Chiefs 'Begging' to trade away #1 pick

[Bodha]

per Rotoworld report. Whether or not theres any truth to it, lets talk.


Would you trade, say our 3rd and 6th for the #1 pick and Luke Joeckle?


IMO, Id make that trade. Wed have an elite LT, we solve our Guard issue with Levi, and wed take the best pass rusher in the 2nd round.


We really dont have that many needs. T, G, S, OLB, TE. The Joeckle pick takes care of 2 (T and G) and so wed have 4 picks to use on S, OLB and TE.


I say take the elite player, rather than have more picks for 50/50 guys. LT is right up there with QB as one of the hardest positions to lock down. Wed have a shot at doing that. I say do it.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

I agree with your points but theres just not a huge difference between the level of talent for picks 1-15. The OL prospects are interchangable, as well as the pass rushers. Its basically blondes or brunettes first 15 picks...

 

[Bodha]

I agree with your points but theres just not a huge difference between the level of talent for picks 1-15. The OL prospects are interchangable, as well as the pass rushers. Its basically blondes or brunettes first 15 picks...

?

I couldnt disagree more. Joeckle and Fisher are top LTs. Lane Johnson would be behind Kalil, Reiff and Glenn last year. HUGE drop.


Joeckle, Fisher and Warmack are the elite talents in this draft. In all likelihood, Joeckle and Fisher will be gone by 7. Warmack should be the pick, but we can bet on the Cards reaching on Lane Johnson instead.

By taking Joeckle, you take a guaranteed elite LT. By staying at 7, you can only hope Fisher falls to you (which he probably wont). Otherwise you reach on Johnson whos not half the talent of Joeckle.

 

[binkar]

?

I couldnt disagree more. Joeckle and Fisher are top LTs. Lane Johnson would be behind Kalil, Reiff and Glenn last year. HUGE drop.


Joeckle, Fisher and Warmack are the elite talents in this draft. In all likelihood, Joeckle and Fisher will be gone by 7. Warmack should be the pick, but we can bet on the Cards reaching on Lane Johnson instead.

By taking Joeckle, you take a guaranteed elite LT. By staying at 7, you can only hope Fisher falls to you (which he probably wont). Otherwise you reach on Johnson whos not half the talent of Joeckle.

I strongly disagree that he would have been graded behind Reiff and Glenn.

 

[Snakester]

Yea I make that trade every day and twice on Sunday. Get the franchise LT and trade up again to get Jarvis Jones if he falls in the draft like many are saying.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

?

I couldnt disagree more. Joeckle and Fisher are top LTs. Lane Johnson would be behind Kalil, Reiff and Glenn last year. HUGE drop.


Joeckle, Fisher and Warmack are the elite talents in this draft. In all likelihood, Joeckle and Fisher will be gone by 7. Warmack should be the pick, but we can bet on the Cards reaching on Lane Johnson instead.

By taking Joeckle, you take a guaranteed elite LT. By staying at 7, you can only hope Fisher falls to you (which he probably wont). Otherwise you reach on Johnson whos not half the talent of Joeckle.

Agreed, but this draft has more positions than OL. Is there a clear cut number 1 DE/OLB? Over the last couple months ive seen a game of musical chairs with regards to highest rated. Ive seen Luteuili (w/e), Jarvis, Werner, Jordan, Floyd, etc. all listed as the top defensive prospect.

Also, you say there s a drop off after Joeckel, Fischer, and Warmack. I think the general consensus is at least one of them will be availible at #7. Are any of them really a bad pick? Why trade up to grab the other guy of same caliber?

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Yea I make that trade every day and twice on Sunday. Get the franchise LT and trade up again to get Jarvis Jones if he falls in the draft like many are saying.

Disagree with trading up to number 1. That makes no sense to me. I do like the idea of trading up for Jarvis however. If he is sitting there at 25 or so, Cards should be throwing their 2nd and 3rd at the trade partner.

 

[Buckybird]

Unless there's a franchise QB at the top of this draft I don't know about, any trade to get the #1 pick would be the dumbest trade ever!!!

 

[BACH]

I strongly disagree that he would have been graded behind Reiff and Glenn.

Agree.

Joeckle and Fisher are comparable to Kalil. Johnson is a step behind, but WAAAAAY ahead of Reiff and Glenn.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In a normal draft year, Joeckle is the only OL with a top 10 grade. But this isn't a normal draft year. I would consider the trade but I don't know if KC would accept that offer. I doubt they would.

As for Lane Johnson, as little as 6 weeks ago he was considered a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Then he ran a sub 4.8 40. Big deal. If you grade your OT's on 40 times then your in trouble.

I think it was Bruce Armstrong a few years back that ran about a 4.65 40 at 300+ pounds and athletically tested off the charts. Has he ever been heard from in the NFL?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

?

I couldnt disagree more. Joeckle and Fisher are top LTs. Lane Johnson would be behind Kalil, Reiff and Glenn last year. HUGE drop.


Joeckle, Fisher and Warmack are the elite talents in this draft. In all likelihood, Joeckle and Fisher will be gone by 7. Warmack should be the pick, but we can bet on the Cards reaching on Lane Johnson instead.

By taking Joeckle, you take a guaranteed elite LT. By staying at 7, you can only hope Fisher falls to you (which he probably wont). Otherwise you reach on Johnson whos not half the talent of Joeckle.

I can tell by your comments you havent actually watched Johnson play oor done anyting beyond surface analysis on this subject. Because he is the third tackle rated doesnt make it a "Levi" situation.

This isn't done in a vacum. This is a good year for tackles. Some have Johnson in the top 5 prospects overall.

 

[Dr. Jones]

In a normal draft year, Joeckle is the only OL with a top 10 grade. But this isn't a normal draft year. I would consider the trade but I don't know if KC would accept that offer. I doubt they would.

As for Lane Johnson, as little as 6 weeks ago he was considered a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Then he ran a sub 4.8 40. Big deal. If you grade your OT's on 40 times then your in trouble.

I think it was Bruce Armstrong a few years back that ran about a 4.65 40 at 300+ pounds and athletically tested off the charts. Has he ever been heard from in the NFL?

Agreed. LJ has bust written all over him.

Sent from my RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk II

 

[GuernseyCard]

Agreed. LJ has bust written all over him.

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Really?

There are talking heads after talking heads with football pedigrees on the NFL Network who project that Lane Johnson will prove to be the best LT out of this class.

 

[BW52]

In a normal draft year, Joeckle is the only OL with a top 10 grade. But this isn't a normal draft year. I would consider the trade but I don't know if KC would accept that offer. I doubt they would.

As for Lane Johnson, as little as 6 weeks ago he was considered a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Then he ran a sub 4.8 40. Big deal. If you grade your OT's on 40 times then your in trouble.

I think it was Bruce Armstrong a few years back that ran about a 4.65 40 at 300+ pounds and athletically tested off the charts. Has he ever been heard from in the NFL?

Bruce Armstrong the OT from University of Louisville who was a 6 time Pro-Bowl tackle and had his number retired by the Patriots.He was a former TE who was converted to offensive tackle in College.That Bruce Armstrong.If the Cards got 6 Pro-Bowls out of the entire O-line we would be happy.

 

[JeffGollin]

First of all, I don't go near Andy Reid (who should have coined the motto: "PT Barnum was right"). I wouldn't phone, fax, e-mail or Twitter him, and I sure as hell wouldn't answer his phone calls, faxes or e-mails or Twitters.

Second - Bodha - Am I reading that the trade you are proposing wouldn't involve swapping their #1 for our #7? (We'd just give up our #69 and #103)? Really? I don't have my trusty Trade Value Chart handy, but I don't think the two picks would come close to to equalling #7 for #1.

If KC, in fact, was that desperate, other NFL teams would leap on those terms and the marketplace would outcompete us to move up to #1.

Thirdly, we have now heard passionate commentary on this board that Lane Johnson will absolutely, positively turn out to be a bust. Guernsey and Bach passionately disagree. Conclusion - Passion does not = Expertise.

 

[BW52]

I don`t understand the hate for Lane Johnson.The kid has been playing OT for 2 years only and is now considered by many "experts" good enough to be 1st round matierial and the same experts think LJ has a huge upside because of his althletic ability and work ethic.Yet some of the people bashing LJ will go all in for drafting Ziggy Ansah for DE who is as raw a project as is who has a bigger chance to be a flop.What`s the reasoning behind this?

 

[WildBB]

per Rotoworld report. Whether or not theres any truth to it, lets talk.


Would you trade, say our 3rd and 6th for the #1 pick and Luke Joeckle?


IMO, Id make that trade. Wed have an elite LT, we solve our Guard issue with Levi, and wed take the best pass rusher in the 2nd round.


We really dont have that many needs. T, G, S, OLB, TE. The Joeckle pick takes care of 2 (T and G) and so wed have 4 picks to use on S, OLB and TE.


I say take the elite player, rather than have more picks for 50/50 guys. LT is right up there with QB as one of the hardest positions to lock down. Wed have a shot at doing that. I say do it.

Interesting, but I doubt a 1,3,6 does it. More like a 1,3,4 minimum. If one of those 3rd or 4ths could be tranferred to next yr. then I'd probably do it. But not any more than that.

 

[WildBB]

I don`t understand the hate for Lane Johnson.The kid has been playing OT for 2 years only and is now considered by many "experts" good enough to be 1st round matierial and the same experts think LJ has a huge upside because of his althletic ability and work ethic.Yet some of the people bashing LJ will go all in for drafting Ziggy Ansah for DE who is as raw a project as is who has a bigger chance to be a flop.What`s the reasoning behind this?

Exactely. I think Anzah would contribute right away in some form. LJ maybe not so much right away. But in a yr (or less) , wow, watch out!

 

[Chopper0080]

If I am sold on Joeckel as a premier LT prospect in the NFL and all it costs is a 3rd and a 6th, sure I would trade up. I am not quite that sold on Joeckel personally, but i haven't watched enough film to make that determination. I think he will be a good player, but I haven't seen enough to determine if he is a Joe Thomas level prospect. The reason I consider the trade is because it is a fairly weak draft class. Is it better to take Warmack/Johnson/Cooper and a player like Jaime Collins/Travis Kelce/Barrett Jones rather than Luke Joeckel? I would think so if I believed Joeckel was head and shoulders above the other LT prospects.

That being said, I don't believe KC would take that deal.

 

[Jim Otis]

The WOW!!! factor , or the lack there of is the dilema KC finds itself . Looking at film on Joeckel and Fisher , the names Joe Thomas --- Jake Long do not jump out there . This is a weird draft , the closest player to a WOW factor (most likely to succeed) in my opinion is the guard Warmack . So, I guess the question is , if KC would trade out for our #1 and a ham sandwich , who would we select ???

 

[Totally_Red]

There's a reason Andy Reid wants to trade out of #1 overall. There's also a reason he probably won't be able to.

 

[Mitch]

There's a reason Andy Reid wants to trade out of #1 overall. There's also a reason he probably won't be able to.

Trading with Andy Reid is like fouling the dribbler with 1 second on the shot clock in a tie game with both teams in the double bonus.

If he gets bailed out of this one...oh, man.

But, he likely will---after the top three tackles, the rest are not plug and play options, so a team left out of the top three like the Dolphins or Chargers might be desperate enough to give up a second rounder.

 

[Southpaw]

per Rotoworld report. Whether or not theres any truth to it, lets talk.


Would you trade, say our 3rd and 6th for the #1 pick and Luke Joeckle?

Why would the Chiefs take a 3rd rounder and a 6th rounder for the #1 pick in the draft?

 

[Jetstream Green]

There is no franchise QB in this draft, trading for that number one would be ULTRA stupid

 

[bankybruce]

Why would the Chiefs take a 3rd rounder and a 6th rounder for the #1 pick in the draft?

I think he means our #1 and those other two picks.

http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm

According to that site, if we gave up picks #7, 69 and 176 for the #1 pick, we are giving up 1965 points of value for 1889 points. Now, since the first overall pick in this draft does not have the value of years past, I think we lose a lot more value. I would not do that trade.


Believe it or not, just swapping out firsts and just giving #69 would be a pretty even match