Choosing Sides

[Buckybird]

So far 75% out of 22000+ votes are in favor of the Owners or think both sides suck. Meaning out of 22000+ votes only 25% are in the corner of the players.

Joe, I'm not shocked at all by those results. I've been listening to Sirius radio all day & it's about 60% for the owners. Almost everyone in America & many other countries are making financial sacrifies & I would almost bet that outside of sports 98% of people aren't getting an annual increases in pay. The players have zero financial risk in what's taking place between them & the owners.

 

[40yearfan]

Joe, I'm not shocked at all by those results. I've been listening to Sirius radio all day & it's about 60% for the owners. Almost everyone in America & many other countries are making financial sacrifies & I would almost bet that outside of sports 98% of people aren't getting an annual increases in pay. The players have zero financial risk in what's taking place between them & the owners.

Great point Bb. If the players want to share in the wealth, they should also be willing to share in the risk. Give them a decent salary, but have a bonus arrangement where they get more for every game they win, but they have to win at least 8 games before the bonus kicks in. Or something like that.

 

[Chopper0080]

Great point Bb. If the players want to share in the wealth, they should also be willing to share in the risk. Give them a decent salary, but have a bonus arrangement where they get more for every game they win, but they have to win at least 8 games before the bonus kicks in. Or something like that.

This is what pissed me off most about the Michael Vick ruling. The Falcons invest millions of dollars into him, and when HE screws up and goes to prison, he isn't responsible to pay that money back.

The players can't have it both ways. They can't argue for equal compensation when they won't even police their own players and hold them responsible for their stupid decisions.

 

[NJCardFan]

The whole crux of the issue around full disclosue is... The owners want back an additional $1B from the players saying it's for operating margin, yet won't show the financials substantiating why they need it. That's bull$hit any way you slice it.

If my company decided to reduce everyone's payroll without a good / trustworthy explanation and proof, I guarantee most folks would either file suit or leave the firm. The difference is, NFL players have nowhere else to go. IMHO what the players are asking for is entirely reasonable.

Untrue. There is the UFL, Arena Football League, CFL, and the upcoming USFL reboot. Of course the money they were making won't be there, however, they do have options to play elsewhere.

 

[ajcardfan]

This is what pissed me off most about the Michael Vick ruling. The Falcons invest millions of dollars into him, and when HE screws up and goes to prison, he isn't responsible to pay that money back.

The players can't have it both ways. They can't argue for equal compensation when they won't even police their own players and hold them responsible for their stupid decisions.

Yet the NFL owners, unlike MLB and the NBA, can cut a guy at the drop of a hat and be off the hook for the balance of their contract. Personally, I've often wondered why this couldn't be a point of compromise. Seems to me the players would maybe take less money if they knew whatever they get in a contract was guaranteed like in other pro sports.

 

[slanidrac16]

Yet the NFL owners, unlike MLB and the NBA, can cut a guy at the drop of a hat and be off the hook for the balance of their contract. Personally, I've often wondered why this couldn't be a point of compromise. Seems to me the players would maybe take less money if they knew whatever they get in a contract was guaranteed like in other pro sports.

That's why "signing bonus" and " roster bonuses" are the biggest part of players contracts. If contracts were guaranteed the signing bonus would be dramatically reduced.

 

[slanidrac16]

As long as they don't break the law as it pertains to protected groups the company doesn't have to justify a damn thing. You can certainly quit if you want but filing suit for what?

I don't claim to be a lawyer or an expert on this but by the player's decertifying I believe it strips away the antitrust benefits of the league.

 

[ARodg]

I don't claim to be a lawyer or an expert on this but by the player's decertifying I believe it strips away the antitrust benefits of the league.

The league is exempt from Anti Trust laws as long as they have a contract with the Players Union. If the Players Union decertifies than that contract is no longer valid.

 

[ajcardfan]

That's why "signing bonus" and " roster bonuses" are the biggest part of players contracts. If contracts were guaranteed the signing bonus would be dramatically reduced.

Yeah, but if my kid had a choice, and I had any say in it, I'd tell him he'd be a fool to pick the NFL over MLB. As it stands now. Many times NFL players are cut because they are due roster bonuses.

 

[slanidrac16]

Yeah, but if my kid had a choice, and I had any say in it, I'd tell him he'd be a fool to pick the NFL over MLB. As it stands now. Many times NFL players are cut because they are due roster bonuses.

Won't get an argument from me. I'll never understand how two parties can enter a contractual agreemant where one can simply opt out. It befuddles me the NFLPA would have ever agreed to that.

 

[Buckybird]

Won't get an argument from me. I'll never understand how two parties can enter a contractual agreemant where one can simply opt out. It befuddles me the NFLPA would have ever agreed to that.

From my understanding the players had the same option. I agree though, you would think both sides shouldn't be able to get out for the length of an agreement.

 

[john h]

Owner's Books

I don't really think as fans we care as much about the sides as we do the restoration of the game but I have to admit I did feel like the owners had a stronger position and given their business savy I expected more from them. They have to be shocked at how boldly and sophisticated the NFLPA has played this. They really took the momentum and seem to be playing for keeps. They won't bend until they get access to financials and seemed to know they might miss some games to get there. From what I read it sounds like the NFL caved on everything but the rookie cap and even at half the money they wanted they still couldn't budge the union on the financial transperency issue. I think they have so much confidence in their track record in court they think they are invinvable. It will be interesting to see who blinks first. On one hand you have the owners who may be like the kid who is caught steeling and is going to die on the hill lying about it. If they have been cooking the books and transperency will reveal where all the bodies are they will never want those financials revealed.

The players on the other hand only have so much money and in some cases losing a full year would kill some of the guys who are getting up there in age. I expect this to be long and ugly and the reterick spilled by both sides will take years to clean up - well after the resolution I suspect there will be hard feelings.

I would like to see the Cards financials as much as anyone, however I do not think any privately owned business should be forced to open it's books other than for some illegal activity. There is something about that which just does not seem right and sticks in my throat. I have no right and expect no right to see my employers books so I can then demand he pay me more. He owns the company, he takes the risk, I can quit if I want to, I knew what my employment terms were when I signed on. That sure does not give me the right to delve into his personal and private business and life anymore than asking him about his sex life. There are some things that I think you have to take a stand on and I am with the owners on this. The players could conceivable all quit and form their own league at some point if they are that unhappy. This is not the 1920's or 1930's when workers were forced to work in squalid conditions and under payed. Today the workers have in some cases forced their companies out of business. GM once the icon of the auto industry is now a skeleton of its former self all because the Union forced them into an untenable financial saturation which you and I are now paying for. We even own part of GM as does the Union that drove them out of business.

There is also something inherently wrong with billionaires arguing with multi millionaires over who gets the most money. The world is upside down. Shame shame. May the pox be on both your doors. The players made the first move by de-certifying and quit negotiations so I now hold them responsible for the consequences.

 

[chickenhead]

I have no problem not really choosing sides here. I understand the players' health risks and the lack of guaranteed contracts. I understand the owners' financial risk. But in the end it's two sides competing for slices of a large revenue pie. The pie is there, and once you're part of the situation it's easy to view it as zero-sum.

Both sides now risk the losing the attention of their market. I'm sure the league will come back strong, but there will be a percentage of people and smaller companies deciding whether to go back to the NFL versus renewing tickets to another league they've been patronizing in the interim.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I would like to see the Cards financials as much as anyone, however I do not think any privately owned business should be forced to open it's books other than for some illegal activity. There is something about that which just does not seem right and sticks in my throat. I have no right and expect no right to see my employers books so I can then demand he pay me more. He owns the company, he takes the risk, I can quit if I want to, I knew what my employment terms were when I signed on. That sure does not give me the right to delve into his personal and private business and life anymore than asking him about his sex life. There are some things that I think you have to take a stand on and I am with the owners on this. The players could conceivable all quit and form their own league at some point if they are that unhappy. This is not the 1920's or 1930's when workers were forced to work in squalid conditions and under payed. Today the workers have in some cases forced their companies out of business. GM once the icon of the auto industry is now a skeleton of its former self all because the Union forced them into an untenable financial saturation which you and I are now paying for. We even own part of GM as does the Union that drove them out of business.

There is also something inherently wrong with billionaires arguing with multi millionaires over who gets the most money. The world is upside down. Shame shame. May the pox be on both your doors. The players made the first move by de-certifying and quit negotiations so I now hold them responsible for the consequences.

Well, the owners are not standing on the strict ceremony on all of this, most of which I agree with you on. They, in their 8 point plan, have offered third party auditing with a report to then be given to the players.

This way retains privacy and secrecy while giving the players information based on predetermined terms of reference. In other words they get audited figures on how much team "a" or "b" pays its Public Relations staff, for example - but do not get to see the details of the PR Director's personal service contract, which, in fact, may be protected under Privacy Laws.