Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

[SECTION 11]

What, if anything, does it say about our new o-line coach when one his guys doesn't even give us a visit?

Somebody tell me some good news here.

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
What, if anything, does it say about our new o-line coach when one his guys doesn't even give us a visit?

Somebody tell me some good news here.

I got good news. I have dropped 4 lbs since last week. I didn't call Geico. Spring training is underway. Maybe we can sweep this whole FA thing under the carpet.....

 

[azdad1978]

Question is did Graves even called his agent to scheduled a visit?

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by azdad1978
Question is did Graves even called his agent to scheduled a visit?

Yes, in fact he was scheduled to visit on Saturday.....

I still can't figure why people are too impulsive to judge.... Graves confirmed to Mike Jurecki that he had contacted 15-20 FAs to come in for a visit, but it's not if as though all willingly accept the invite.... I hate to constantly repeat this refrain, but a lot more goes on behind the scenes than most of us are privy to know....Not all is reported to the media and unfortunately sometimes a lot is beyond ones control....

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
contacted 15-20 FAs to come in for a visit

Maybe that's the problem.

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
Yes, in fact he was scheduled to visit on Saturday.....

I still can't figure why people are too impulsive to judge.... Graves confirmed to Mike Jurecki that he had contacted 15-20 FAs to come in for a visit, but it's not if as though all willingly accept the invite.... I hate to constantly repeat this refrain, but a lot more goes on behind the scenes than most of us are privy to know....Not all is reported to the media and unfortunately sometimes a lot is beyond ones control....

Why are we impulsive to judge? Cause the fact that all the good FA are signing elsewhere and we are just sitting here tapping our fingers!!! So lets bring in less talented FA to add to our Less talented team so we can be competive. Coaching can only get you somewhere but in the end you still need talent!!!!

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Maybe that's the problem.

How so? He confirmed 15-20, but perhaps there's several others that he didn't mentioned....The fact is, it some times best to operate in a covert manner, not to "tip your hat" sorta speak.....
That could give a team more leverage over others and not cause any major bidding wars to transpire......

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
What, if anything, does it say about our new o-line coach when one his guys doesn't even give us a visit?

Somebody tell me some good news here.

I don't think it means anything...well maybe it does mean a little something. Villarial just fell into a comfort zone in BUF and had a good deal on the table and grabbed it. I can't fault him for that. I think where it may mean something is that he didn't think enough of his old coach to actually come out and give a look/see at the Cards but that is simply me seeing the darkness of this probably.

Louie, I would only point out one thing and that is this: It is all fine and good Graves contacted 15-20 FAs for visits...and by the looks of it he had announced 7 visits out of the deal...but while he was calling some other teams were proactive and signing.

Frankly, even though I am a bit discouraged by the lack of guts by Graves, I never really expected the Cards to be players yesterday...or today...or likely even tomorrow. The article the other day made it clear Graves was going to be deliberate and they had little intention of going after any real elite players. He is looking for more belly players ("role players") and he will be finding those after all the chaos around the playmakers dies down.

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
How so? He confirmed 15-20, but perhaps there's several others that he didn't mentioned....The fact is, it some times best to operate in a covert manner, not to "tip your hat" sorta speak.....
That could give a team more leverage over others and not cause any major bidding wars to transpire......

Not to busrt your bubble there but are we really gonna sign 15-20 FA? Contact the guys you want to sign and give them a deal, its not rocket science.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by azdad1978
Why are we impulsive to judge? Cause the fact that all the good FA are signing elsewhere and we are just sitting here tapping our fingers!!! So lets bring in less talented FA to add to our Less talented team so we can be competive. Coaching can only get you somewhere but in the end you still need talent!!!!

Does Jevon Kearse really warrant an 8-year deal? I wouldnt be completely shocked that he gets injured w/in the first 2-yrs and retires.....

Graves mentioned that he was in contact w/Robaire Smith, however, there's a chance that him and his agent thought it was their best interest for whatever reason not to come out here... It takes both sides to mutually agree for anything to materialize....

A few other players who signed yesterday also had some major character issues or probably performed better because they had better quality players surrounding them.....Also, Kearse for example, the amount of money he signed for could be easily alloted for the Cardinals to spread the money around to fill multiple needs.....

I dont mean to seem like a Graves apologist, but let's reserve judgment for at least another wk or 2, then we'll have a better way of gauging their direction......

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by azdad1978
Not to busrt your bubble there but are we really gonna sign 15-20 FA? Contact the guys you want to sign and give them a deal, its not rocket science.

I know that, but most of those players are contingency plans if the ones they fully desire don't pan out.....

 

[vikesfan]

It means Buffalo tampered and the fix was in. Anyone notice they released Ruben Brown before Villarial signed. Folks guys who go on the first day, their deals were set up before the first day. Except Robaire that was worked out by an aggressive HOU team by working all night.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by AZCB34
I
Louie, I would only point out one thing and that is this: It is all fine and good Graves contacted 15-20 FAs for visits...and by the looks of it he had announced 7 visits out of the deal...but while he was calling some other teams were proactive and signing.

Frankly, even though I am a bit discouraged by the lack of guts by Graves, I never really expected the Cards to be players yesterday...or today...or likely even tomorrow. The article the other day made it clear Graves was going to be deliberate and they had little intention of going after any real elite players. He is looking for more belly players ("role players") and he will be finding those after all the chaos around the playmakers dies down.

They could have possibly wanted for some of those FAs to come for an early visit, but were declined in the process..... It's not like it is mandatory for a player/agent to accept an invite.......

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
Does Jevon Kearse really warrant an 8-year deal? I wouldnt be completely shocked that he gets injured w/in the first 2-yrs and retires.....

Graves mentioned that he was in contact w/Robaire Smith, however, there's a chance that him and his agent thought it was their best interest for whatever reason not to come out here... It takes both sides to mutually agree for anything to materialize....

A few other players who signed yesterday also had some major character issues or probably performed better because they had better quality players surrounding them.....Also, Kearse for example, the amount of money he signed for could be easily alloted for the Cardinals to spread the money around to fill multiple needs.....

I dont mean to seem like a Graves apologist, but let's reserve judgment for at least another wk or 2, then we'll have a better way of gauging their direction......

Dude I don't want Kearse big time deal killing our cap but players like Smith, Villareal and Berry are signing elsewhere and they are not big time cap killers. Like I said sign some talented players but don't sign less talent players just for the sake of telling us fans "hey we sign this player" but they would not be starting or even see the field.

 

[AZCB34]

Re: Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
They could have possibly wanted for some of those FAs to come for an early visit, but were declined in the process..... It's not like it is mandatory for a player/agent to accept an invite.......

I understand what you are saying but other teams had guys in yesterday and the Cards couldn't even muster a visit before tomorrow...not one??

Again, I had low expectations yesterday...and today...but there is something basically missing here.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by azdad1978
Dude I don't want Kearse big time deal killing our cap but players like Smith, Villareal and Berry are signing elsewhere and they are not big time cap killers. Like I said sign some talented players but don't sign less talent players just for the sake of telling us fans "hey we sign this player" but they would not be starting or even see the field.

Is it the Cardinals fault that Berry apparently has always clamoured to be a Cowboy? That is beyond their control at this point.....

They did contact Smith, but it seems more than likely that either him and his agent had no intentions to come in.....

Villareal and his agent probably figured that they'd get more money in Buffalo than he would here......

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by AZCB34
I understand what you are saying but other teams had guys in yesterday and the Cards couldn't even muster a visit before tomorrow...not one??

Again, I had low expectations yesterday...and today...but there is something basically missing here.

What if someone did come in, but it wasnt reported? I know perhaps I'm now resorting to extremes to support my claim, but there's always more than meets the eye.....

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
Villareal and his agent probably figured that they'd get more money in Buffalo than he would here......

And it comes back to sometimes you have to take the risk and maybe overpay a guy. Villarial would have been worth it to overpay a bit to get here. He is a very good G. Graves clearly isn;t willing...at least at this point...to take the necessary risks to improve this team. Or maybe put differently, he isn;t willing to take a risk without careful deliberation.

I feel I must place my disclaimer in again: My expectations for the Cards early in the process were low based solely on Graves comments a couple days ago. It was clear he was not going to take any risks...but I believe that is not only the wrong approach but an approach that will have him back as contract negotiator and Green as GM.

 

[azdad1978]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
Is it the Cardinals fault that Berry apparently has always clamoured to be a Cowboy? That is beyond their control at this point.....

They did contact Smith, but it seems more than likely that either him and his agent had no intentions to come in.....

Villareal and his agent probably figured that they'd get more money in Buffalo than he would here......

Its ok to live to live in a coolaid world once in a while but dude wake up. The draft won't fix this team lack of talent but signing a couple of good FA will.

 

[AZCB34]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
What if someone did come in, but it wasnt reported? I know perhaps I'm now resorting to extremes to support my claim, but there's always more than meets the eye.....

Possible but highly unlikely since it would have behooved the Cards to announce it to the local media and fans...to get that goob vibe going amongst the populace.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by AZCB34
And it comes back to sometimes you have to take the risk and maybe overpay a guy. Villarial would have been worth it to overpay a bit to get here. He is a very good G. Graves clearly isn;t willing...at least at this point...to take the necessary risks to improve this team. Or maybe put differently, he isn;t willing to take a risk without careful deliberation.

I feel I must place my disclaimer in again: My expectations for the Cards early in the process were low based solely on Graves comments a couple days ago. It was clear he was not going to take any risks...but I believe that is not only the wrong approach but an approach that will have him back as contract negotiator and Green as GM.

I still feel that Graves is too "gun-shy" to take many risks after the Starks debacle.....

Perhaps they will select a Guard of equal or better talent in the draft.....

I must admit though, if none of these players who are coming in over the next couple days don't sign before they leave, then there is a need to be concerned.......

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by azdad1978
Its ok to live to live in a coolaid world once in a while but dude wake up. The draft won't fix this team lack of talent but signing a couple of good FA will.

Let's just save this discussion until either after this coming weekend or until the "1st wave" of FA is over....Then we'll truly be able to judge Graves.....

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
I still feel that Graves is too "gun-shy" to take many risks after the Starks debacle.....

Perhaps they will select a Guard of equal or better talent in the draft.....

I must admit though, if none of these players who are coming in over the next couple days don't sign before they leave, then there is a need to be concerned.......

The disappointing thing though is that I would prefer that the G thing was taken care of so the Cards wouldn't have to use a precious pick filling a hole that, with a little more aggressiveness, could have been filled yesterday.

With the exception of Wistrom maybe, there is no incentive for any of the other players being brought in to sign right away since most are tier 2 guys and I believe they are more likely to play the field to get the most money possible.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by AZCB34
Possible but highly unlikely since it would have behooved the Cards to announce it to the local media and fans...to get that goob vibe going amongst the populace.

Okay, I definitely have to agree with your point there, but some times announcing all or most of your strategies to the media can ultimately come back to haunt one.....

If a team revealed all their targets, that could really cause that player's asking price to be driven through the roof....I guess it's best to just be patient at this time.....

I'm not against being proactive whatsoever, but signing someone for the sake of signing could spell a teams doom.....

 

[Northern Card]

Re: Re: Chris Villarreal and Bob Wylie

Originally posted by AZCB34
I don't think it means anything...well maybe it does mean a little something. Villarial just fell into a comfort zone in BUF and had a good deal on the table and grabbed it. I can't fault him for that. I think where it may mean something is that he didn't think enough of his old coach to actually come out and give a look/see at the Cards but that is simply me seeing the darkness of this probably.

Louie, I would only point out one thing and that is this: It is all fine and good Graves contacted 15-20 FAs for visits...and by the looks of it he had announced 7 visits out of the deal...but while he was calling some other teams were proactive and signing.

Frankly, even though I am a bit discouraged by the lack of guts by Graves, I never really expected the Cards to be players yesterday...or today...or likely even tomorrow. The article the other day made it clear Graves was going to be deliberate and they had little intention of going after any real elite players. He is looking for more belly players ("role players") and he will be finding those after all the chaos around the playmakers dies down.

It's simple. Like any true blue football player worth his salt, he prefers to play in the rain, sleet, cold and snow!