Chriss???

[slinslin]

They have child labor laws in Europe too. The go around is that those kids are in "academies", it's a school... ran by a club. They learn reading, writing, math... and play a lot of sports.

Those are not "academies" those are academies.

They are full fledged schools with teachers just like any other school. The difference is that their schedule revolves around being able to practice daily and accomodate youth tournaments and such and a lot of those kids live there.

 

[Phrazbit]

Those are not "academies" those are academies.

They are full fledged schools with teachers just like any other school. The difference is that their schedule revolves around being able to practice daily and accomodate youth tournaments and such and a lot of those kids live there.

I'm not trying to imply the US is high and mighty in this instance, I promise you that.

The US has achademies too, that you can only get into if your athletically gifted, if you don't preform on the field they dump you... on top of it we've got college sports, which at the highest levels of football and basketball are as corrupt as anything imaginable (well... expect maybe boxing... and FIFA) and provide a free minor league system to the pro clubs.

I don't think one system is better than another, other than maybe America's being more complex because of the blurring of amateur and professional and the laws involving Title 9.

 

[Hoop Head]

Chriss is the dumb one? Listen to his interviews.

Also Chriss is not the one who passes up a wide open layup when he is alone under the basket for a 3pt shot.

Also Bender has the highest turnover% on the Suns behind only Chandler, Payton and Monroe which is astounding considering 99% of his offense consists of just standing on the 3pt line.
Seems like strong indication to me that Bender is the dumb one.

The whole Bender is a smart player, Chriss is a dumb player is a narrative that is completely driven by prejudice.

You always put down Bender and that's fine but it's not always Chriss vs Bender though. Chriss hasn't shown much to write home about. When you try propping Chriss up by comparing him to Bender you're only polishing the turd that is Chriss. Neither are very good.

What's the excuse for Chriss poor attitude last season, that ended up leading to a internal suspension being handed out?

Do you acknowledge he showed up out of shape?

What about the missed dunk attempts?

He led the league in missed dunks by a mile. It even came to the point that some writers did stories on it and Chriss' teammates said they'd quit throwing alley-oop passes to him.

 

[Covert Rain]

The whole Bender is a smart player, Chriss is a dumb player is a narrative that is completely driven by prejudice.

I am with you as far as Bender vs Chriss. But the statement above is stupid. Especially with many of the posters here.

No it’s not driven by prejudice. Both players have shown little. It’s suck 1A vs suck 1B. So the fact they are so close means people can have an opinion one way or the other.

Chris’s is slightly better but slightly. Stick to the stats vs making a dumb comment that groups all the posters here by calling them prejudice.

 

[sunsfan88]

What's the excuse for Chriss poor attitude last season, that ended up leading to a internal suspension being handed out?

Do you acknowledge he showed up out of shape?

What about the missed dunk attempts?

He led the league in missed dunks by a mile. It even came to the point that some writers did stories on it and Chriss' teammates said they'd quit throwing alley-oop passes to him.

Don’t forget Chriss techs either. Without even lookin I’m sure Chriss has many more techs than Bender does.

 

[slinslin]

Don’t forget Chriss techs either. Without even lookin I’m sure Chriss has many more techs than Bender does.

And Draymond Green is 2nd in the league in technical fouls. Kevin Durant is 3rd in the league in technical fouls tied with Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin .. Chris Paul is 6th.



Devin Booker, TJ Warren and Josh Jackson lead the Suns with 9 each. Chriss had 8.

That argument proves nothing.

 

[slinslin]

I am with you as far as Bender vs Chriss. But the statement above is stupid. Especially with many of the posters here.

No it’s not driven by prejudice. Both players have shown little. It’s suck 1A vs suck 1B. So the fact they are so close means people can have an opinion one way or the other.

Chris’s is slightly better but slightly. Stick to the stats vs making a dumb comment that groups all the posters here by calling them prejudice.

You don't think that that narrative is driven by prejudice and their pre-draft reputation which again a lot of people just assume that European players and prospects are high IQ prospects just like they assume they are less athletic.

Because by their play these two years you certainly can't make the case that Bender is a high IQ player or even higher IQ player than Chriss.


And Chriss is better, it is not just slightly.

Chriss is so far a below average power forward in the NBA with stretches where he played above average and stretches where he was bad.

Bender is so far consistently one of the worst players in the league with only a handful of good games.

 

[slinslin]

What about the missed dunk attempts?

He led the league in missed dunks by a mile. It even came to the point that some writers did stories on it and Chriss' teammates said they'd quit throwing alley-oop passes to him.

Missed dunk attempts, great. He is an inexperienced young player. What does that prove anyway? Those missed dunks are already included in his stat sheet.

Bender airballed 3 shots from within 5ft last season and again in summer league against Sacramento or Dallas.

What's the excuse for Chriss poor attitude last season, that ended up leading to a internal suspension being handed out?

Do you acknowledge he showed up out of shape?

The team never released anything about Chriss having a poor attitutde. As far as I remember the internal suspension came from a heated argument with an assistant coach, not for poor attitude.
On the contrary he seemed to work hard to get back in it even when Triano inexplicably benched him shortly after his best stretch for Bender who did nothing.

And as far as out of shape is concerned. The Suns wanted him to bulk up to play center, I'll chalk that up to a 19 year old not knowing how to handle an offseason and weight program.

 

[Hoop Head]

And Draymond Green is 2nd in the league in technical fouls. Kevin Durant is 3rd in the league in technical fouls tied with Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin .. Chris Paul is 6th.



Devin Booker, TJ Warren and Josh Jackson lead the Suns with 9 each. Chriss had 8.

That argument proves nothing.

It proves that Chriss managed to rack up a lot more despite playing much less than the others and it can also go towards the bad attitude argument. The Morrii led the team in techs frequently, would you say either of them had good attitudes?

Missed dunk attempts, great. He is an inexperienced young player. What does that prove anyway? Those missed dunks are already included in his stat sheet.

Bender airballed 3 shots from within 5ft last season and again in summer league against Sacramento or Dallas.

This isn't about Bender it's about Chriss. His own teammates don't want to throw him alley oops because he misses dunks so frequently. I can't recall the stat precisely but he was only shooting like 70% on dunks, which is horrible.

The team never released anything about Chriss having a poor attitutde. As far as I remember the internal suspension came from a heated argument with an assistant coach, not for poor attitude.
On the contrary he seemed to work hard to get back in it even when Triano inexplicably benched him shortly after his best stretch for Bender who did nothing.

And as far as out of shape is concerned. The Suns wanted him to bulk up to play center, I'll chalk that up to a 19 year old not knowing how to handle an offseason and weight program.

When a team suspends a player for fighting with a coach then it's safe to say he has an attitude problem. For you to spin it any other way shows you're not willing to objectively look at it and are willing to make excuses for him for anything.

If you watched the games last season you'd see how he frequently pouted. It was mentioned here often, not just in game threads either but when discussing him in general. Maybe the fact that you don't watch games has something to do with why you didn't pick up on it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Missed dunk attempts, great. He is an inexperienced young player. What does that prove anyway? Those missed dunks are already included in his stat sheet.

Bender airballed 3 shots from within 5ft last season and again in summer league against Sacramento or Dallas.



The team never released anything about Chriss having a poor attitutde. As far as I remember the internal suspension came from a heated argument with an assistant coach, not for poor attitude.
On the contrary he seemed to work hard to get back in it even when Triano inexplicably benched him shortly after his best stretch for Bender who did nothing.

And as far as out of shape is concerned. The Suns wanted him to bulk up to play center, I'll chalk that up to a 19 year old not knowing how to handle an offseason and weight program.

Hmmm. I did not get this before. Intense Bender hate and a willingness to explain away all of Chriss’ faults. This post is proof positive.

This is all about a Chriss vs Bender thing with you.

 

[devilalum]

or he might have gotten exposed and not be in the NBA in the first place

Yes, this could have been another possible outcome.

 

[sunsfan88]

And Draymond Green is 2nd in the league in technical fouls. Kevin Durant is 3rd in the league in technical fouls tied with Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin .. Chris Paul is 6th.



Devin Booker, TJ Warren and Josh Jackson lead the Suns with 9 each. Chriss had 8.

That argument proves nothing.

Those guys had the talent to match it/make up for it. That’s the difference.

 

[Hoop Head]

And Draymond Green is 2nd in the league in technical fouls. Kevin Durant is 3rd in the league in technical fouls tied with Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin .. Chris Paul is 6th.



Devin Booker, TJ Warren and Josh Jackson lead the Suns with 9 each. Chriss had 8.

That argument proves nothing.

Booker played in 1865 minutes and is the leader of our team. It's not hard to see why our "star" player would be speaking with refs a lot and lead the team in technicals. They set the tone but they also talk to refs for others.

Warren led the team in minutes played with 2142 and Jackson was 3rd for minutes with 1959 played. All of those guys played at least 300 more minutes than Chriss. That's 10 extra games if you're playing 30 minutes a game, like most starters do.

Chriss played in 1527 minutes, which was 7th on the team, behind the 3 mentioned as well as Bender, Ulis, and Daniels.

 

[SirStefan32]

The only one "prejudiced" here is you, Slin. Basketball IQ is basketball IQ and it knows no nationality, race, or anything like that. If it did, and we were prejudiced, we wouldn't be talking about how high of a basketball IQ guys like Booker and Bridges had.
In general, I suspect that the more athletic someone is, the lower their basketball IQ is because they've been able to coast based on their athleticism. Less athletic players HAD to learn the fundamentals to be able to compete. Note, I said "in general"- there are obvious exceptions. The biggest exception would be the elite players (LeBrons, KDs, Hakeems, etc of the world, who obviously have both), but I think the further down you go in the level of players, the more this is true.

I know you hate Bender, and that's fine, but that's irrelevant to the fact that Chriss has the lowest basketball IQ ever seen in the NBA. He has no understanding of rotations, switching, or anything else. On top of that, he has one of the worst attitudes I have ever seen.

 

[devilalum]

The only one "prejudiced" here is you, Slin. Basketball IQ is basketball IQ and it knows no nationality, race, or anything like that. If it did, and we were prejudiced, we wouldn't be talking about how high of a basketball IQ guys like Booker and Bridges had.
In general, I suspect that the more athletic someone is, the lower their basketball IQ is because they've been able to coast based on their athleticism. Less athletic players HAD to learn the fundamentals to be able to compete. Note, I said "in general"- there are obvious exceptions. The biggest exception would be the elite players (LeBrons, KDs, Hakeems, etc of the world, who obviously have both), but I think the further down you go in the level of players, the more this is true.

I know you hate Bender, and that's fine, but that's irrelevant to the fact that Chriss has the lowest basketball IQ ever seen in the NBA. He has no understanding of rotations, switching, or anything else. On top of that, he has one of the worst attitudes I have ever seen.

There's another attribute that is similar to the "Basketball IQ" factor. I don't know what to call it but some guys seem to have ice water in their veins and others always seem to be in a constant state of panic. Booker- ice, Bender - panic.

 

[AZCrazy]

One more reason to get the one-and-done problem solved. These guys needed college ball in the worst way. They came out in a blind panic to make money. The team drafted them for the same reason on a wing and a prayer.

 

[Finito]

It's his attitude he actually had a really promising rookie year and then came into summer league fat and just thought it should all be handed to him.

 

[devilalum]

It's his attitude he actually had a really promising rookie year and then came into summer league fat and just thought it should all be handed to him.

I agree, that's never a good sign. Players that don't take care of themselves physically rarely have good careers. Geez, have some self respect.

 

[SirStefan32]

There's another attribute that is similar to the "Basketball IQ" factor. I don't know what to call it but some guys seem to have ice water in their veins and others always seem to be in a constant state of panic. Booker- ice, Bender - panic.

Very true.

EDIT: Can anyone think of any examples of someone going from "panic" to "ice"? Maybe not "ice" but to "pretty confident."

 

[Hoop Head]

One more reason to get the one-and-done problem solved. These guys needed college ball in the worst way. They came out in a blind panic to make money. The team drafted them for the same reason on a wing and a prayer.

How does removing the one and done rule help with Chriss and Bender? You say they need college ball but that will be something less players actually go through once it's removed. Not sure what you're advocating.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How does removing the one and done rule help with Chriss and Bender? You say they need college ball but that will be something less players actually go through once it's removed. Not sure what you're advocating.

It doesn't solve it but it could help with the situation. First off, there is a stigma right now for players that spend more than one year in college which results in more players going after their freshman year than should. Secondly, not all players that think they are ready after one year will assume they are ready straight out of school. And if they really do make the G League a more inviting place to learn their craft, there will have to be less of a stigma attached to the high picks sent directly to the minors.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Very true.

EDIT: Can anyone think of any examples of someone going from "panic" to "ice"? Maybe not "ice" but to "pretty confident."

The difference is confidence. One can gain confidence.

 

[Hoop Head]

EDIT: Can anyone think of any examples of someone going from "panic" to "ice"? Maybe not "ice" but to "pretty confident."

Kobe was good at keeping his composure at the end of games. Jordan was great also. Bird is the king of though. Like how he started celebrating the final ball in the 3pt contest right after it left his hands. He started walking away with his hand held high like he'd just won before the ball made it through the hoop. Link to that. He was one of the most clutch performers. Lots of stories of him trash talking and telling guys what he was going to do and then doing exactly that because he made it clear they couldn't stop him.

Tim Thomas vs the Lakers is one of my favorite examples, I think. A player can gain confidence but I think either you're clutch or you're not. That's been one of the knocks on Lebron throughout his career. Ray Allen nailing that big 3 against San Antonio to get the Heat a title is another example.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gerald Green gained confidence when he came to the Suns.

 

[Covert Rain]

You don't think that that narrative is driven by prejudice and their pre-draft reputation which again a lot of people just assume that European players and prospects are high IQ prospects just like they assume they are less athletic.

Because by their play these two years you certainly can't make the case that Bender is a high IQ player or even higher IQ player than Chriss.


And Chriss is better, it is not just slightly.

Chriss is so far a below average power forward in the NBA with stretches where he played above average and stretches where he was bad.

Bender is so far consistently one of the worst players in the league with only a handful of good games.

I think pre-draft narrative is great until the day of the draft. Then I don't think most Suns fans here give a flying rats behind what that pre-draft narrative was.

That's a ridiculous inference. If Bender or Chriss was putting up great numbers do you really think people give a damn about pre-draft narratives? That makes zero sense.

Suns fans after the draft care about results on the court once they put on the uniform. You would have a leg to stand on if they were night and day players. They are not.

The issue is that neither guy is really living up to potential at this point. Neither guy is showing much of anything. Their status are not night and day difference so people look at intangibles like attitude and other factors.

Oh...and B.S. Chriss is more than slightly better. For a stats guy you seem to be using them only when it fits the narrative. There are plenty of status that are close and again they are not night and day.

Neither have shown much of anything.