Cleveland And The Suns Center Prospects

[George O'Brien]

When the Cavs traded Battie for Gooden and Hunter, they made a major step toward replacing Boozer. The Cavs hope that Paul Silas can help these two reach their potential and there is little doubt that Gooden will give them points. Hunter is more doubtful, but seems likely to get some minutes ahead of the dissapointing Diop.

However, the Cavs lack a backup PF. They have been frequently included in articles about Tractor Trailor and Joel Przybilla, although it is unclear how the Gooden deal effects their priorities. Nor is it clear how much they will be able to offer but I'm guessing they may be offer a tiny bit more than minimum.

Assuming the Suns get Q, I would think that one or the other of these two would be targeted by the Suns. My guess is that Trailor might be more attractive to the Cavs since he has some experience at PF, while Przybilla is strictly a center and has a history of injuries. If that is the case, I'm guessing the Suns for a minimum salary would be Przybilla's best option.

If the Suns do not get Q, I would expect them to try to do a trade for a center that uses their cap space.

 

[coloradosun]

George

My Portland theory is still in tack, just went to the Oregonian/Blazerblog

Latest is that Portland will move SAR for a center and Miles may be demanding way too much (9M) for the Blazers to commit (intentionally stalling talks).

GS is still looking for short term contracts for Dampier and don't want backups.

Also Miles and Q have the same agent, Jeff Wechsler. Maybe the Suns are finding agents that they can work with and acquire players they represent.

"So you're telling me there's a chance"- Jim Carrey

 

[George O'Brien]

George

My Portland theory is still in tack, just went to the Oregonian/Blazerblog

Latest is that Portland will move SAR for a center and Miles may be demanding way too much (9M) for the Blazers to commit (intentionally stalling talks).

GS is still looking for short term contracts for Dampier and don't want backups.

"So you're telling me there's a chance"- Jim Carrey

I'm not following your scenerio. SAR is getting $14.6 million, which is far too much for Dampier. Even throwing in the ever popular Evan Eschmeyer only brings it down to $11.1 million for Dampier to start. This is too much for a guy with a long history of injuries and only one really good season.

Dampier is worth $50 to $60 million. He is not worth $85 million - especially to a team that already has a center it likes.

 

[Joe Mama]

George, I'm not sure what makes you think Hunter is going to get time ahead of Diop. Hunter is a bigger flop than Diop.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Miles can't "demand" anything. He is a restricted free agent and no one, at this point, is going to offer him anything near $9 million to start.

 

[coloradosun]

I'm not following your scenerio. SAR is getting $14.6 million, which is far too much for Dampier. Even throwing in the ever popular Evan Eschmeyer only brings it down to $11.1 million for Dampier to start. This is too much for a guy with a long history of injuries and only one really good season.

Dampier is worth $50 to $60 million. He is not worth $85 million - especially to a team that already has a center it likes.

Looking back on cap space as of 6/28 the Warriors had 8M available, I forget what Fisher signed for.

Sign Dampier for 9M and GS absorbs the rest, there is not a more valuable contract out there that can clear cap space next summer than SAR, which is what Mullin wants to do to make a run at Yao.

I have been scolded on other boards about you only sign the player but you cannot trade another player with him. If they could, Cliff Robinson (5.3M) and Dampier (9M) would fall within the guidelines.

 

[elindholm]

I have been scolded on other boards about you only sign the player but you cannot trade another player with him.

Actually you can combine other players in a sign-and-trade. I'm partly to blame for the misconception that you can't, because that's what I used to think and I often made the point. But it turns out I was wrong.

Dampier at ~$9 million and Robinson for Abdur-Rahim would work.

Golden State used their MLE to sign Fisher. Presumably they have not renounced Dampier, so while they have no room under the cap, they can re-sign Dampier for pretty much whatever they want. Otherwise they don't have any room left (remember that they also re-signed Foyle), except for the million-dollar exception.

 

[NJYAJ09]

elindholm- if we don't get Q, what do you think our chances of getting Dampier are?

 

[elindholm]

elindholm- if we don't get Q, what do you think our chances of getting Dampier are?

Beats me, maybe 25%, probably not much more than that. I'm not convinced the Suns even want him. If they do, they have to hope that no sign-and-trade gets worked out, then try to appeal to some carefully balanced combination of Dampier's greed and his practicality. He might not get a better offer from another team, but he'd be locked into higher expectations here and might make everyone grumpy if he doesn't perform well. It's a fine line.

 

[devilalum]

elindholm- if we don't get Q, what do you think our chances of getting Dampier are?

Beats me, maybe 25%, probably not much more than that. I'm not convinced the Suns even want him. If they do, they have to hope that no sign-and-trade gets worked out, then try to appeal to some carefully balanced combination of Dampier's greed and his practicality. He might not get a better offer from another team, but he'd be locked into higher expectations here and might make everyone grumpy if he doesn't perform well. It's a fine line.

Suns fans are notoriously ambivalent. They never really got down on Penny that much and he was one of the biggest disappointments in franchise history.

Phoenix is a good fit for a guy with a lazy streak. Dampier should be happy to take the $45 million to sit by the pool of his Biltmore estate sipping Pina Coladas in January.

How many Pina Coladas is a case of turf toe worth anyway?

 

[coloradosun]

I have been scolded on other boards about you only sign the player but you cannot trade another player with him.

Actually you can combine other players in a sign-and-trade. I'm partly to blame for the misconception that you can't, because that's what I used to think and I often made the point. But it turns out I was wrong.

Dampier at ~$9 million and Robinson for Abdur-Rahim would work.

So to me this would make sense for GS because Troy Murphy was hurt last year and maybe another year of seasoning would be benefitial

SAR may want to resign next year w/GS for a discount

Dampier and Randolph would make for a good combination

Robinson would be a good back up for Randolph since SAR doesn't want to sit.

The way things have fallen this summer this is the only possible option for Dampier to get a good contract plus play for a playoff team and a place where SAR can get some substantial minutes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Sign Dampier for 9M and GS absorbs the rest, there is not a more valuable contract out there that can clear cap space next summer than SAR, which is what Mullin wants to do to make a run at Yao.

There are plenty of max expiring contracts. The Blazers have like 700 of them (one being NVE who was just shipped from GS).

SAR might not even be the best player with a max expiring deal, I would take Ratliff over him any day.



Another note, what would GS want to clear cap space for next year for? Yao will be completeing his third year, and wouldn't even be an RFA yet. He would be on his TO for the 4th year.

The year after, Yao would be a RFA, meaning the rockets could and would match any offer for him.

If he chose to take the 1 year qualifying offer at that point, he would be a UFA in the summer of 2007 (and he would be about 27 years old. Possibly with major health concerns if he doesn't stop playing year round)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Suns fans are notoriously ambivalent. They never really got down on Penny that much and he was one of the biggest disappointments in franchise history.

We were kinder than we should have been, but I think you read to much of TRH's nonsense and associated it with the rest of us.......

 

[George O'Brien]

Another note, what would GS want to clear cap space for next year for? Yao will be completeing his third year, and wouldn't even be an RFA yet. He would be on his TO for the 4th year.

Right now, GS has roughly $45 million in salaries with at least $15 million expiring next summer. This means that any long term contract they take now should be thought of on the basis of whether you would sign them as a free agent for that amount.

This is different than sign and trades by teams that are well over the cap. If you are well over the cap, then everybody is viewed based on tradeability rather than as if they were a free agent.

This is the problem the Warriors have with the offerings of the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies do not have particularly attractive expiring contracts (Bo Outlaw and Big Jake). My guess is that the only really good player they are offering is Posey ($5.4), but that's not enough to get Dampier the money he want's. What the Warriors want is Swift, but West won't part with him.

The problem with doing a deal for SAR goes the other way. Portland is not going to give Dampier a $14.5 million deal. It is certainly possible to do the deal by giving Dampier $9 million to start by trading Robinson along with Dampier, but that only makes sense if they prefer Dampier over Ratliff. There is no evidence that the Blazers prefer Dampier no matter what Coloradosun thinks.

 

[coloradosun]

There is no evidence that the Blazers prefer Dampier no matter what Coloradosun thinks.

David Alridge mentioned that Memphis, Phoenix and Portland may have interest in Dampier, not much solid evidence but a clue.

I just read a great quote on Mark Cubans webblog.

"99% of reported deals were never proposed and 99% of deals proposed never happen"

I'm not putting media releases together to get my information, I'm just trying to connect some dots.

It is obvious that GS and Portland have been in discussions, NVE - Dale Davis deal is proof of that and may be only part of the entire trade. Mullin wants to clear cap and get starter in return for Dampier, what position is their weakest, PF - Murphy, SAR provides more scoring. SAR went to Cal, may want to go back. Dampier played with NVE, they may play well together in Portland's offense. Robinson had his best years in Portland before Rasheed arrived, probably would be welcomed back. Miles and Q visited teams together (did they visit Phoenix together, I can't find that information, but they have the same agent). The Colangelos went after Ratliff last year.

This deal is probably being held up with Q's status, if Q is matched then Miles is out of the deal. How many other deals did we not hear about until they happened, they are usually trades, ex. Marbury to NYK, Battie to Orlando (George I remember you saying that you could not see the Cavs trading Battie). Also on the SunsInsider reported that the Warriors have a 3.5M trade exception that expires on Aug 18th, will they use it or not.

Yes, this is my conspiracy theory and mine alone it seems.

 

[George O'Brien]

The phrase "never say never" is probably appropriate for any deal that meets the cap requirements. That being said, I just don't see the "big picture" from all of these dots.

1. I don't see GS wanting SAR on a long term basis for the amount he is demanding. He has absolutely no intention of re-signing at a big discount.

2. Unless GS expects to re-sign him, it is not clear why they would want him for just one year. It would be a net addition of $10 in costs for a team that would still has almost no chance of making the playoffs. They'd be better off giving the minutes to Murphy who has some future with them.

3. It is not clear that the Blazers would have any interest in Robinson. He is just that good any more.

4. In the rumor mill, Aldridge is the only person that has suggested ANY interest in Dampier by the Blazers.

5. The fact that GS and Portland got together for one trade does not mean they communicate more than other teams. Everybody talks to one another all the time. It's their job.

 

[coloradosun]

1) How much is he demanding, the only thing he is demanding from Portland is playing time. SAR has had his big contract, the players third contract is usually smaller than the second, see Rasheed, McDyess etc.
2) If they don't want to resign him, his contract and Davis' would amount to 24M in spending available in next summers market and they immediately become the major player next year, that's rebuilding.
3)As Robinson proved in Phoenix he can play all 3 front court postions, by acquiring him as well it eliminates the need for another backup center besides Stepania.
4)I was wrong it was Chad Ford
5)As in any other business, I think GM's find others that they like to deal with and find that they can find common ground easier than others. Since Mullin is new to the postion he may want create these partnerships.

I just don't see why GS would not be interested in possibly renting an All-Star for one season to be competitive. Murphy will never be an All-Star so why put so much pressure on him so early.

I think the majority of GM's would rate Dampier ahead of Ratliff and if Paul Allen is a free spender why would they not be interested.

 

[George O'Brien]

1) How much is he demanding, the only thing he is demanding from Portland is playing time. SAR has had his big contract, the players third contract is usually smaller than the second, see Rasheed, McDyess etc.

SAR is only 28 years old. Most reduced price third contracts are of guys who are well over 30.

2) If they don't want to resign him, his contract and Davis' would amount to 24M in spending available in next summers market and they immediately become the major player next year, that's rebuilding.

Since Robinson comes off contract next summer, they are already set to be a major player in the FA market.

3)As Robinson proved in Phoenix he can play all 3 front court postions, by acquiring him as well it eliminates the need for another backup center besides Stepania.

Robinson is mostly a defender who is slower. He has never been a good rebounder and his shooting percentage has dropped dramatically since leaving Phoenix (38.7% with GS)

4)I was wrong it was Chad Ford
5)As in any other business, I think GM's find others that they like to deal with and find that they can find common ground easier than others. Since Mullin is new to the postion he may want create these partnerships.

Trades are not made because guys like each other. They are made because teams have different needs.

I just don't see why GS would not be interested in possibly renting an All-Star for one season to be competitive. Murphy will never be an All-Star so why put so much pressure on him so early.

In 2002-03 (his second season), Murphy averaged 10.2 rpg and 11.7 ppg on team with a number of very good rebounders. He is only 24 years old. He's 6'11" and listed at 245, but Hoopshype says he has bulked up so he may be bigger.

I think the majority of GM's would rate Dampier ahead of Ratliff and if Paul Allen is a free spender why would they not be interested.

The free agency market would suggest that Dampier's stock is not that high inspite of a great year.

Ratliff has never been a dominant rebounder, but his ability at blocking shots is game altering. While with Portland, Ratliff AVERAGED 4.41 blocks per game. Beginning with the '97-'98 season, Ratliff has averaged over 3 blocks per game every season except the year he only played 3 games in 2001-02.

How big a deal is his ability to block shots. In 2001-02, Hawks opponents shot 45.9% (with Ratliff injured). In 2002-03, their opponents shot only 43.6% inspite of the Hawks starting Glenn Robinson at SF.

So while I would love to get Ratliff, I do not believe the Blazers are going to trade him away.

 

[coloradosun]

SAR is only 28 years old. Most reduced price third contracts are of guys who are well over 30.

Since Robinson comes off contract next summer, they are already set to be a major player in the FA market.

Robinson is mostly a defender who is slower. He has never been a good rebounder and his shooting percentage has dropped dramatically since leaving Phoenix (38.7% with GS)

Trades are not made because guys like each other. They are made because teams have different needs.


In 2002-03 (his second season), Murphy averaged 10.2 rpg and 11.7 ppg on team with a number of very good rebounders. He is only 24.



The free agency market would suggest that Dampier's stock is not that high inspite of a great year.

Ratliff has never been a dominant rebounder, but his ability at blocking shots is game altering.


So while I would love to get Ratliff, I do not believe the Blazers are going to trade him away.

-So next summer he will be 29 and in the same postion as Dampier. Also if GS has any interest in acquiring Jason Kidd (bigger local attraction) SAR for Kidd is a straight up deal. Jefferson could become a restricted FA next year and could follow Kidd to GS with their open cap space or sign and trade.

-If the Blazers could not find a taker for him this summer, it should be a leading indicator of what he can expect on the open market next summer. If you look PF position most teams have that locked up.

-Robinson has 2 years left on his contract, so GS gets him off the books this year.

-All they need out of Robinson is defense, any scoring will be a bonus.

-I would expect Amare to be a dominant rebounder, Ratliff a complementary rebounder

-Wasn't Murphy hurt last year. And be honest with me, wouldn't you rather have a 20/10 All-Star starting ahead of a 10/10 guy.

I still go back to the comment that Amare's agent said, the Suns have a trade in place for a center and it will be "shocking". I've gone through every center that could illicit that response and this is my logical answer.