Clippers @ Suns game thread 2-23-18

[JCSunsfan]

He was consistently decent for a good part of the end of last season. I don’t think it’s hnreasonable to expect something close to that this season.

OK. I did not think he was that good last year. He was mildly competent. But it was easy enough for teams to figure out how to guard him and now he is effectively neutralized. He just not an nba player, never was.

Wow. This place has gotten really tense. Sorry for whatever contributions I might have made to the atmosphere.

 

[SirStefan32]

'Good points! But has it changed the Suns recent or long term record or hope for the future (other than lucking out in the draft)?

Looking for a few bright spots is great. But the Suns need a lot more than that to take the next step in a very competitive league.

Well, you don't build a team in a day. Would you rather not have Jackson and Warren? I get it, you want the Suns to be REALLY good right now. We all want that, but that's not how it works. They are set a 2 and 3, need a backup PG, but they have a starter. They need to add some depth and size at 4 and 5, but they definitely have some talent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's sort of ironic. Those who want the Suns to lose are unhappy when they lose.

If the Suns changed coaches and the GM position, but started winning, they would be screaming again.

If the winning impacted this season yeah. But not if the change was made at years end. I don’t think anyone’s calling for changes right now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My point of view is that, with a roster overloaded with young, unproven players (plus some in the twilight of their careers), I don't want to see us embrace a losing culture. Or disappoint their star player.

Life is about setting priorities and I suggest that team mentality is #1. As far as putting a winning roster together, that is the responsibility of the Front Office. They can be passive or they can be proactive in planning the future.

Thus far, they have mostly been passive and that is a problem. I believe that all other considerations of details (such as how to build a winner over these past eight years of not making the playoffs) follow. Obviously, the leadership group has failed.

See I don’t see “passive” there’s been a ton of trades. That’s not passive.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a fair concern.

But remember, aside from Sarver, who is not going anywhere, this leadership group has not been here 8 years. McD has only been rebuilding for 3 years. If we were to dump McD and hire a new GM and coach, would you saddle them with the failures of the previous 8 years as well?

Impatience, not passivity, on Sarver's part is why we are here. He was the one who wanted a retool after Dragic and the bunch nearly made the playoffs during McD's first year here. It took McD two years to finally convince Sarver that a full rebuild was in order.

That's why this summer is key. My concern is that if they start over this summer, especially with a new GM, they will stretch out the losing process rather than move on to the next step.

They already are going to be in a coaching search. Do the due diligence, get the best coach possible. Add the key young players this summer in the draft. Go after quality vets in free agency to fill out the roster. Be competitive for a playoff spot next year.

Why would a new GM want to stretch out the rebuilding? If I was a new GM and inherited the current talent plus a top 5 pick this year I’d be looking to add a FA Star or leverage those assets into a legit star to pair with Booker, jackson and this year’s top pick. And then watch the winning take off.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK. Ulis should not be a frustration to anyone. He is a 5-9 second rounder. He was like a lottery ticket. Small chance of hitting big, but you cannot expect anything. Bender is inconsistent, but overall his improvement is there. He is moving forward. Chriss is frustrating because of his regression. That is a very legit frustration.

I think the Ulis frustration is a combo of name recognition and regression too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think the Ulis frustration is a combo of name recognition and regression too.

I just think he was a gimmick to begin with. He is easily defended and there is no solution to that. If he could shoot at a reasonable rate he might be more useful.

 

[BC867]

Well, you don't build a team in a day.

Eight years out of the playoffs, Stef. That's 2,920 days. That's a lotta days.

I just don't see how the status quo, especially with the mentality of tanking now a passive part of the equation, and our wretched history of draft picking (which may or may involve skullduggery by the league), is going to turn us into winners.

Over and over...? Expect different results...? The history is no mystery. Especially the history of the people above the Head Coach who have been choosing the coaches and the players to be at the point we are at now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Eight years out of the playoffs, Stef. That's 2,920 days. That's a lotta days.

I just don't see how the status quo, especially with the mentality of tanking now a passive part of the equation, and our wretched history of draft picking (which may or may involve skullduggery by the league), is going to turn us into winners.

Over and over...? Expect different results...? The history is no mystery. Especially the history of the people above the Head Coach who have been choosing the coaches and the players to be at the point we are at now.

8 years is on one guy and one guy only--the owner. And that is not going to change any time soon.

 

[SirStefan32]

Eight years out of the playoffs, Stef. That's 2,920 days. That's a lotta days.

I just don't see how the status quo, especially with the mentality of tanking now a passive part of the equation, and our wretched history of draft picking (which may or may involve skullduggery by the league), is going to turn us into winners.

Over and over...? Expect different results...? The history is no mystery. Especially the history of the people above the Head Coach who have been choosing the coaches and the players to be at the point we are at now.

So what the hell is it that you actually want? Lebron and Durant aren't gonna sign with the Suns tomorrow. You do a lot of complaining, but I don't hear any solutions. And no, value "Build a balanced team, hire a great GM and coach, blah blah blah" doesn't count as that's not specific.

You, Mr. BC are now the GM! Tell us what your plan is.

 

[BC867]

So what the hell is it that you actually want? Lebron and Durant aren't gonna sign with the Suns tomorrow. You do a lot of complaining, but I don't hear any solutions. And no, value "Build a balanced team, hire a great GM and coach, blah blah blah" doesn't count as that's not specific.

You, Mr. BC are now the GM! Tell us what your plan is.

First, I'd fire the Managing General Partner. Then, I'd advise the rest of the owners to replace the GM to one with experience and the gones to tell them to let him use his experience and do the job. Then, the new GM would hire an experienced Head Coach who wants the job. Then the Suns would do what they have always had trouble doing -- providing a balanced roster vs. your best players in the backcourt and either too young or too old.

Stef, when I directed Operations for decades, I devoted 10-11 hours per day, 6 days a week to planning, executing, delegating and follow-up. To choosing the right employees for the jobs, with a balance of skills and personalities. To training and retraining. And motivating.

So, c'mon, if I could sit here as a fan and have all the answers and a concise plan, well, that would really show how ignorant the Suns brass have been. They're getting paid, and getting paid big bucks, to handle the specifics. You know that. Nice try, though, Stef.

 

[SirStefan32]

First, I'd fire the Managing General Partner. Then, I'd advise the rest of the owners to replace the GM to one with experience and the gones to tell them to let him use his experience and do the job. Then, the new GM would hire an experienced Head Coach who wants the job. Then the Suns would do what they have always had trouble doing -- providing a balanced roster vs. your best players in the backcourt and either too young or too old.

Stef, when I directed Operations for decades, I devoted 10-11 hours per day, 6 days a week to planning, executing, delegating and follow-up. To choosing the right employees for the jobs, with a balance of skills and personalities. To training and retraining. And motivating.

So, c'mon, if I could sit here as a fan and have all the answers and a concise plan, well, that would really show how ignorant the Suns brass have been. They're getting paid, and getting paid big bucks, to handle the specifics. You know that. Nice try, though, Stef.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You sure like to complain, but offer zero realistic specifics.

 

[BC867]

This is exactly what I am talking about. You sure like to complain, but offer zero realistic specifics.

Are you toying with me, Stef? "Complain"? "Specifics"? Hey, man, I am a fan!

Are you pleased with the Suns being the laughingstock of the league? Right from the start of the season. And does anyone expect you to spend hundreds and hundreds of hours of research for the General Manager as you pretend to expect from me?

I don't think so! Why are you defending the status quo? This management team sucks. The Suns have no choice but to write off this decade and start from scratch from the top down, with people with experience to build a winner. The sooner, the better.

And if that is not going to happen, then the fans will continue to be SOL. Maybe we should just shut down this site. Of course I don't mean that. But, damn, why am I being criticized for not being happy with what our team has turned into?

Well, at least I'll have teams to watch over the summer that make the Valley proud -- the D-backs (who reached the playoffs) and the basketball team that knows how to win, the Mighty Mercury.

The only basketball championship banners that hang at Talking Stick Resort Arena over these past 50 years belong to the Mercury. Luckily, Sarver has kept his nose, and his ego, out of the Mercury's business and not ruined them as he has the Suns. My guess would be that Annie has stood up to him. There is evidently no one within the Suns to do that. Or do you expect me to do that, too? Oh, boy, you've lowered me to sarcasm. I'm sorry.

Seriously, Stef, I have always respected you (as many of the people on this site) as an articulate and knowledgable poster. Don't let me down, huh.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nobody is happy being the worst team in the league. The difference is that all you do is complain. It doesn't matter what we are discussing, you r contribution is, "Sarver sucks, small-town banker. McD needs fired. Sarver is not REALLY the owner. We are the laughing stock of the NBA. Sarver sucks, McD is terrible. Everything sucks." When asked for what you would do differently, you spew the same garbage over and over again.

 

[BC867]

Nobody is happy being the worst team in the league. The difference is that all you do is complain. It doesn't matter what we are discussing, you r contribution is, "Sarver sucks, small-town banker. McD needs fired. Sarver is not REALLY the owner. We are the laughing stock of the NBA. Sarver sucks, McD is terrible. Everything sucks." When asked for what you would do differently, you spew the same garbage over and over again.

I keep telling myself that I won't react. Then I see continued posts that accept the Suns horrible performance. Last season. This season. And hit-and-miss planning.

And I see articles online, from national writers, who ridicule the Suns, for their unprofessional antics. You're in Harrisburg. Do you read articles from Philly or Pittsburgh or Harrisburg, or online, who call out the Suns for their making spectacles of themselves? If so, how do you feel about it? What you refer to as complaints, I guess I call pride.

As I mentioned, with the D-backs and Mercury seasons coming up, I know where my Valley of the Sun pride will be fulfilled and I won't be as frustrated as all winter long. I'm still a Suns fan, but (because I am not a Cardinals fanatic) the Suns will no longer be the only (active) team in town.

And, BTW, not having more info than the owner and GM is hardly "spewing garbage". I haven't accused you of that and you haven't put together a comprehensive plan for them to follow any more than I. Or any other fan. It is a play on words.

From now on when I read the same repeated comments condoning the Suns failure, I'll try to say to myself, "OK, no matter how many times they post it, don't react." (In writing, anyway.)

I'm more than twice your age, Stef, and I guess that might indicate why we look at some things differently. I've never referred to you, or anyone else, as "spewing garbage". I don't even understand why you would consider sound management practices as garbage. Running the Suns still needs to adhere to the same principles as running JC Penney. The main goal is building confidence in your product and hiring executives who can fulfill that.

Edit: You're right. I'm posting too much. 'Time to take a breather.