Colts | Clean House

[Southpaw]

Also look at where the Colts have been drafting. 31,27,59,32,30,29, and 44 compared to the Cardinals 26,31,16,5,10,8, and 3. Not as easy to find first round winners when they are almost the same as other teams 2nd round selections.

Another thing being overlooked is how long the Colts were able to keep their players. Manning 14 seasons, Reggie Wayne 11 years. Marvin Harrison played 13. Tarik Glenn 10 seasons. Dallas Clark 9. Freeney 10 years. Ryan Diem 11 years. They got 7 seasons out of Edge. Meanwhile the Cards can hardly keep a guy past his initial contract.

Good point. The guys who invented the draft must have thought about that one. Bringing teams back to the middle and forcing front offices to be creative. Because of and in spite of their success, Polian managed to keep the roster good enough to be in the playoffs every year and win a Super Bowl. I still contend the Irsays are dolts. Watch the Bears finally get smart and grab the Colts cast off front office. I am hoping Ross and the Dolphins are taking notice and dump Ireland for these guys.

 

[Southpaw]

I think the Polian's are linked with Manning. However they were gonna handle him, it apparently didn't go over well with the owners.

Now Manning is on record saying he is shocked that the Polians are gone. Either he ordered the hit and is now feigning surprise, or he won't be on the Colts next year either.

Wondering if a team might hire Polian, because he would have the inside track for Manning, if he was cut and able to return next year.

Didn't the Irsays order the firing of Manning's Offensive Coordinator and guru, Tom Moore, a few years ago. Manning was pissed about that one also, but was still there. I wonder if this is Jim Irsay's method for showing Manning he is still boss. If Irsay can lock up Luck, he may be throwing Manning to the curb.

 

[Buckybird]

I think the Polian's are linked with Manning. However they were gonna handle him, it apparently didn't go over well with the owners.

Now Manning is on record saying he is shocked that the Polians are gone. Either he ordered the hit and is now feigning surprise, or he won't be on the Colts next year either.

Wondering if a team might hire Polian, because he would have the inside track for Manning, if he was cut and able to return next year.

It's been no secret that Peyton & Bill Polian have a great relationship & are close. I think Bill was fired by Irsay to cut that tie, enabling them to trade or cut Manning allowing Luck to start from day 1.

 

[MrYeahBut]

IMO, it's possible that Manning still likes Caldwell and the FO delaying the decision on a coaching change until they are sure whether Manning is going to play next year.

 

[Southpaw]

It's been no secret that Peyton & Bill Polian have a great relationship & are close. I think Bill was fired by Irsay to cut that tie, enabling them to trade or cut Manning allowing Luck to start from day 1.

Wake up Dolphins. Get all 3 of those guys. Manning & the Polians. Give the Colts your first and whatever. Manning gets to play on grass in his geriatric years and the Polians could draft and spend better than Ireland with blindfolds on.

 

[Southpaw]

IMO, it's possible that Manning still likes Caldwell and the FO delaying the decision on a coaching change until they are sure whether Manning is going to play next year.

New front office gets to hire new coach ?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

All I have seen posted is nobody wants Polian for the Cardinals at this time. I haven't seen any post that says Graves has had a better career than Polian. You are comparing them and all people are saying is Polian NOW isn't something they want for the Cardinals.

Okay, I'll give you that. I'll rephrase it. Why would anyone not want the Cards to look at Bill Polian as a GM? To not look at Polian as GM because we have Rod Graves would be like the Colts passing on Luck because they Dan Orlovsky in place and he won 2 of his last 3 starts.

Either way, wanting to stick with Graves over Polian, at any point in their careers, is incomprehensible to me.

 

[oaken1]

Aha.

yeh Wally, that was it........ am I the only one who see's this as an odd situation??
I would think with all the ties the Polians and Manning have to Luck that the team would not dump the Polians if they were going to draft him.....

Good possibility Polian had that"Hey kid ya gave it a great run, but everything comes to an end" kinda talk with Peyton.....so Peyton went to Irsay to let him know what happened and that he aint ready to step aside.

I dunno...but my guess is that the Colts do not draft Andrew Luck........they could however use Blackmon if Manning is going to play.

 

[40yearfan]

Didn't the Irsays order the firing of Manning's Offensive Coordinator and guru, Tom Moore, a few years ago. Manning was pissed about that one also, but was still there. I wonder if this is Jim Irsay's method for showing Manning he is still boss. If Irsay can lock up Luck, he may be throwing Manning to the curb.

The Dolphins can have both of the Polians. If the Colts cut Manning loose, I hope the Cards go after him.

 

[PJ1]

Okay, I'll give you that. I'll rephrase it. Why would anyone not want the Cards to look at Bill Polian as a GM? To not look at Polian as GM because we have Rod Graves would be like the Colts passing on Luck because they Dan Orlovsky in place and he won 2 of his last 3 starts.

Either way, wanting to stick with Graves over Polian, at any point in their careers, is incomprehensible to me.

I would assume you get the son with Bill. Not crazy about that. I also assume he cleans house and starts with a new coaching staff. I would like to see where our present staff can take us. Lastly and most importantly he would not be effective with the Cardinal ownership. Not to bring up the ever raging debate about the Bidwill's but they would not allow him to do his thing in my opinion. This may be changing but even with Michael's influence we still let too many good players get away. Some say it is all on Graves but I doubt it. Graves is more of a puppet than anything else.

 

[Chopper0080]

When your GM is giving big contracts to injury prone players (Clark and Sanders) and then is failing to put together solid draft classes, then it is time to go. I give credit to Bill Polian for putting together a pretty solid roster from the one he inherited in 98, but he gets the credit for allowing it to turn into one of the least talented as well. Something changed in how he was handling his responsibilities, and rumors state he was allowing his son to take the reins.

Great GM, but has not done that team any favors over the past 4 years.

 

[Duckjake]

When your GM is giving big contracts to injury prone players (Clark and Sanders) and then is failing to put together solid draft classes, then it is time to go. I give credit to Bill Polian for putting together a pretty solid roster from the one he inherited in 98, but he gets the credit for allowing it to turn into one of the least talented as well. Something changed in how he was handling his responsibilities, and rumors state he was allowing his son to take the reins.

Great GM, but has not done that team any favors over the past 4 years.

Other than winning the AFC Championship in 2009 that bunch has done nothing the last 4 years.

 

[SuperSpck]

When your GM is giving big contracts to injury prone players (Clark and Sanders) and then is failing to put together solid draft classes, then it is time to go. I give credit to Bill Polian for putting together a pretty solid roster from the one he inherited in 98, but he gets the credit for allowing it to turn into one of the least talented as well. Something changed in how he was handling his responsibilities, and rumors state he was allowing his son to take the reins.

Great GM, but has not done that team any favors over the past 4 years.

I agree with what you're saying, but if the Colts would have let Sanders and Clark (IOWA!) walk they would have made huge mistakes.

 

[SuperSpck]

Other than winning the AFC Championship in 2009 that bunch has done nothing the last 4 years.

That Championship has more to do with one very very big right pick than a lot of little misteps.
Polian's got a tremendous legacy, but the current Colts, which are built on him, aren't defensible. They're a very bad team.
The current Cardinal front office structure is one game off from the Colt's best year and a long way off from their worst.

 

[Duckjake]

That Championship has more to do with one very very big right pick than a lot of little misteps.
Polian's got a tremendous legacy, but the current Colts, which are built on him, aren't defensible. They're a very bad team.
The current Cardinal front office structure is one game off from the Colt's best year and a long way off from their worst.

Sorry but you can't claim that Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, and Dwight Freeney had nothing to do with Indy's success. Nobody, not even Peyton Manning, can go 14-2 and win an AFC Championship by himself.

You also mention the Cardinals front office who produced the 2010 team when they lost their HOF QB. A horrible season by any measure. As bad as the Colts were this season they still didn't end up 31st in passing offense and 32nd in rushing offense like the Cards did last season.

 

[SuperSpck]

Sorry but you can't claim that Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, and Dwight Freeney had nothing to do with Indy's success. Nobody, not even Peyton Manning, can go 14-2 and win an AFC Championship by himself.

You also mention the Cardinals front office who produced the 2010 team when they lost their HOF QB. A horrible season by any measure. As bad as the Colts were this season they still didn't end up 31st in passing offense and 32nd in rushing offense like the Cards did last season.

Wouldn't dare.
You're without-a-doubt-right. They're terrific players.
But Reggie and Dwight tried like hell this year, without a lot to show for it.
Dallas is a guy I love (obligatory: IOWA!) but has a very specific niche in the NFL. He's only amazing on half the teams in the NFL. In the rest, he's pedestrian.

You're also right, this season has erased a lot of my sour-lemon taste about last year out of my brain, but if last year's Cardinal QB situation can be as big an influence on the season as the Colts was this year, perhaps the truth is much closer to the middle than both of us realized at first glace.

 

[Chopper0080]

Other than winning the AFC Championship in 2009 that bunch has done nothing the last 4 years.

That is the benefit of having a Hall of Fame QB, it allows you more room for error. Now that he is all but gone, what do they have? A roster of average talent and the first pick in the draft.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sorry but you can't claim that Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, and Dwight Freeney had nothing to do with Indy's success. Nobody, not even Peyton Manning, can go 14-2 and win an AFC Championship by himself.

You also mention the Cardinals front office who produced the 2010 team when they lost their HOF QB. A horrible season by any measure. As bad as the Colts were this season they still didn't end up 31st in passing offense and 32nd in rushing offense like the Cards did last season.

All players that were picked pre 2004 I believe. Polian built a solid roster, but that roster got old, and he hasn't drafted a pro bowl player in 7 years. Having Manning has covered up a bunch of warts on that roster. The team was built on Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Saturday, Tarik Glenn, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders. All great draft picks, but all from drafts 7 years past. Those players are old (Manning, Freeney, Clark, Saturday), on other teams (Sanders), retired (Harrison, Glenn) or free agents (Wayne, Mathis). Polian built a champion, but has done nothing recently to sustain one.

 

[Chopper0080]

Wouldn't dare.
You're without-a-doubt-right. They're terrific players.
But Reggie and Dwight tried like hell this year, without a lot to show for it.
Dallas is a guy I love (obligatory: IOWA!) but has a very specific niche in the NFL. He's only amazing on half the teams in the NFL. In the rest, he's pedestrian.

You're also right, this season has erased a lot of my sour-lemon taste about last year out of my brain, but if last year's Cardinal QB situation can be as big an influence on the season as the Colts was this year, perhaps the truth is much closer to the middle than both of us realized at first glace.

Is that niche that he only plays half the games of any given season? Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders were really good players, but their bodies just haven't been able to hold up to the pounding of the NFL. They never should have received the big contracts and bonuses that they did because they never could stay healthy for a full season. Even worse, the Colts did very little to secure quality players behind them at those key positions.

How many players on the Colts roster right now, would start over the player that the Cardinals have at that same position? Manning (when healthy), Garcon, Castonzo (maybe), Saturday (maybe), Freeney (different scheme), Mathis (different scheme) and that is about it.

 

[oaken1]

I dunno......seams to me you all are missing out on the VERY obvious................ a few weeks back, prior to Indy's first win I think.....Colts management/ownership was asked about anybody pending unemployment...the guy stated, "I do not foresee any firings, but I also do not foresee going 0-16 either"

Maybe...just maybe....with all the ties the Polians have with Luck......the Colts ownership is of the opinion that "suck for Luck" was not just a joke, but a philosophy?? Perhaps they found some indications that management and coaching colaborated to get that top pick so they could secure Manning's replacement?

I think that would make most owners fire a relatively successful front office....without warning/out of the blue/blind sided.........

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This has to be one of the most amazing threads I have ever read on this site. I just sit here and shake my head that people are thinking the Cards front office with Rod Graves is comparable to Bill Polian's front office at any point, on any team.
The guy has put together 4 SB teams in Buffalo, built Carolina from the ground up to the SB, and has had about 10 straight years of double digit wins in Indy. One bad year where they were blindsided by not having Manning and now he's overrated and people would rather have Graves. That's just unbelievable. Of course people still hold out hope that Stewart Bradley was a good signing. I guess there's nothing wrong with being a homer. But at least try to have some perspective.

 

[Totally_Red]

This has to be one of the most amazing threads I have ever read on this site. I just sit here and shake my head that people are thinking the Cards front office with Rod Graves is comparable to Bill Polian's front office at any point, on any team.
The guy has put together 4 SB teams in Buffalo, built Carolina from the ground up to the SB, and has had about 10 straight years of double digit wins in Indy. One bad year where they were blindsided by not having Manning and now he's overrated and people would rather have Graves. That's just unbelievable. Of course people still hold out hope that Stewart Bradley was a good signing. I guess there's nothing wrong with being a homer. But at least try to have some perspective.

Ditto! Rod Graves has had top ten draft picks almost every year and has missed more often than he's hit IMO. Polian has not sustained his early success in Indy, but he did build a powerhouse offense and a defense centered around superb pass-rushing defensive ends. Many of the top ten picks Rod has made -like Antrel Rolle, Matt Leinart, and Levi Brown -have not played up to their draft position to put it politely.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In his 14 year tenure in Indy, who were absolute doormats before he arrived, they won 143 games, 8 division titles, 2 AFC titles, and Super Bowl victory.

 

[Southpaw]

In his 14 year tenure in Indy, who were absolute doormats before he arrived, they won 143 games, 8 division titles, 2 AFC titles, and Super Bowl victory.

Just a flash in the pan and the game has passed him by.

Irsay has an inflated sense of worth and ego. Once the Polians and Manning are gone, the RCA dome will be an echo chamber.

 

[Chopper0080]

This has to be one of the most amazing threads I have ever read on this site. I just sit here and shake my head that people are thinking the Cards front office with Rod Graves is comparable to Bill Polian's front office at any point, on any team. The guy has put together 4 SB teams in Buffalo, built Carolina from the ground up to the SB, and has had about 10 straight years of double digit wins in Indy. One bad year where they were blindsided by not having Manning and now he's overrated and people would rather have Graves. That's just unbelievable. Of course people still hold out hope that Stewart Bradley was a good signing. I guess there's nothing wrong with being a homer. But at least try to have some perspective.

I guess I missed where this thread was a comparison between the two.