Combine Aftermath: DBs Blaze and Questions at the Top

[Mitch]

Which is why I want the Cardinals to trade down and take their QBOTF.

I know next year is a big year, but I would rather the Cardinals add a view pieces to next years team but also walk away with a young arm for the future.

Trade down from #13 to about #20 and pick up a 3rd rounder.

This draft just doesn't set up that way. Why pass up a 5 year starter and possibly a Pro Bowler to take a developmental QB?

What QB are you trading down for?

If the Bears are signing Mike Glennon to a deal worth $15M a year ---and they pick #3 in the draft ---what does that tell you about this QB class?

 

[Russ Smith]

Good hell people...

1-Reuben Foster is the best ILB prospect since Luke Kuechly. He plays all 3 downs, he has size, he can cover, and he has great instincts. LBs can be crazy...it is ok, and in fact, a LB with anger issues is almost preferred. So, this "we already have Reuben Foster on our roster in Deone Bucannon" nonsense is just that, nonsense. Bucannon has been a league average ILB at best so far...

Yeah I don't like him as much as you do but I fully expect Foster will be a MUCH better LB than Deonne is. If we find that's too small great, move Deonne to S he can lose weight again we have other guys to play LB and we just replaced his hybrid position with a rookie who will eventually if not very early on, be better than Deonne as a LB.

Deonne seems to be hurt himself quite a bit, he played every game the first 2 years but was often nicked up, last year missed 3 games. I think it's pretty much a given if you're playing ILB in the NFL at his size you're probably going to have some injury issues. That doesn't mean you pass on a potentially great player to take someone who will play more years but make less impact in those years.

The other thing out there of course is if Deonne can't really play S, and you can't play him and Foster together, you can always trade Deonne to some other team looking to follow the trend to a smaller LB.

 

[Finito]

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Haha

 

[cardncubfan]

Wentz and Goff are much better prospects -- it's not even close. But, because of the value of the position, I agree with you that some teams might reach for a QB sooner than they probably should. The problem is --- there are so many good players at other positions -- it's hard to pass up a 5 year starter for a developmental QB.

How are Goff & Wentz much better prospects than Watson? I would be fine with either Mahomes or Watson as our QBoF. I prefer Mahomes though. I feel even he is a better prospect the Goff & Wentz.

 

[Mitch]

How are Goff & Wentz much better prospects than Watson? I would be fine with either Mahomes or Watson as our QBoF. I prefer Mahomes though. I feel even he is a better prospect the Goff & Wentz.

Why do you think they went #1 and #2 last year...and this year with QB starved teams at the top of the draft, there is no consensus #1 QB and there's a good chance only 1 of this year's QBs will go in the top 15 picks. Why wouldn't the Browns, Niners or Bears take a QB this year---and right now it looks like none of them will.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wentz and Goff are much better prospects -- it's not even close. But, because of the value of the position, I agree with you that some teams might reach for a QB sooner than they probably should. The problem is --- there are so many good players at other positions -- it's hard to pass up a 5 year starter for a developmental QB.

I think Wentz and Goff were vastly overrated last year.

Wentz played well at first, but struggled mightily once teams figured him out.

Goff? About as bad a rookie top pick as we've seen in awhile.

You say they are developmental QBs. I don't think they are developmental QBs because thats normally a term for the Ryan Lindley class of rookies. Are they talented passers who need to be developed? Absolutely, which is why the Cardinals are a perfect fit. If the Cardinals don't get QB under control, this will be a bad football team the moment Carson retires.

 

[juza76]

I think Wentz and Goff were vastly overrated last year.

Wentz played well at first, but struggled mightily once teams figured him out.

Goff? About as bad a rookie top pick as we've seen in awhile.

You say they are developmental QBs. I don't think they are developmental QBs because thats normally a term for the Ryan Lindley class of rookies. Are they talented passers who need to be developed? Absolutely, which is why the Cardinals are a perfect fit. If the Cardinals don't get QB under control, this will be a bad football team the moment Carson retires.

Great post
every qbs coming from college are projects but what we can consider is the talent and leadership and 2/3 of them has the skillset to be nfl starter
Being day1 ready is difficult actually but we need a player to grow behind carson
It is not a year lost but a year gained

 

[cardncubfan]

Why do you think they went #1 and #2 last year...and this year with QB starved teams at the top of the draft, there is no consensus #1 QB and there's a good chance only 1 of this year's QBs will go in the top 15 picks. Why wouldn't the Browns, Niners or Bears take a QB this year---and right now it looks like none of them will.

You answered my question with a question Mitch. My question was a serious question. What makes Goff & co better than Watson? Watson had stellar years as far as I know. Won the National Championship & just put up unbelievable #'s. I don't know what Goff & Wentz did in college. Was it that much better than Watsons years? I'm honestly looking for the reasoning behind it. I don't follow college ball so I only go by what I read on line. Btw I like Mahomes because I feel he has that ''it'' factor. He finds ways to improvise & win.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I look at it this way:

Over the next 3-5 years, what is the biggest need? Is it a #2 corner? Is it a (LOL) ILB? No...its QB, and I think you take a swing at the position until you get it right.

I like Watson, Trubisky, and Mahomes. Not a big fan of Kizer but I see his upside. Mahomes is the most intriguing because of his big time arm, sturdy build, and athletic ability. I think he could be really good in Arians scheme.

 

[Mitch]

You answered my question with a question Mitch. My question was a serious question. What makes Goff & co better than Watson? Watson had stellar years as far as I know. Won the National Championship & just put up unbelievable #'s. I don't know what Goff & Wentz did in college. Was it that much better than Watsons years? I'm honestly looking for the reasoning behind it. I don't follow college ball so I only go by what I read on line. Btw I like Mahomes because I feel he has that ''it'' factor. He finds ways to improvise & win.

Now word is the Browns want to offer their #12 pick for Jimmy Garoppolo. I am just saying that this year's QB class is considered weaker than usual, and I agree---with the exception perhaps of Watson, I do not think BA would start any of them in 2018. Maybe BA is planning to retire after this year---who knows? But, even BA says that if you draft a QB in the 1st round you have to play him sooner rather than later.

I agree with you about Watson---he won big games---he didn't dazzle at times, but he got the job done, especially this year. His two performances versus Ohio St. and Alabama were fabulous.

Mahomes is unrefined---very raw---but multi-dimensional and very talented.

 

[cardncubfan]

Now word is the Browns want to offer their #12 pick for Jimmy Garoppolo. I am just saying that this year's QB class is considered weaker than usual, and I agree---with the exception perhaps of Watson, I do not think BA would start any of them in 2018. Maybe BA is planning to retire after this year---who knows? But, even BA says that if you draft a QB in the 1st round you have to play him sooner rather than later.

I agree with you about Watson---he won big games---he didn't dazzle at times, but he got the job done, especially this year. His two performances versus Ohio St. and Alabama were fabulous.

Mahomes is unrefined---very raw---but multi-dimensional and very talented.

Aargh! Are you a politician Mitch? I'll phrase it another way. What did Goff & Wentz do that set them apart from Watson et al? What makes them so much better prospects? They went #1 & 2 last year.

 

[Mitch]

Aargh! Are you a politician Mitch? I'll phrase it another way. What did Goff & Wentz do that set them apart from Watson et al? What makes them so much better prospects? They went #1 & 2 last year.

Goff put up gawdy numbers for two years at Cal. He's got a live, accurate arm. He was highly touted coming to Cal.

Wentz won a NCAA Championship with North Dakota St. He's a more mobile version of Kurt Warner. Plays with very similar intensity.

In my opinion, Jeff Fisher should have played Goff from the get-go. They were just wasting their time with Case Keenam. I think Goff looked understandably tentative when he finally got his chance---and by then the Rams were reeling and floundering...which is tough on any QB. He reminds me some of Eli Manning.

Wentz got the Eagles off to fast start and looked very good until he hurt his elbow. He tried to play through it---but was hampered by it, no question. Wentz was my favorite QB coming into the draft, even before he started soaring up draft boards.

Watson lacks Goff's accuracy and Wentz's improv skills. But he's certainly as much of a competitor and he knows what it takes to win, especially under the highest amount of inside and outside pressure.

 

[Cardiac]

Wentz's Oline also fell apart due to injuries and the suspension of their RT for peds (peptides?). Also he has close to zero talent at the WR position.

 

[Chopper0080]

I look at it this way:

Over the next 3-5 years, what is the biggest need? Is it a #2 corner? Is it a (LOL) ILB? No...its QB, and I think you take a swing at the position until you get it right.

I like Watson, Trubisky, and Mahomes. Not a big fan of Kizer but I see his upside. Mahomes is the most intriguing because of his big time arm, sturdy build, and athletic ability. I think he could be really good in Arians scheme.

To Krang's point, he is absolutely dead on. Our next QB is our biggest question moving forward.

If I had to choose one in this draft, I would take Watson at 13. I don't know if he can be any better than Tyrod Taylor, but that isn't bad and we can keep searching for another one while he is on the roster. The only thing I don't know about Watson is if his ceiling is Tyrod or Drew Brees/Russ Wilson.

 

[Krangodnzr]

To Krang's point, he is absolutely dead on. Our next QB is our biggest question moving forward.

If I had to choose one in this draft, I would take Watson at 13. I don't know if he can be any better than Tyrod Taylor, but that isn't bad and we can keep searching for another one while he is on the roster. The only thing I don't know about Watson is if his ceiling is Tyrod or Drew Brees/Russ Wilson.

Honestly I'm taken aback when I see posters on this board advocating taking an ILB or a #2 corner.

I just think Keim needs to really start taking chances on the most important position. Even if it takes 3 draft picks to do it, it's worth it.

I like Watson just as much as I liked Goff and Wentz last year, but this years draft is stronger which pushes down the QBs.

Mahomes is my preference because I think he has the most upside, and if he doesn't have to play right away, I'll gamble on upside.

 

[Dude]

Now word is the Browns want to offer their #12 pick for Jimmy Garoppolo. I am just saying that this year's QB class is considered weaker than usual, and I agree---with the exception perhaps of Watson, I do not think BA would start any of them in 2018. Maybe BA is planning to retire after this year---who knows? But, even BA says that if you draft a QB in the 1st round you have to play him sooner rather than later.

I agree with you about Watson---he won big games---he didn't dazzle at times, but he got the job done, especially this year. His two performances versus Ohio St. and Alabama were fabulous.

Mahomes is unrefined---very raw---but multi-dimensional and very talented.

CP thought about not play this year. If we can get Watson we better take him.

 

[Stout]

Honestly I'm taken aback when I see posters on this board advocating taking an ILB or a #2 corner.

I just think Keim needs to really start taking chances on the most important position. Even if it takes 3 draft picks to do it, it's worth it.

I like Watson just as much as I liked Goff and Wentz last year, but this years draft is stronger which pushes down the QBs.

Mahomes is my preference because I think he has the most upside, and if he doesn't have to play right away, I'll gamble on upside.

ILBer is the QB of the defense. Look what Willis did for the Whiners. Consider what the great ILBers did for their teams. I'll grant you that edge rusher is the top position of need on any defense in this day and age; I'll argue between shutdown QB and stud ILBer as the second most important position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

ILBer is the QB of the defense. Look what Willis did for the Whiners. Consider what the great ILBers did for their teams. I'll grant you that edge rusher is the top position of need on any defense in this day and age; I'll argue between shutdown QB and stud ILBer as the second most important position.

The Niners defense would've blew chunks without Justin Smith. Defenses dont need great ILBs to be good, and in the modern NFL the position is more and more less.

 

[Southpaw]

Just read this post Combine analysis on Brad Kaaya;

"
"Accuracy and ball placement can be sketchy. Will rush throws and "work early" rather than throw with velocity into tight windows. Front side opens early, causing passes to sail. Consistently poor accuracy on intermediate work. Completed just 38 percent of his passes between 11-20 yards in 2016.

Underthrows deep balls and fails to consistently hit crossers and slants in stride. Arm strength lags behind NFL norm. Throws hang in air or nose-dive prematurely when throwing field side.

Rigid, mechanical approach as passer. Lacks arm talent and improvisational skills to create magic with off-balance throws on the move. Fails to see and exploit anticipatory throws between linebackers and safeties. Lacks mobility outside the pocket and will give into the pressure -- at times taking the sack rather than getting rid of the ball."



Ouch.

 

[Stout]

The Niners defense would've blew chunks without Justin Smith. Defenses dont need great ILBs to be good, and in the modern NFL the position is more and more less.

No and no. The Niners defense would have been worse without Smith, of course, but wouldn't have blown chunks. Way to totally brush past what a beast Willis was LOL And you don't NEED a great ILB to be good, but you do need one to be great on defense. And, with the way our offense struggled last season, we NEEDED our defense to be great.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No and no. The Niners defense would have been worse without Smith, of course, but wouldn't have blown chunks. Way to totally brush past what a beast Willis was LOL And you don't NEED a great ILB to be good, but you do need one to be great on defense. And, with the way our offense struggled last season, we NEEDED our defense to be great.

But this team has no future without a QB once Palmer retires. That is the crux of my argument and it really doesnt matter if we pass on a possibly really good ILB.

 

[Stout]

But this team has no future without a QB once Palmer retires. That is the crux of my argument and it really doesnt matter if we pass on a possibly really good ILB.

Oh, I'm in complete agreement with you there. If you (Keim) are looking at a choice between what you believe is your QBOF and what you believe will be a high-impact ILBer, you go with the QBOF ten times out of ten.

 

[Chopper0080]

Honestly I'm taken aback when I see posters on this board advocating taking an ILB or a #2 corner.

I just think Keim needs to really start taking chances on the most important position. Even if it takes 3 draft picks to do it, it's worth it.

I like Watson just as much as I liked Goff and Wentz last year, but this years draft is stronger which pushes down the QBs.

Mahomes is my preference because I think he has the most upside, and if he doesn't have to play right away, I'll gamble on upside.

The only thing I hope to avoid is that the Cardinals take a QB to take a QB. I don't believe that it will happen, but I would much rather have them invest in a guy they actually believe in.

 

[Ohcrap75]

This draft reminds me of 2011, but without Cam... If we are sold on a QB then take him absolutely! But don't just take one because of need or else you end up like Tennessee or Minnesota and missing out on great players for bad QBs

 

[Russ Smith]

Goff put up gawdy numbers for two years at Cal. He's got a live, accurate arm. He was highly touted coming to Cal.

Wentz won a NCAA Championship with North Dakota St. He's a more mobile version of Kurt Warner. Plays with very similar intensity.

In my opinion, Jeff Fisher should have played Goff from the get-go. They were just wasting their time with Case Keenam. I think Goff looked understandably tentative when he finally got his chance---and by then the Rams were reeling and floundering...which is tough on any QB. He reminds me some of Eli Manning.

Wentz got the Eagles off to fast start and looked very good until he hurt his elbow. He tried to play through it---but was hampered by it, no question. Wentz was my favorite QB coming into the draft, even before he started soaring up draft boards.

Watson lacks Goff's accuracy and Wentz's improv skills. But he's certainly as much of a competitor and he knows what it takes to win, especially under the highest amount of inside and outside pressure.

Not really true though. Goff was NOT that highly rated. ESPN had him rated 267th in their top 300 out of HS. 247 had him the 15th rated QB in the class. Rivals 8th best QB nationally. There was quite a bit of "controversy" on him when he got to Cal because his official bio said he turned down offers from USC, Oregon and UW. SI even did a story on it, his dad was a pro baseball player so he wasn't a total unknown but it sounds like his dad sort of "played up" how highly rated he was before he got to Cal.

He put up gaudy stats at Cal but in an air raid offense that's tough to judge how good a QB actually is. He got bigger and stronger at Cal I won't be stunned if winds up a good QB but I wasn't very high on him in college and was amazed he wound up the first overall pick.

He certainly wasn't lightly recruited like Wentz was out of HS, but he was not projected to be a high draft pick coming out of HS.