Comparisons Being Drawn Between Kolb and Leinart

[gmabel830]

That's not what I witnessed, and that's not what Somers and Urban were commenting on. The problem with Kolb--and this isn't my exclusive commentary--is that he senses pressure that isn't coming, and flees the pocket and runs himself into sacks.

It wasn't until late in the season when Bridges and Brown were both playing well at the tackle position that the problems in our interior blocking were exposed. But early in the season Kolb was backing into sacks that were assigned to Brown, who was doing his job for the most part.

Just out of curiosity (I certainly don't have the slightest clue), back in Philly when Kolb had a better offensive line and thorough understanding of the playbook, was his pocket presence ever brought into question when he played? Were there any issues with this when he was in college at Houston (even though that was a drastically different system)? I don't recall it being brought up as a major concern based on what people did see out of him before the trade. It certaintly is not debatable that Kolb had awful pocket presence last year, but I think it is debatable if the reason is because Kolb truly has no pocket presence or if it was a product of the circumstances he faced last year (an inferior line to what he was used to and a playbook that he had far from mastered).

 

[Stout]

Just out of curiosity (I certainly don't have the slightest clue), back in Philly when Kolb had a better offensive line and thorough understanding of the playbook, was his pocket presence ever brought into question when he played? Were there any issues with this when he was in college at Houston (even though that was a drastically different system)? I don't recall it being brought up as a major concern based on what people did see out of him before the trade. It certaintly is not debatable that Kolb had awful pocket presence last year, but I think it is debatable if the reason is because Kolb truly has no pocket presence or if it was a product of the circumstances he faced last year (an inferior line to what he was used to and a playbook that he had far from mastered).

The problem is that, now matter how good or bad an OL is, a QB MUST make use of the pocket when it is available. I'm sure there were plays where Kolb absolutely had bail from the pocket because of interior pressure. That isn't the problem. The problem is when he bails when he doesn't have to and ends up getting into trouble. He's how old, and has had how many years in the league? This is a basic QB trait that he hasn't shown with us. This is my concern, dude (parallel meant )

 

[gmabel830]

The problem is that, now matter how good or bad an OL is, a QB MUST make use of the pocket when it is available. I'm sure there were plays where Kolb absolutely had bail from the pocket because of interior pressure. That isn't the problem. The problem is when he bails when he doesn't have to and ends up getting into trouble. He's how old, and has had how many years in the league? This is a basic QB trait that he hasn't shown with us. This is my concern, dude (parallel meant )

Fair enough points, but it still does not answer my question if there were any tendencies of this before last year. I'm not arguing with what we saw last year, just if it is 100% certain that this is a deficiency in Kolb's skillset vs being the result of him only having a month to learn a new offensive system?

 

[Phrazbit]

Just out of curiosity (I certainly don't have the slightest clue), back in Philly when Kolb had a better offensive line and thorough understanding of the playbook, was his pocket presence ever brought into question when he played? Were there any issues with this when he was in college at Houston (even though that was a drastically different system)? I don't recall it being brought up as a major concern based on what people did see out of him before the trade. It certaintly is not debatable that Kolb had awful pocket presence last year, but I think it is debatable if the reason is because Kolb truly has no pocket presence or if it was a product of the circumstances he faced last year (an inferior line to what he was used to and a playbook that he had far from mastered).

Mike Lombardi had mentioned more than once before the trade that Kolb had a "low eye level", as in he was paying to much attention to the pass rush, fleeing at perceived pressure and throwing to hot routes and did not display the ability to make down field reads.

ESPNs archives are a mess, I could probably find the right podcast if I spent an hour, but a quick web search revealed this article:

http://allpurposeroto.com/articles/?p=1238

Lots of interesting points, he quotes Lombardi, and the "captain check-down" stuff was talked here a bit more back before he completely unraveled and his total lack of awareness became the move overwhelming complaint. So yes, the writing was on the wall.

 

[gmabel830]

Mike Lombardi had mentioned more than once before the trade that Kolb had a "low eye level", as in he was paying to much attention to the pass rush, fleeing at perceived pressure and throwing to hot routes and did not display the ability to make down field reads.

ESPNs archives are a mess, I could probably find the right podcast if I spent an hour, but a quick web search revealed this article:

http://allpurposeroto.com/articles/?p=1238

Lots of interesting points, he quotes Lombardi, and the "captain check-down" stuff was talked here a bit more back before he completely unraveled and his total lack of awareness became the move overwhelming complaint. So yes, the writing was on the wall.

Fair post, and agree the article has some interesting points in the article, but the article does focus on the amount of check downs vs. Kolb being too quick to flee the pocket/having no pocket awareness. I can buy the "low eye level" argument as a legit deficiency, but it would take more than one analyst's opinion to thoroughly convince me. Appreciate the response/link though, it was a good read on an opinion from back in the day.

 

[Dback Jon]

Kolb - Can kill a wild pig with a knife.

Leinart - Called the poison control hot line after being stung by a scorpion.

Now if only we could get some opposing defenses to sign a few pigs

 

[RedRob]

Because Skelton didn't make them look bad by backing into sacks. The same thing happens with Michael Vick and to a lesser extent Ben Roethlisberger. They wander out of or around the pocket looking to make plays outside the design of the offense and end up taking needless sacks. It's hurt Vick's career and it'll likely shorten Roethlisberger's.

Hate to say it but I'll take a shortened RBerg career. The dude makes plays by hanging in there when 80% of QBs are on the ground.

An extra second of the QB holding the football in the NFL is an extremely enormous advantage. Ben does that all day whereas Kolb seems to have a timeclock in his head that's needs a little ritalin.

 

[Duckjake]

Hate to say it but I'll take a shortened RBerg career. The dude makes plays by hanging in there when 80% of QBs are on the ground.

An extra second of the QB holding the football in the NFL is an extremely enormous advantage. Ben does that all day whereas Kolb seems to have a timeclock in his head that's needs a little ritalin.

And you know who's showing signs of being able to do that? Double Deuce!

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'll maintain that they both suck.

You have a few camps on this board:

Phrazbit's Kolb sucks Posse

and

Desertdawg's Kolb Koolaid kids


Consider me in the Our QBs blow and draft one in 2013 club.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And you know who's showing signs of being able to do that? Double Deuce!

He also shows signs of hanging in the pocket, but missing a wide open receiver in the seams or throwing a horribly inaccurate throw.

Or we have Kolb that can play if you keep him clean, but freaks out at any real (or imagined) pressure.

 

[Duckjake]

He also shows signs of hanging in the pocket, but missing a wide open receiver in the seams or throwing a horribly inaccurate throw.

Or we have Kolb that can play if you keep him clean, but freaks out at any real (or imagined) pressure.

Kolb threw over 1500 passes in college, around 600 more than Skelton. John is fresh unmolded clay. Kolb is old clay that if it doesn't get worked properly soon will dry out and be useless.

 

[stewdog1]

You have no freaking clue whether it will or not.



Nor do you, stewdog.

Granted, I'm of the same opinion stewdog has, but that doesn't mean we can know for sure. If there's one thing I know about the NFL, and about QBs in general, is that it's difficult to figure out what will happen before it does.

Yeah, I know, it's a prediction.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kolb threw over 1500 passes in college, around 600 more than Skelton. John is fresh unmolded clay. Kolb is old clay that if it doesn't get worked properly soon will dry out and be useless.

Old Clay? When was a 26 year old, old clay?

Just another reason that Kolb is closer, he's gotten more reps

But last year he blew, and so did John Skelton aka the reincarnation of Jake Plummer.

 

[Cardiac]

Kolb - Can kill a wild pig with a knife.

Leinart - Called the poison control hot line after being stung by a scorpion.

Classic Dems. That sums up the comparative mental and physical toughness better then anything I could think of.

 

[Duckjake]

Old Clay? When was a 26 year old, old clay?

Just another reason that Kolb is closer, he's gotten more reps

But last year he blew, and so did John Skelton aka the reincarnation of Jake Plummer.

Kolb will be 28 in less than 3 months. Where did you get the 26? Were you talking about 2010?

So he's not old, old clay. Just old clay. By 27, after 4 years of college ball and 5 years in the NFL the molding is just about done. Unless you find a guy who just needs to wear gloves to get a better grip on the football.

Our guys didn't blow last year. Very few NFL teams can win 7 of 9 in the NFL with horrible QB play. Dereck Anderson and Max Hall were consistently horrible. Skelton and Kolb were just frustratingly mediocre.

 

[Phrazbit]

De-wreck Anderson... a guy who had completed less than 50% of his passes the two seasons before becoming a Cardinal. Watching him throw its surprising he even completes that many. How he is still employed in the league is baffling.

 

[CardLogic]

That's not what I witnessed, and that's not what Somers and Urban were commenting on. The problem with Kolb--and this isn't my exclusive commentary--is that he senses pressure that isn't coming, and flees the pocket and runs himself into sacks.

It wasn't until late in the season when Bridges and Brown were both playing well at the tackle position that the problems in our interior blocking were exposed. But early in the season Kolb was backing into sacks that were assigned to Brown, who was doing his job for the most part.

Bingo!

 

[52brandon]

Skelton and Kolb were just frustratingly mediocre.

perfect description

 

[THESMEL]

Leinart is much better at everything, its a bad comparison. Even with leadership Skillset off the charts Kolb will never catch Leinarts overall NFL QB grades.

Skelton is still improving and has elite size, arm, and surprizing wheels and intangibles. Reminds me of a young Mcnabb, but Fordham kept Skelton behind, until now.

I never seen where Kolb fit Whiz's high pressure offense? Whiz wants to throw every down and keep pressure on the oppsing defense? Kolb is not built to strong arm opponents like Kurt did.