Could Doncic 'Steve Francis' himself onto the Suns?

[GatorAZ]

I don’t remember the Stevie Franchise thing. Did he not like the fit with Bibby?

 

[JS22]

I think PHX would still have to trade up. A team like LAC with 2 lottery picks (#12 & #13) could take him and still get a guy that will play for them next year. They would hold Doncic’s rights until he decides to play in NBA or use him as a trade chip.

Maybe they'd be interested in swapping Doncic for the rights to Milos Vujanic?

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t remember the Stevie Franchise thing. Did he not like the fit with Bibby?

He didn't want to play in Vancouver, I believe was the issue. I know it was before the Grizzlies moved. I could be wrong but I think that was the primary issue.


Edit: Here is a link with some of the issues he had, apparently it was Vancouver the city that was the main issue.

http://ballislife.com/flashback-199...for-being-drafted-by-the-grizzlies-at-2-pick/

 

[Mainstreet]

Teams that would not do this: Phoenix, Sacramento, Atlanta, Memphis, Knicks

Teams that might do this: Dallas, Chicago, Cleveland (if LeBron is gone), Hornets, Sixers.

If Doncic says he is staying in Europe he will not go before: Ayton, Bagley, Bamba, Porter, JJJr, Mikal Bridges, Young, Wendell Carter. He could get hurt, he might never come. Too much of a risk with players of this caliber in this draft.

So my prediction: If Doncic says he is staying in the draft but also staying in Europe at least one year, he will drop to 9 or lower.

If it happens this way, the Suns should move up to earliest spot possible in that range to get him.

 

[GatorAZ]

He didn't want to play in Vancouver, I believe was the issue. I know it was before the Grizzlies moved. I could be wrong but I think that was the primary issue.


Edit: Here is a link with some of the issues he had, apparently it was Vancouver the city that was the main issue.

http://ballislife.com/flashback-199...for-being-drafted-by-the-grizzlies-at-2-pick/

Some athletes have very thin skin. Still think it might’ve have been about the team being terrible. They won 8 games in the strike season... Lol

I remember Francis being pretty amazing early on with Houston. He averaged 20/7/7 for a couple years before falling off. He was Westbrook before Westbrook.

 

[Hoop Head]

Some athletes have very thin skin. Still think it might’ve have been about the team being terrible. They won 8 games in the strike season... Lol

I remember Francis being pretty amazing early on with Houston. He averaged 20/7/7 for a couple years before falling off. He was Westbrook before Westbrook.

That could have been an issue but the more I search the more complaining I see by him about Vancouver. He claimed taxes were an issue and didn't like Canada because it wasn't big on basketball but ultimately he thought he should be in a big market because he saw himself as the next coming of Jordan. His ego was huge and he felt he couldn't get the right sponsorships there. Market size isn't much of an issue today. There is a benefit to being in LA, New York, or Chicago but it's not that much of a benefit unless you're planning on acting like Shaq did, or even Blake Griffin tried. That would be harder if you're in Oklahoma but not impossible. Durant had an awful disney type film made called Thunderstruck while he played there. It was awful but it's still an opportunity that may not have existed in the 90's.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Perhaps he's saying he's staying in Europe to help land where he wants. I can't see him staying in Europe another year if the Suns were able to trade for him or trade for a pick to draft him.

Also Cleveland doesn't have a bright front office. It wouldn't surprise me if they drafted Doncic whether he's planning on coming over or not. They're all in on Lebron and I think drafting Doncic shows they're trying to upgrade their team. If they can't get him to come over, that sucks but it can't be blamed on them entirely. It depends on what Doncic's camp is saying come draft time.

If Doncic wanted to manipulate the draft, he could say he is staying in Europe for at least a year. That would force his way to the team that he has already talked with behind the scenes. They then draft him and he changes his mind about coming.

I do not think LeBron would be impressed with the Cavs drafting a star rookie that will not show up for a year or more. LeBron is 33 years old and does not have years to wait around.

LeBron would probably be much more interested in seeing Cleveland trade that pick for a star player in his prime.

 

[Phrazbit]

Teams that would not do this: Phoenix, Sacramento, Atlanta, Memphis, Knicks

Teams that might do this: Dallas, Chicago, Cleveland (if LeBron is gone), Hornets, Sixers.

If Doncic says he is staying in Europe he will not go before: Ayton, Bagley, Bamba, Porter, JJJr, Mikal Bridges, Young, Wendell Carter. He could get hurt, he might never come. Too much of a risk with players of this caliber in this draft.

So my prediction: If Doncic says he is staying in the draft but also staying in Europe at least one year, he will drop to 9 or lower.

Disagree completely. He's the most highly touted player out of Europe... ever. Even if he says he's going to stay in Europe for a year I fully expect he will go ahead of Carter and Bridges for certain and Young and Porter most likely.

And I do think Atlanta and especially the Knicks (no chance in hell he slips passed the Knicks) would consider him. Neither team is winning crap next year, they can afford to wait a season if they think he's a potential superstar.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Knicks won't have Porzingis next year, they're probably the 1 lottery team who might actually prefer that Doncic waits a year to come over. That way he could join them when Porzingis returns and they'd have a nice pair of Euro's to run a 2 man game. They don't have much else there. Frank Nitilikina and Emmanuel Mudiay? They'll probably set a franchise record for least amount of wins. I'd be surprised if they could win 20 games next year, with or without adding a lottery pick from this class. Without adding someone though they'll probably win around 15 games.

 

[Suns_fan69]

That could have been an issue but the more I search the more complaining I see by him about Vancouver. He claimed taxes were an issue and didn't like Canada because it wasn't big on basketball but ultimately he thought he should be in a big market because he saw himself as the next coming of Jordan. His ego was huge and he felt he couldn't get the right sponsorships there. Market size isn't much of an issue today. There is a benefit to being in LA, New York, or Chicago but it's not that much of a benefit unless you're planning on acting like Shaq did, or even Blake Griffin tried. That would be harder if you're in Oklahoma but not impossible. Durant had an awful disney type film made called Thunderstruck while he played there. It was awful but it's still an opportunity that may not have existed in the 90's.

Yup, it was 100% about the city of Vancouver for a bunch of the reasons listed. I was here for it all and I'm still bitter about it. Lamar Odom in the same draft showed much more maturity and was willing to come here, and would have been an excellent mate for Shareef and Bibby. Instead Vancouver selected Francis who pouted his way out.

A good read from Francis himself: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/steve-francis-i-got-a-story-to-tell

 

[Mainstreet]

Yup, it was 100% about the city of Vancouver for a bunch of the reasons listed. I was here for it all and I'm still bitter about it. Lamar Odom in the same draft showed much more maturity and was willing to come here, and would have been an excellent mate for Shareef and Bibby. Instead Vancouver selected Francis who pouted his way out.

A good read from Francis himself: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/steve-francis-i-got-a-story-to-tell

I think living in Vancouver would be so cool. I've always liked the Seattle area. I can see why you are upset. That's on Francis if he wants to act like that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Disagree completely. He's the most highly touted player out of Europe... ever. Even if he says he's going to stay in Europe for a year I fully expect he will go ahead of Carter and Bridges for certain and Young and Porter most likely.

And I do think Atlanta and especially the Knicks (no chance in hell he slips passed the Knicks) would consider him. Neither team is winning crap next year, they can afford to wait a season if they think he's a potential superstar.

Well. That is not disagreeing completely. But OK.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Knicks won't have Porzingis next year, they're probably the 1 lottery team who might actually prefer that Doncic waits a year to come over. That way he could join them when Porzingis returns and they'd have a nice pair of Euro's to run a 2 man game. They don't have much else there. Frank Nitilikina and Emmanuel Mudiay? They'll probably set a franchise record for least amount of wins. I'd be surprised if they could win 20 games next year, with or without adding a lottery pick from this class. Without adding someone though they'll probably win around 15 games.

It would be a completely Euro led team.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I think living in Vancouver would be so cool. I've always liked the Seattle area. I can see why you are upset. That's on Francis if he wants to act like that.

I'm obviously biased but I love living in Vancouver. It's also a very different place now than it was 20 some-odd years ago, and a basketball team here now would have a much greater chance of sticking around. Of course, there's no scenario I can imagine where Seattle doesn't get a team first before Vancouver.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm obviously biased but I love living in Vancouver. It's also a very different place now than it was 20 some-odd years ago, and a basketball team here now would have a much greater chance of sticking around. Of course, there's no scenario I can imagine where Seattle doesn't get a team first before Vancouver.

This is what I was thinking also, that Seattle might get a team first. Still if the NBA expands I hope they look at Vancouver. You are very lucky to be living in such a beautiful place.

 

[playstation]

exhibit a - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-and-the-draft-day-trade-that-changed-nba-history/
exhibit b -

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exhibit c -

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funny to me that a generation ago it was Vlade that was the lynchpin. this time it may be him again if he takes Doncic #2. not saying any of that will happen, but jeez the guy isn't even trying to get drafted, and clearly kokoskov is speaking from perspective that he as a coach can get a lot more out of Doncic (not saying others cannot, yet still)

 

[Krangodnzr]

exhibit a - https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-and-the-draft-day-trade-that-changed-nba-history/
exhibit b -

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exhibit c -

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funny to me that a generation ago it was Vlade that was the lynchpin. this time it may be him again if he takes Doncic #2. not saying any of that will happen, but jeez the guy isn't even trying to get drafted, and clearly kokoskov is speaking from perspective that he as a coach can get a lot more out of Doncic (not saying others cannot, yet still)

AHHHHHH! Watching this makes me want the Suns to draft Doncic. I mean, I'm more sure about Ayton, but damn, I think Doncic is going to be really good.

 

[rocker]

On sports.yahoo he said ''After my rookie season, I will see who made a mistake''. He will play for any team.

 

[Mainstreet]

On sports.yahoo he said ''After my rookie season, I will see who made a mistake''. He will play for any team.

I still want him for the Suns though... just not #1.

 

[slinslin]

Doncic is the European version of Joe Johnson. He is an early bloomer.

He also has a lot of bad habits. In Europe he already struggles getting by mediocre smaller defenders that are not good athletes. His bread and butter play is isolation that results in multiple dribbles and usually goes backward into a stepback jumpshot.

Some opinions I am reading are just crazy. He is nowhere near a playmaker like Ben Simmons. He is a forward that can make good passes and that needs the ball in his hands.

Whoever thinks that adding Doncic to a team equals suddenly having ball movement is completely off, Real Madrid is one of the most stagnant least ball movement teams in Europe.

His stats are great but it is not like they are something that has never been done before, they are very similiar to Ginobili and Bogdanovic who were a few years older.

But there is no guarantee that just because Doncic is younger that he has more room to grow than they did. Like I said he has received pro coaching for years and skillwise he is simply further along.

European prospects are way more prone to be early bloomers due to how the youth system works. If we go to European football there are tons of talents that look like the next greatest player at age 16-20 but then suddenly stop developing further.

 

[rocker]

Doncic is the European version of Joe Johnson. He is an early bloomer.

He also has a lot of bad habits. In Europe he already struggles getting by mediocre smaller defenders that are not good athletes. His bread and butter play is isolation that results in multiple dribbles and usually goes backward into a stepback jumpshot.

Some opinions I am reading are just crazy. He is nowhere near a playmaker like Ben Simmons. He is a forward that can make good passes and that needs the ball in his hands.

Whoever thinks that adding Doncic to a team equals suddenly having ball movement is completely off, Real Madrid is one of the most stagnant least ball movement teams in Europe.

His stats are great but it is not like they are something that has never been done before, they are very similiar to Ginobili and Bogdanovic who were a few years older.

But there is no guarantee that just because Doncic is younger that he has more room to grow than they did. Like I said he has received pro coaching for years and skillwise he is simply further along.

European prospects are way more prone to be early bloomers due to how the youth system works. If we go to European football there are tons of talents that look like the next greatest player at age 16-20 but then suddenly stop developing further.

On what basis is he an early bloomer and has no room to grow? He didn't have one day of nba training. See Dragic, he's a late bloomer.

 

[Hoop Head]

On what basis is he an early bloomer and has no room to grow? He didn't have one day of nba training. See Dragic, he's a late bloomer.

He does have professional training and even played against NBA talent and teams when he was just 17. Training for the NBA is NOT the only sort of professional training. He played an exhibition against the Thunder 2 years ago, which is just 1 game but not many 17 year olds get that sort of opportunity. He's played for his national team which won gold last year in Europe and now he's the MVP of his professional league. He's not an "amateur" like the NCAA prospects. He has more developed skills already than his draft counterparts. Some fear that what you see is what he'll be, with little room to grow beyond just getting accustomed to the NBA. Honestly I don't think anyone has questioned the idea that he's an early bloomer of sorts. Not many 19 year olds accomplish what he has and he was able to do it because he developed as a player so early.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Doncic is the European version of Joe Johnson. He is an early bloomer.

He also has a lot of bad habits. In Europe he already struggles getting by mediocre smaller defenders that are not good athletes. His bread and butter play is isolation that results in multiple dribbles and usually goes backward into a stepback jumpshot.

Some opinions I am reading are just crazy. He is nowhere near a playmaker like Ben Simmons. He is a forward that can make good passes and that needs the ball in his hands.

Whoever thinks that adding Doncic to a team equals suddenly having ball movement is completely off, Real Madrid is one of the most stagnant least ball movement teams in Europe.

His stats are great but it is not like they are something that has never been done before, they are very similiar to Ginobili and Bogdanovic who were a few years older.

But there is no guarantee that just because Doncic is younger that he has more room to grow than they did. Like I said he has received pro coaching for years and skillwise he is simply further along.

European prospects are way more prone to be early bloomers due to how the youth system works. If we go to European football there are tons of talents that look like the next greatest player at age 16-20 but then suddenly stop developing further.

Lots of good points here to be honest...

 

[JCSunsfan]

Doncic is the European version of Joe Johnson. He is an early bloomer.

He also has a lot of bad habits. In Europe he already struggles getting by mediocre smaller defenders that are not good athletes. His bread and butter play is isolation that results in multiple dribbles and usually goes backward into a stepback jumpshot.

Some opinions I am reading are just crazy. He is nowhere near a playmaker like Ben Simmons. He is a forward that can make good passes and that needs the ball in his hands.

Whoever thinks that adding Doncic to a team equals suddenly having ball movement is completely off, Real Madrid is one of the most stagnant least ball movement teams in Europe.

His stats are great but it is not like they are something that has never been done before, they are very similiar to Ginobili and Bogdanovic who were a few years older.

But there is no guarantee that just because Doncic is younger that he has more room to grow than they did. Like I said he has received pro coaching for years and skillwise he is simply further along.

European prospects are way more prone to be early bloomers due to how the youth system works. If we go to European football there are tons of talents that look like the next greatest player at age 16-20 but then suddenly stop developing further.

This has been exactly my take on Doncic. His entire claim to fame is that he is the "Wonderboy." He has a very mature game for his age. But that does not mean that he will develop on the same trajectory going forward. Players develop until they hit their ceiling. Sometimes that ceiling is determined by their athletic abilities, BBIQ, or skill development max. The question you have to ask is where is it that he has room to improve. He could improve his shooting some, but he has been shooting and from distance all his life. His shooting actually seems to be in decline. His strength will increase some, but his strength is not his weakness, its his speed. That is not likely to change. He has some upside, but not as much as other players I see.