Couple of good Cardinal Articles on SI.com

vinnymac

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Not a bad review by the Cardinals. Everything is depending on the qb play this season and keeping the running backs off the injured list.
 

Krangodnzr

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Not a bad review by the Cardinals. Everything is depending on the qb play this season and keeping the running backs off the injured list.

I'll stick my neck out and say that I think if one of the QBs emerges, we definitely win the NFC West.
 

Darkside

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I'll stick my neck out even further and say one of them doesn't even have to emerge. All they have to do is suck less.

Our QB's last year lost us games. Incompletions and punting would have been a serious improvement over what they did. I'm not being facetious or tongue-in-cheek either, they actually lost games. When you give up as many sacks as we did or throw interceptions it totally flips field position, gives up points, and loses games. It winds our defense, tires them out, demoralizes them. It's amazing they could play with so much energy toward the end of the year, given what they had to deal with on offense.

I said this last year and I believe it holds true this year: If our QB(s) can play even mediocre ball we'll have a winning record. Even if all we do is punt instead of taking those sacks and throwing INT's, and make teams drive 70 or 80 yards instead of 40 or 50 that's a huge improvement. We wonder why our D had so few turnovers, and I believe it's because they were defending a shortened field so much of the time. You make teams drive 70/80 yards, you'll see more turnovers. More opportunities=more turnovers.

(Edit: and I forgot to mention time of possession. We should view that more as a positive for our D than the offense, because we're going to pass and pass, like we always do, but the longer we can sustain drives, the more rest our D gets. You combine that with making teams actually drive the length of the field on this defense, with a refreshed defense, and we'll get more turnovers, which translates into more opportunities for our Offense. It all comes down to turnovers: less on offense, more on defense. And it starts and ends, for us, at QB)
 
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Phrazbit

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We wonder why our D had so few turnovers, and I believe it's because they were defending a shortened field so much of the time. You make teams drive 70/80 yards, you'll see more turnovers. More opportunities=more turnovers.

Also, our corner play was not good. Peterson seemed like he was often playing not to get burned, as he gets more comfortable I'd imagine he will be more aggressive in coverage. And AJ Jefferson was just plain awful. I am still very skeptical of our options at the #2 corner slot but I do think it will end up being an improvement over last year's very poor level of play.
 

Duckjake

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Our QB's last year lost us games. Incompletions and punting would have been a serious improvement over what they did. I'm not being facetious or tongue-in-cheek either, they actually lost games. When you give up as many sacks as we did or throw interceptions it totally flips field position, gives up points, and loses games. It winds our defense, tires them out, demoralizes them. It's amazing they could play with so much energy toward the end of the year, given what they had to deal with on offense.

Wasn't that 2010? Our QBs won us more games last year than they lost. 4 OT wins, 7 of our last 9. 70 and 80 yards drives to win or tie. Every teams QBs lose them games. It's when it's like the Cards in 2010 and they are losing you 7,8,9 a season that you have trouble. We weren't in that situation last season.

Our QB situation isn't great but it's not as bad as you are painting it. Put a little more Kool-Aid Red on your Palette.
 

Darkside

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Also, our corner play was not good. Peterson seemed like he was often playing not to get burned, as he gets more comfortable I'd imagine he will be more aggressive in coverage. And AJ Jefferson was just plain awful. I am still very skeptical of our options at the #2 corner slot but I do think it will end up being an improvement over last year's very poor level of play.

I totally agree with your post on all counts. Peterson played off his man way too much of the time, not wanting to get burned deep. He didn't want to be on the wrong end of a highlight reel and I don't blame him. He really stepped up against Dallas against Dez Bryant though and played press coverage, off with bump, and just off using his closing speed. That was his best game in my opinion. He really shut the dude down in the second half especially.

AJ really sucks in my opinion. Agree that he played awful. I'm probably not as skeptical as you, I don't know, because we have a long line of CB's trailing out the door just dying to play. I would think one of them has to suck less than AJ.
 

Darkside

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Wasn't that 2010? Our QBs won us more games last year than they lost. 4 OT wins, 7 of our last 9. 70 and 80 yards drives to win or tie. Every teams QBs lose them games. It's when it's like the Cards in 2010 and they are losing you 7,8,9 a season that you have trouble. We weren't in that situation last season.

Our QB situation isn't great but it's not as bad as you are painting it. Put a little more Kool-Aid Red on your Palette.

I honestly thought I was the biggest koolaid drinker there is. 2010 was the bottom barrel, no doubt. But last year I would seriously disagree with your analysis. Our QB's had so many OT wins because they put us in that position to begin with by sucking so bad. Giving up sacks, INT's (23 interceptions man!!) etc. It's like saying double deuce had a good game when he gave up 2 safeties. We won that game. Doesn't mean he played well. He played well enough to win in the 4th, but if not for him we probably don't have to even go there. We won 7 of our last 9 because of our defense man, and I think you know that. Our D gave our offense more opportunities to stop sucking especially in the latter half of the season. More opportunities.

Saying our QB is good or even average because he can pull out games is like saying Tim Tebow is good because of his ability to ball out and win those close games. It's just not true. Without Tebow sucking for 3 quarters they aren't even in that position. Without our QB's sucking so bad we aren't in that position.

And it's not like we went to the playoffs, or had a winning record. Because if we had I would totally concede the point. We were 8-8, which is average, and we had an easy ass schedule last year. One of the easiest in the league. Our QB's impeded our success and lost games we should have won. That's the bottom line. My point is and remains that if they play even mediocre we'll win more than 8.

(Edit: And Duck, I just have to ask man, are you satisfied with our QB play? You keep mentioning these long drives to win games. Peterson won a couple on returns, Howlings won 1 (if you count a screen pass to Howlings as a brilliant QB pass or play then we've nothing left to talk about), we also had blocked kicks and stops on D. Those were what won those games, not brilliant QB play. Our QB's were atrocious in my opinion. You can look up any stat on sacks and INT's that will prove that. Or look up 3rd down conversions, etc. Our QB play was not even adequate. Not even mediocre. And way not acceptable. I want our QB's to do well, because I love our team, but I won't excuse them for sucking last year. Fewer QB mistakes and we win at least 2 more games in my opinion, possibly 3, because by the midway point we'd set an NFL record by losing the most games decided by 7 points or less)
 
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Krangodnzr

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Patrick Peterson was the worst defender on our roster last year for most of the season. As bad as AJ and Lenon were, PP21 was worse.
 

Darkside

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Patrick Peterson was the worst defender on our roster last year for most of the season. As bad as AJ and Lenon were, PP21 was worse.

Totally untrue. Paris Lenon isn't a corner, first of all. If he's guarding them we're in serious trouble. AJ was the worst of the lot. PP didn't get beat over the top once all year. For a rook that's a solid job, even though he gave up underneath stuff. And that was by design, and I would suspect, although I can't confirm, that Horton told him not to get beat deep, since that was our mission all year was make teams drive on us and not give up big plays. PP also never missed a tackle man. AJ sucked it up all year. He won't even beat out the rook(s) we drafted.
 

Phrazbit

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Patrick Peterson was the worst defender on our roster last year for most of the season. As bad as AJ and Lenon were, PP21 was worse.


... really? I am not claiming Peterson was good, or even average, but to claim he was the worst defender on the roster and anywhere near as bad as AJ Jefferson was, is downright comical.
 

Krangodnzr

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Totally untrue. Paris Lenon isn't a corner, first of all. If he's guarding them we're in serious trouble. AJ was the worst of the lot. PP didn't get beat over the top once all year. For a rook that's a solid job, even though he gave up underneath stuff. And that was by design, and I would suspect, although I can't confirm, that Horton told him not to get beat deep, since that was our mission all year was make teams drive on us and not give up big plays. PP also never missed a tackle man. AJ sucked it up all year. He won't even beat out the rook(s) we drafted.

Hakeem Nicks? Torched him.

Steve Smith? Torched him.

Go back and watch film, he was badly beat by both of them and there are quite a few others.

Patrick Peterson led our team in most passing yards given up at 900 attributed to him.
 

Krangodnzr

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... really? I am not claiming Peterson was good, or even average, but to claim he was the worst defender on the roster and anywhere near as bad as AJ Jefferson was, is downright comical.

Says the guy who thinks Skelton was good. That's comical.
 

Krangodnzr

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Totally untrue. Paris Lenon isn't a corner, first of all. If he's guarding them we're in serious trouble. AJ was the worst of the lot. PP didn't get beat over the top once all year. For a rook that's a solid job, even though he gave up underneath stuff. And that was by design, and I would suspect, although I can't confirm, that Horton told him not to get beat deep, since that was our mission all year was make teams drive on us and not give up big plays. PP also never missed a tackle man. AJ sucked it up all year. He won't even beat out the rook(s) we drafted.

BTW I know Lenon isn't a corner. Go back and read what I wrote and you will find that I said "defender".
 

Duckjake

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Our QB's had so many OT wins because they put us in that position to begin with by sucking so bad.

The guys on the other teams get paid to play just like ours do. They aren't going to lie down and let us walk all over them. 5 of our 8 losses were to playoff teams. We didn't suck that bad.

I don't which is better getting up 21-3 and hanging on to win 31-28 or getting down 13-0 and winning 21-20.

We had a killer offense in 2008 and 2009 and were still hanging on to win. That great offense sure didn't make our d any better. To me if you have a great defense the offense has very little effect on them. I know guys like you like to claim that defenses get worn out being on the field all the time when the O isn't working but if they are forcing as many 3 and outs and incompletions, and getting sacks and turnovers and getting the other guys off the field then they don't get worn out.
 
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Krangodnzr

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PP also never missed a tackle man. AJ sucked it up all year. He won't even beat out the rook(s) we drafted.

Also not true, PP21 had EIGHT missed tackles last year. More than DRC who had seven, though he did play 700 (!!!) less snaps than Peterson.

Jefferson had five missed tackles.
 

TJ

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Hakeem Nicks? Torched him.

Steve Smith? Torched him.

Go back and watch film, he was badly beat by both of them and there are quite a few others.

Patrick Peterson led our team in most passing yards given up at 900 attributed to him.

He also got picked on by San Francisco.

I remember PP21 being underwhelming the beginning of last season, then started showing his potential against the Cowboys.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Krangodnzr

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He also got picked on by San Francisco.

I remember PP21 being underwhelming the beginning of last season, then started showing his potential against the Cowboys.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oh yeah, the last 4 or 5 games Peterson picked it up.

But he was DREADFUL the first part of the season.
 

Duckjake

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Find me a post where I call Skelton a good player... please. Be my guest.

I find it comical that he thinks that Skelton isn't any good.

Double Deuce will prove the doubters wrong this season.
 

Krangodnzr

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I find it comical that he thinks that Skelton isn't any good.

Double Deuce will prove the doubters wrong this season.

I hope you're right, but by all measurements Skelton was awful last season.

I would love for ONE OF the QBs to step and become a good player, I care little which one.
 

Duckjake

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I hope you're right, but by all measurements Skelton was awful last season.

I would love for ONE OF the QBs to step and become a good player, I care little which one.

Except for one. Wins. I don't care about numbers. Just letters. W and L.

And for that reason I'm with you on the rest of your post. They're all Cardinals and I really don't care which one is the QB as long as we win.
 

bg7brd

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Except for one. Wins. I don't care about numbers. Just letters. W and L.

And for that reason I'm with you on the rest of your post. They're all Cardinals and I really don't care which one is the QB as long as we win.

I agree completely. W's trump all other stats.
 

Krangodnzr

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I agree completely. W's trump all other stats.

But you're not going to consistently get wins posting a 68 QB RATING.

As bad as Kolb was, the offense averaged more points. That's an objective fact. The defense improved, lowering the PPG by 10. That can't be ignored in this debate.

Ignoring the fact that John Skelton came through in the clutch, Kevin Kolb was more productive. I mean, I appreciate Skelton's work in the clutch, but if he doesn't improve, we can't win 4 OT games every year.

Additionally, football is a team game. 7-2 is nice, but Skelton didn't do it alone. The defense played dramatically better, and I don't think that had anything to do with Skelton. The defenders finally learned the scheme, they said as much. The offensive line improvement DID have something to do with Skelton, but even with that improvement, he was still less productive.

Whether it's Kolb or Skelton, both need to improve dramatically.
 

bg7brd

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I agree that they both need to improve and Skelton is by far a finished product. With that said, I'm very encouraged by what Skelton has been able to acomplish coming out of Fordham. 2-6 compared to 6-2 is a wide margin any way you slice it. The way Skelton plays in the 4th quarter proves that he has the skills to get it done. With seasoning and good coaching I think he can become a solid NFL QB. I haven't been impressed with Kolb so far. From what I've seen between the 2, I think Skelton has the brighter future.
 
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