Crabtree signed

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Isabella had a good sense of tracking the ball and catching it over his shoulder which is why he has been able to showcase his vertical threat ability but coming in he was a body catcher and heard through camp he is still trying to improve on that when running other routes... we do not not need balls popping up and turning into turnovers on slants routes because he does not use his hands properly

I just don’t understand getting to that level and having not developed your hands. I harp on it with our 8 and 9 year olds in flag football!

 

[Dayman]

I understand wanting vet receivers to help out Kyler, but Fitz and Kirk seemed like enough. I also want to see if Johnson is the real deal. It would be lame if he lost snaps to a guy like Crabtree.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I understand wanting vet receivers to help out Kyler, but Fitz and Kirk seemed like enough. I also want to see if Johnson is the real deal. It would be lame if he lost snaps to a guy like Crabtree.

WR is not a simple plug and play for rookies and usually requires some seasoning unless you're an anomaly like Anquan Boldin. Fitz is the only true vet and if he went down, having two second year WRs, a second pick and UFA, is not too reassuring. I would not say Johnson would be lame to forfeit some playing time to a guy like Crabtree early in his career. Crabtree's time as a pro is far from shabby if you look at his numbers and deserves some respect

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I still think we need that tall explosive legit number one type, which maybe Butler can become... though I know this offensive system does not really rely on that traditional approach

Agree...you still need someone that can out jump and out muscle a 50/50 ball...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I think Isabella had a good sense of tracking the ball and catching it over his shoulder which is why he has been able to showcase his vertical threat ability but coming in he was a body catcher and heard through camp he is still trying to improve on that when running other routes... we do not not need balls popping up and turning into turnovers on slants routes because he does not use his hands properly

I hear you but I really don't care how he catches it, as long as he does lol. His speed is gonna help us this season.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I hear you but I really don't care how he catches it, as long as he does lol. His speed is gonna help us this season.

Isabella is working his arse off trying to get better with his hands catching the ball. First time I saw an interview with him after the draft, he was at home with his sister operating a jugs machine. He spends time daily from what I understand learning to catch with his hands. This can be learned and he's doing his due diligence, but he's not there yet, but unlike a QB with accuracy this is something he can learn. The reason he has been able to get away with it in college was that the guy is so fast and really did not have to worry about a contested catch

 

[BigRedRage]

I think I read about how he has been doing that for a long time too. The dude has the effort for sure. The rest we will see.

 

[Solar7]

Your reference to our having a HOF receiver on our roster is a little bit of a stretch. (Fitz still seems ageless, but honestly, he's playing the back-nine of his career and he won't be around forever).

Additional word of caution: Just when you think WR is your deepest position is when a rash of injuries turns your strongest roster spot into a steaming pile of manure. Agree or not - a prevailing theory is that you're better off drafting a higher-rated WR than you are loading up on a so-so DL, OL or corner, regardless of need.

Sure, Fitz isn't what he was, but no matter how you slice it, he's a Hall of Famer, first ballot.

I'm just saying - the young guys looking so bad that we need to bring in a veteran of Crabtree's pedigree is not a good look. And especially taking reps away from them isn't particularly alluring. Even in a four-wide base package or whatever, Isabella and Johnson are only going to get so many looks, and now Butler is going to get none.

 

[Solar7]

I understand your point solar 7. MC knows this offense & can help the young WR's. Isabella has talent, lightning speed & great hands. He was behind after missing the game against the Chargers with the injury. Scored on the long TD, showing great concentration on the ball. We need a guy that can take the top off the defense with great hands. Isabella will do alot for this offense with his speed, watch all the ways KK uses him with motion, just to get the defenses confused. Color me excited.

Sure, it's fine to be excited about that, if he ever sees the field. Right now, when is he going to make it on? He's no more than 4th on the depth chart, and Sherfield has outplayed him, with coaches showing more faith in Keesean Johnson as well.

There's a good chance that the pick that essentially cost us our 13 overall, 3rd, and 5th round picks last year will end up as 6th on the depth chart.

I'm not saying he's going to be awful and his career is over, but I'd just have liked to get a lot more out of all of this investment in the position. This is a Keim problem again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sure, Fitz isn't what he was, but no matter how you slice it, he's a Hall of Famer, first ballot.

I'm just saying - the young guys looking so bad that we need to bring in a veteran of Crabtree's pedigree is not a good look. And especially taking reps away from them isn't particularly alluring. Even in a four-wide base package or whatever, Isabella and Johnson are only going to get so many looks, and now Butler is going to get none.

would you rather the young guys look bad... and we do nothing... and have a worse season? I get that it would fuel your pessimism, but the idea that this is a bad thing in terms of right now just seems like bitching just to bitch.

THE most important person on the field this season and moving forward is inarguably Murray. Throwing a bunch of unprepared WR rooks on the field and not trying to upgrade the position makes no sense from a long-term perspective with Murray. He's the important one... not the WRs.

 

[Solar7]

would you rather the young guys look bad... and we do nothing... and have a worse season? I get that it would fuel your pessimism, but the idea that this is a bad thing in terms of right now just seems like bitching just to bitch.

THE most important person on the field this season and moving forward is inarguably Murray. Throwing a bunch of unprepared WR rooks on the field and not trying to upgrade the position makes no sense from a long-term perspective with Murray. He's the important one... not the WRs.

I'm not *mad* about the Crabtree signing, I just think this stunts our rookies and young talent.

You're well aware I don't think we're going to be very good this year, and this team is desperately in need of future stars or even starters.

Not counting this year, since no one has played a real snap this year, we have exactly two players on this team with star potential on their rookie deal. Kirk and Baker. In the past four years, we have barely even drafted players that can start at their position. We don't fix that issue by drafting guys we aren't going to put on the field.

Edit: If you want to go back and feel bad, go here. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=team. 19 picks since the 2016 draft and only 3 players are expected to start on opening day. Most of them aren't even on the roster as depth anymore.

 

[oaken1]

I'm not *mad* about the Crabtree signing, I just think this stunts our rookies and young talent.

You're well aware I don't think we're going to be very good this year, and this team is desperately in need of future stars or even starters.

Not counting this year, since no one has played a real snap this year, we have exactly two players on this team with star potential on their rookie deal. Kirk and Baker. In the past four years, we have barely even drafted players that can start at their position. We don't fix that issue by drafting guys we aren't going to put on the field.

Edit: If you want to go back and feel bad, go here. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=team. 19 picks since the 2016 draft and only 3 players are expected to start on opening day. Most of them aren't even on the roster as depth anymore.

Crabs aint going to be stealing much of meaningful reps.
This offense requires lots of wr due to the tempo and the fact so many will be running deep route after deep route.
I betche we have 7 guys with 50 catches this season...a couple guys with more.
The young guys will get their opportunities in the rotation

 

[Solar7]

Crabs aint going to be stealing much of meaningful reps.
This offense requires lots of wr due to the tempo and the fact so many will be running deep route after deep route.
I betche we have 7 guys with 50 catches this season...a couple guys with more.
The young guys will get their opportunities in the rotation

Ah, more way-over-the top kind of stuff assuming our rookie QB is going to be a top ten QB next year. Because those are top ten QB numbers.

You realize Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Deshaun Watson, and Baker Mayfield did not throw for 350 completions last year, right? If 7 guys catch 50 balls, that's 350. A "couple" more, depending on what you're meaning with that, puts him into the category where he's essentially throwing for 4,000+ yards.

(And no, I know this isn't a Kyler thread, and I don't mean to derail it into one, I'm just saying that expecting 350+ completions is a tall order given the situation we're in as a team.)

 

[oaken1]

Ah, more way-over-the top kind of stuff assuming our rookie QB is going to be a top ten QB next year. Because those are top ten QB numbers.

You realize Phillip Rivers, Drew Brees, Deshaun Watson, and Baker Mayfield did not throw for 350 completions last year, right? If 7 guys catch 50 balls, that's 350. A "couple" more, depending on what you're meaning with that, puts him into the category where he's essentially throwing for 4,000+ yards.

(And no, I know this isn't a Kyler thread, and I don't mean to derail it into one, I'm just saying that expecting 350+ completions is a tall order given the situation we're in as a team.)

The coach said we are planning to run 90 plays a game....reasonable to expect more than 50 to be passes right?
That makes 800 passes on a season . if the kid only completes 50 percent thats 400 catches..... Since the kid is a hybrid of russell Wilson and jeseus h effing christ my guess is he will complete more than 50 percent.
4000 yds sounds reasonable... Why not expect it when we were sold on the idea the kid can walk on water...anything less is a failure based on the numbers k2 mentioned

 

[gimpy]

Sometimes people say things that really aren't meant to be taken literally, except for on this site, I guess?

Literally speaking that is. Or not.

I don't know. Maybe he was.

 

[Solar7]

The coach said we are planning to run 90 plays a game....reasonable to expect more than 50 to be passes right?
That makes 800 passes on a season . if the kid only completes 50 percent thats 400 catches..... Since the kid is a hybrid of russell Wilson and jeseus h effing christ my guess is he will complete more than 50 percent.
4000 yds sounds reasonable... Why not expect it when we were sold on the idea the kid can walk on water...anything less is a failure based on the numbers k2 mentioned

400 receptions is 17 more than Patrick Mahomes threw for last year. 800 pass attempts is 125 more than Ben Roethlisberger, who threw more passes than anyone in football.

Whatever the "plans" are, the numbers don't work out.

 

[Solar7]

While we're on this "50 receptions" number, let's go back and look at last year too. Only 74 players caught 50 balls or more. Are we really saying that our team alone is going to account for nearly 10% of the production of 50+ pass catchers?

 

[oaken1]

400 receptions is 17 more than Patrick Mahomes threw for last year. 800 pass attempts is 125 more than Ben Roethlisberger, who threw more passes than anyone in football.

Whatever the "plans" are, the numbers don't work out.

But......but....but.....

Transcendence......
Generational.......
No oline needed......
Playoffs.... Playoffs...... Playoffs.....

 

[cardpa]

The coach said we are planning to run 90 plays a game....reasonable to expect more than 50 to be passes right?
That makes 800 passes on a season . if the kid only completes 50 percent thats 400 catches..... Since the kid is a hybrid of russell Wilson and jeseus h effing christ my guess is he will complete more than 50 percent.
4000 yds sounds reasonable... Why not expect it when we were sold on the idea the kid can walk on water...anything less is a failure based on the numbers k2 mentioned

Absolutely ridiculous to make a statement like that. In 2012 the NE Patriots ran an NFL record 74 plays per game. The Saints ran 71 per game in 2011. Last year the Ravens top the list at 70 plays per game. Kingsbury is somehow going to run 20 more plays per game than the top team last season and 16 more plays per game than the top number ever in the NFL? The Patriots TOP was 30:55 per game. They ran a play every 25 seconds. At 90 plays per game and using the same TOP this means KK would have to run a play every 20 seconds or 5 seconds faster. I don't believe it.

 

[Solar7]

Absolutely ridiculous to make a statement like that. In 2012 the NE Patriots ran an NFL record 74 plays per game. The Saints ran 71 per game in 2011. Last year the Ravens top the list at 70 plays per game. Kingsbury is somehow going to run 20 more plays per game than the top team last season and 16 more plays per game than the top number ever in the NFL? The Patriots TOP was 30:55 per game. They ran a play every 25 seconds. At 90 plays per game and using the same TOP this means KK would have to run a play every 20 seconds or 5 seconds faster. I don't believe it.

I don't know, if the starting defense looks like they did last Thursday, he might be right on. Easy to get in a lot of offensive plays when the opposing team only needs 1-2 downs to score.

 

[Proximo]

I don't know, if the starting defense looks like they did last Thursday, he might be right on. Easy to get in a lot of offensive plays when the opposing team only needs 1-2 downs to score.

Well, yes, but if our starting O performs like it did, there will be a lot of 3 and outs also. Let's just hope that last game was a fluke and not a coming attraction for the season.

 

[oaken1]

Absolutely ridiculous to make a statement like that. In 2012 the NE Patriots ran an NFL record 74 plays per game. The Saints ran 71 per game in 2011. Last year the Ravens top the list at 70 plays per game. Kingsbury is somehow going to run 20 more plays per game than the top team last season and 16 more plays per game than the top number ever in the NFL? The Patriots TOP was 30:55 per game. They ran a play every 25 seconds. At 90 plays per game and using the same TOP this means KK would have to run a play every 20 seconds or 5 seconds faster. I don't believe it.

It is ridiculous... But thats the shinola being shoveled... If they even get close we should be expecting the moon and stars on offense.
More likely k2 is going to find out what his foot tastes like

 

[Hoodhero]

K2 never said that offense will be running 90 plays a game. That was David Johnson & his usual hyperbole reasons for 1000 - 1000 season. Gambo was also in breaking news mode that he heard it from some players that helped extend narrative.

Kingsbury said the Cardinals aren't going to play as fast as they can every play. The intention, he said, is to find a pace that'll be comfortable for Murray, one that gives him a chance to see and evaluate the defense.

"I want him to be able to work in a good rhythm," Kingsbury said.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Absolutely ridiculous to make a statement like that. In 2012 the NE Patriots ran an NFL record 74 plays per game. The Saints ran 71 per game in 2011. Last year the Ravens top the list at 70 plays per game. Kingsbury is somehow going to run 20 more plays per game than the top team last season and 16 more plays per game than the top number ever in the NFL? The Patriots TOP was 30:55 per game. They ran a play every 25 seconds. At 90 plays per game and using the same TOP this means KK would have to run a play every 20 seconds or 5 seconds faster. I don't believe it.

If our D plays like they have been our offense will have way more opportunities than the offenses you listed. Oakland didn’t need to run more than a handful of plays to score and then K1 was right back out there.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Sure, it's fine to be excited about that, if he ever sees the field. Right now, when is he going to make it on? He's no more than 4th on the depth chart, and Sherfield has outplayed him, with coaches showing more faith in Keesean Johnson as well.

There's a good chance that the pick that essentially cost us our 13 overall, 3rd, and 5th round picks last year will end up as 6th on the depth chart.

I'm not saying he's going to be awful and his career is over, but I'd just have liked to get a lot more out of all of this investment in the position. This is a Keim problem again.

Solar 7, I've had the opportunity to witness an "Air Raid" offense as a fan when the creator brought it to division 1 college football. Hal Mumme brought it to the University of Kentucky in 1997, all his assistants passed it down. Mike Leach was the OC under Mumme at Kentucky, although Mumme called the plays. Mike Leach had a QB at Texas Tech by the name of Kliff Kingsbury, sound familiar lol? Anyways, players with speed, no matter where they are on the depth chart, this offense finds a way to get them on the field. Deception on go routes, reverses, fake reverses, trick plays you name it, I've seen it, been a Kentucky season ticket holder for many many yrs now. This offense requires depth at WR, I'm surprised we aren't keeping 8 WR's because of the many routes they have to constantly run? You need fresh young legs & bodies. It gets players in space, so one with speed will pay huge dividends. Trust me, Isabella wasn't a wasted pick, as long as he doesn't get injured, he will play many snaps each game. Every WR we keep will play as long as they're not injured. KK has took this offense & evolved it from how Hal Mumme used it. Go back & watch some Texas Tech tape, this man can call plays, he knows how to get players in space. It's what he lives for. Why he doesn't sleep & is in the office designing plays before the sun rises each day. He will figure out how to use it in the NFL, I have no doubts. I'm worried about the defense, not one bit about the offense. This yr, we compete & make it exciting to watch giving us hope for the future, next season we get our 100 million in dead cap money back to spend on building this team. If next season SK doesn't fix both the OL & DL with all that cap room, then he should be fired.
Hope this helps ease a few of your concerns?