Crazy GM's

[Cheesebeef]

EK. I disagree with almost every point in this post.

The Suns had targeted Googs BEFORE the Dice fiasco. They had intended to sign both players in that ill-fated off-season. He played well, too. Until injury ruined his career. Injury can ruin any career and make any signing look like a bad one.

This actually isn't true - we were targeting Pippen before the Dice fiasco. Then, the CBA came down and it was apparent that we weren't going to be able to sign TWO MAX guys and we fixated on a plan of Dice and Longley - then Dice made his decision and we did panic signing Googs. Make no doubt about it, signing Googs was panic and nothing more.

I think its absolutely silly to think that the Suns were giving Marbs a max deal just to spite Kidd. Marbury was considered one of the top players in the game and a franchise player. He was also a good citizen with the Suns. I'm sure no one on either side of that deal would have considered anything less than a max deal. He imploded after the trade to NY. But none of that had anything to do with Kidd.

I totally agree with you here though - I don't believe any GM, especially one raised by someone like Jerry, who is basically the gold standard for owners in pro sports as far as class and integrity, even to a fault, would make such a contract based on such a petty reason. I think the rational in thinking he would is based on an EMOTIONAL belief, but not the actual signing.

 

[Forrestham]

From the previous post in a shrt season the Suns would have been so much better if they would have just decided they might be bad and get a higher draft pick. Instead they signed Longley (Fortuneately the Knicks are in the league) and Gubliotta was a waste. The following year we got the legendary Penny. In this day and age, you are better to let a good player walk then to be stuck with a bad contract. That is why the Suns have given away picks.
Seems like they have learned their lesson. They dont need to be overpaying people or to make an over the top offer just because there is 1 stupid GM

 

[Errntknght]

JCSunsfan, "EK. I disagree with almost every point in this post."

I'm not surprised - I think you have disagreed with them all before. I guess that means we are both consistent.


cheesebeef, I don't believe any GM... would make such a contract based on such a petty reason.

I wouldn't guess he would admit it, even to himself. Marbs certainly wasn't such a success as a Sun to justify the extension he got - so something strange had to be going on. In retrospect, I'll admit that its possible that BC was a step ahead of me - signing Stephon to that contract with the intention of trading him to the Knicks, probably figuring he couldn't trade him with a short contract and that Isaiah wouldn't care about the bucks involved. But at the time he signed Marbs to the extension the Kidd theory seemed the only explanation for such a ridiculous contract. Hopefully, you don't actually believe that BC signed Marbury to that extension because he valued him that highly then totally reversed himself six months later.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think you're right about emotional decisions, George, but you don't have to go further than the Suns to see them. I always thought the decisions to get Penny and Googs were emotional. In Penny's case it was because of the player he had been and in Googs, it was the reaction to losing McDyess.

I even considered Marion's and Marbury's extensions to be emotionally based. Particularly Marbury's - they wanted to pay him more than Jason Kidd was getting so they could say they had the 'best' PG - highest paid means best, right?

I believe that Barbosa's contract was emotionally motivated, too, the same way as Marion's was. Both were Suns draft picks and the more we pay them the more we confirm that we draft well. In Barb's case I think they also wanted to erase the lingering idea that they pinched 'pennies' in dealing with JJ last year and the year before. It's even possible that they are feeling like they cannot retain Boris and they wanted to salvage something quickly. Of course, there is some hope that Leandro will be worth his contract, unlike Shawn or Marbury.

Wow, while I definitely agree that the Phoenix Suns have made some mistakes and being out contracts I don't believe for a second with most of the above post.

The choice with Shawn Marion was simple. They could give him a maximum contract extension, lose him, sign and trade him, or match a maximum offer to keep him (probably frontloaded). Somebody would have given him maximum money the following summer. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind, and all of the sportswriters agreed. Obviously those guys aren't always right, but I believe they were in this case.

I actually don't think the Shawn Marion contract has been that bad for this team. I've been willing to part ways with him in the past and still would be willing to do it, but there's no way I would just give him away. The Phoenix Suns will have to get a good package in return to make me happy with a deal that trades away Shawn Marion.

I believe the same is true with Barbosa. If he had not signed an extension somebody would offer him the same or more next season. The problem I have with his extension (I know I've repeated this a bunch of times) is that I wish they would have taken the Boris Diaw/JJ approach with him and just given Boris Diaw the extra money to get his deal done. Hopefully one of those sides will blanket and Boris Diaw will get extended before the deadline.

I wouldn't guess he would admit it, even to himself. Marbs certainly wasn't such a success as a Sun to justify the extension he got - so something strange had to be going on. In retrospect, I'll admit that its possible that BC was a step ahead of me - signing Stephon to that contract with the intention of trading him to the Knicks, probably figuring he couldn't trade him with a short contract and that Isaiah wouldn't care about the bucks involved. But at the time he signed Marbs to the extension the Kidd theory seemed the only explanation for such a ridiculous contract. Hopefully, you don't actually believe that BC signed Marbury to that extension because he valued him that highly then totally reversed himself six months later.

This has always been my contention regarding the Marbury extension. I think either way they figured it would not be a problem. They knew they had a taker in New York. I mean I won't pretend that it was completely risk-free. New York could have traded for another point guard or someone else giving away all of their decent trade commodities. I do think that's how BC figured it though. Jeez, Isaiah Thomas is an idiot. I honestly wonder where this Phoenix Suns organization would be today if he was never the New York GM.

Joe Mama

 

[JCSunsfan]

This actually isn't true - we were targeting Pippen before the Dice fiasco. Then, the CBA came down and it was apparent that we weren't going to be able to sign TWO MAX guys and we fixated on a plan of Dice and Longley - then Dice made his decision and we did panic signing Googs. Make no doubt about it, signing Googs was panic and nothing more.



I totally agree with you here though - I don't believe any GM, especially one raised by someone like Jerry, who is basically the gold standard for owners in pro sports as far as class and integrity, even to a fault, would make such a contract based on such a petty reason. I think the rational in thinking he would is based on an EMOTIONAL belief, but not the actual signing.

JC, who is a straight shooter, said plainly after it was all over that they NEVER intended to sign Pippen. He said that Googs was ALWAYS the target. Now, you can choose not to believe him. But that is what he said.

BTW, we overpaid for Googs only in restrospect. We got him for less that market value at the time since he turned down a larger contract from Minnesota to come to Phoenix.

 

[Errntknght]

BTW, we overpaid for Googs only in restrospect. We got him for less that market value at the time since he turned down a larger contract from Minnesota to come to Phoenix.

I don't remember him turning down a bigger offer but, in any case, I thought he was overpaid at the time for what he would bring to the Suns - a slow down of the running game. The great thing about Dice is that he could run the floor as well as operate well in the halfcourt.

In Penny's case I thought we were overpaying him because his knees were a known risk and what did happen was quite a likely turn of events. Googs injury was a fluke and its not that that I'm referring to when I say we overpaid him.

I absolutely do not agree that Marion is a max player - you cannot afford max players who have no leadership, avoid physical contact and drop off in the playoffs. All of those things were evident in Shawn's game when he was extended. It is probably smart of Shawn to avoid contact for his own preservation but it does reduce his contribution, particularly in the clutch and the playoffs - and makes him worth a lesser salary.

 

[JCSunsfan]

BTW, we overpaid for Googs only in restrospect. We got him for less that market value at the time since he turned down a larger contract from Minnesota to come to Phoenix.

I don't remember him turning down a bigger offer but, in any case, I thought he was overpaid at the time for what he would bring to the Suns - a slow down of the running game. The great thing about Dice is that he could run the floor as well as operate well in the halfcourt.

Just a FYI.

GUGLIOTTA'S SEEN BAD, LIKES VIEW WITH SUNS
January 25, 1999 •• 882 words •• ID: pho63638096
Tom Gugliotta won't say it, but he's seen the dregs of the NBA. A team that won 24 games while he was in Washington. A short stopover at Golden State with a terrible Warriors team that won 26. Two trades in his third season - from Washington, to the Warriors, to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who would win 21 games that year. Is it really such a great mystery that Gugliotta passed on the opportunity to sign a seven-year, $86.5 million contract with the Minnesota . . . .

http://localsearch.azcentral.com/sp?keywords=gugliotta