Current Defensive Line

[DaisyCutter]

Haggans, Stewart, LaBoy, Branch, Bryan Robinson, Beisel, Ware, Fransisco

1st round pick - DCR
2nd round pick - C.Campbell

I got eight guys that have started in this league, a first round draft pick, and a second round draft pick. All of which are not considered starters.

You're kidding, right? In Beisel's 7 NFL seasons, he's started in 19, and 9 of those came all the way back in 2004. Alan Branch has 0 career starts, and only appeared in 11 games his rookie season. Matt Ware has started 1 NFL game, and has 0 career INTs despite appearing in 57 contests. And he was terrible any time he was forced into action due to a string of injuries. LaBoy didn't start a single game last season, and has never been a 16 game starter. Aaron Francisco has 5 career starts in 3 NFL seasons, and was never in competition with massive free agent bust Terrance Holt.

There's depth, and there's quality depth. We have some bodies. I personally think that Francisco might end up starting ahead of Rolle (or at least should). I like Beisel, Haggans, and Robinson, as well.

But this isn't the depth that teams like the Philadelphia Eagles and New England Patriots are able to roll out. This isn't to mention that Robinson and LaBoy are being put into a 3-4 defense that they have little if any pro experience in playing.

You'd like to have a defense where you have veterans that are starters and play at a high level, and a group of backup players that have 2-4 years in your system. That's quality depth. But you can't depend on Alan Branch, Calais Cambell, or Kenny Iwebema to produce at any level this season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You're kidding, right? In Beisel's 7 NFL seasons, he's started in 19, and 9 of those came all the way back in 2004. Alan Branch has 0 career starts, and only appeared in 11 games his rookie season. Matt Ware has started 1 NFL game, and has 0 career INTs despite appearing in 57 contests. And he was terrible any time he was forced into action due to a string of injuries. LaBoy didn't start a single game last season, and has never been a 16 game starter. Aaron Francisco has 5 career starts in 3 NFL seasons, and was never in competition with massive free agent bust Terrance Holt.

There's depth, and there's quality depth. We have some bodies. I personally think that Francisco might end up starting ahead of Rolle (or at least should). I like Beisel, Haggans, and Robinson, as well.

But this isn't the depth that teams like the Philadelphia Eagles and New England Patriots are able to roll out. This isn't to mention that Robinson and LaBoy are being put into a 3-4 defense that they have little if any pro experience in playing.

You'd like to have a defense where you have veterans that are starters and play at a high level, and a group of backup players that have 2-4 years in your system. That's quality depth. But you can't depend on Alan Branch, Calais Cambell, or Kenny Iwebema to produce at any level this season.

Keep in mind I am comparing this to the rest of the division. The NFC West.

I am still looking for better depth out of those teams and I don't see it.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Keep in mind I am comparing this to the rest of the division. The NFC West.

I am still looking for better depth out of those teams and I don't see it.

Meh. I guess. Depth only matters if most of your starters get hurt. The Seahawks probably have a better DE rotation and an equivalent DT rotation. But their starters (especially at LB and CB) have been more productive recently.

The Rams really had their depth tested last season, but the result may be that they're better for it, with more experienced backup personnel. I honestly can't tell you, because I don't watch a lot of Rams games.

But I can say that the Rams are probably better than the Cards at 2 starting positions, and that's MLB and pass-rushing DE. Will Witherspoon might be the most underrated linebacker in the NFL. He's a beast.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Will Witherspoon might be the most underrated linebacker in the NFL. He's a beast.

When healthy.....he is indeed a beast. I can't believe he is playing MLB, but he seems to be doing well.

 

[vinnymac]

1. The Rams DL is a mess and I will stick to that. I don't seem to remember the Rams getting better as the year went on. Actually, I remember us giving them a thumping the last game of the season. And save that "injuries" talk for the talking heads in the media that are still clinging to the greatest show on turf. Just remember the Cardinals were not too far behind in the injury category last year. So, the injuries are an excuse that the Rams can use, and the Cardinals can't? Double standard. And Howie Long's kid is just that.

2. The Seahawks have been given credit, and praise. The have been in the spotlight, and touted as the best team in the NFC west for a LOOOOONG time. There due credit has been given to them. But I'll be damn, if they are going to get the free ride from me these days. There DL doesn't make the discussion.

My recalection of the matter is that the rams were starting 3rd teamers to field a team. I guess I am the only one not wearing Rose Color Glasses with the Rams. You will see a much improve Ram's team this season.

 

[DaisyCutter]

My recalection of the matter is that the rams were starting 3rd teamers to field a team. I guess I am the only one not wearing Rose Color Glasses with the Rams. You will see a much improve Ram's team this season.

Heck, Lindy's has the Cards finishing 4th in the division. I think that the Rams' defense will be better (though I still have real questions about their secondary), but I don't know about their offense. I love Steven Jackson, and I kind of like Marc Bulger. But can Torry Holt still break the double-coverages that will be rolled his way? Who's playing on the other side?

I'm interested in seeing how Al Saunders integrates into the Rams, as well. Can he and Linehan get along?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Heck, Lindy's has the Cards finishing 4th in the division. I think that the Rams' defense will be better (though I still have real questions about their secondary), but I don't know about their offense. I love Steven Jackson, and I kind of like Marc Bulger. But can Torry Holt still break the double-coverages that will be rolled his way? Who's playing on the other side?

I'm interested in seeing how Al Saunders integrates into the Rams, as well. Can he and Linehan get along?

The only question you have is the secondary ? How about thier linebackers ?

Forget the fact I that beside Witherspoon they have no one. But what about depth? Who replaces Witherspoon when he goes down ?

On offense they have Torry Holt, and a handicapped (handicapped by the current OL) Stephen Jackson.

Holt, regardless of what he does against the other 30 teams in the league, will alway kill the Cardinals, and is always a threat even at his age.

Jackson is a beast, but his line gives him very little support.

Then there is Bulger, who will not make it through the season cause he has not made it a full 16 games in a long time. Plus his OL stinks, and can't pass block.

Some surprises I did see on the Rams roster:

1. First thing I noticed. They have A LOT of Cardinal cast aways on the team. Nick Leckey, David Macklin, Brandon Gorin

2. They signed Trent Green as a back...forgot about that. That is a good move on their part.

3. I never know Anthony Becht was THAT big. Height: 6-5 Weight: 280

4. What ever happened to Dane Looker ?

 

[DaisyCutter]

The only question you have is the secondary ? How about thier linebackers ?

Forget the fact I that beside Witherspoon they have no one. But what about depth? Who replaces Witherspoon when he goes down ?

I like their linebackers, even after Witherspoon. I think that Pinotinoisomoa has been overrated in the past, but he's an active player if he can stay healthy. But I love Chris Draft on the strong side. I think he's an active player and a force.

There's not much more to say about them. Their backups are young, but they got some experience last season following the injuries.

Just a point of fact: Marc Bulger finished a 16-game schedule in 2006. But that was the first time he's done it in his career.

 

[Skkorpion]

Rugby, for the record, Cards skeptic Mike Jurecki agrees with you, not the rest of us, about our front seven. He gushes about them, liking the whole package blend of proven veterans and young talent.

Appreciate your optimism but my fan battle scars want the salve of proof before healing can take place.

 

[BigRedRage]

You're kidding, right? In Beisel's 7 NFL seasons, he's started in 19, and 9 of those came all the way back in 2004. Alan Branch has 0 career starts, and only appeared in 11 games his rookie season. Matt Ware has started 1 NFL game, and has 0 career INTs despite appearing in 57 contests. And he was terrible any time he was forced into action due to a string of injuries. LaBoy didn't start a single game last season, and has never been a 16 game starter. Aaron Francisco has 5 career starts in 3 NFL seasons, and was never in competition with massive free agent bust Terrance Holt.

There's depth, and there's quality depth. We have some bodies. I personally think that Francisco might end up starting ahead of Rolle (or at least should). I like Beisel, Haggans, and Robinson, as well.

But this isn't the depth that teams like the Philadelphia Eagles and New England Patriots are able to roll out. This isn't to mention that Robinson and LaBoy are being put into a 3-4 defense that they have little if any pro experience in playing.

You'd like to have a defense where you have veterans that are starters and play at a high level, and a group of backup players that have 2-4 years in your system. That's quality depth. But you can't depend on Alan Branch, Calais Cambell, or Kenny Iwebema to produce at any level this season.

Personally after watching Biesel during fill in roles with us I am very high on him.

 

[BigRedRage]

My recalection of the matter is that the rams were starting 3rd teamers to field a team. I guess I am the only one not wearing Rose Color Glasses with the Rams. You will see a much improve Ram's team this season.

and almost beat us

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Appreciate your optimism but my fan battle scars want the salve of proof before healing can take place.

A salve is a medical ointment used to soothe the head or other body surface. A popular eye medicine known as "Phrygian powder" was one of Laodicea's sources of wealth. The medical school at Laodicea was famous for the preparation and use of this eye salve.


A drawing salve is a salve used to treat boils, ingrown toenails, splinters, etc. It is also known as Black Ointment, or Icthyol Salve. The main ingredients are often ichthammol, phenyl alcohol, or arnica montana, and several familiar herbs such as echinacea or calendula. Many people can use this product to help treat pimples and other skin defects.

Now that I understand what the heck that means.....yeah I can see that. I just can't hold back the hope and optimism.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

and almost beat us

Yeah, in St.Louis.

But we delt to them at home.

 

[black]

A salve is a medical ointment used to soothe the head or other body surface. A popular eye medicine known as "Phrygian powder" was one of Laodicea's sources of wealth. The medical school at Laodicea was famous for the preparation and use of this eye salve.


A drawing salve is a salve used to treat boils, ingrown toenails, splinters, etc. It is also known as Black Ointment, or Icthyol Salve. The main ingredients are often ichthammol, phenyl alcohol, or arnica montana, and several familiar herbs such as echinacea or calendula. Many people can use this product to help treat pimples and other skin defects.

Now that I understand what the heck that means.....yeah I can see that. I just can't hold back the hope and optimism.

He meant neosporin.

 

[BigRedRage]

Yeah, in St.Louis.

But we delt to them at home.

I was in florida sitting at the disney ESPN bar with 1000 patriot fans and one cardinal fan. We sat on our stools next to the smallest tv in the house and proceeded to watch our team get worked by the 3rd stringer rams.

The guy has season tix but lives in cali, big fan.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I was in florida sitting at the disney ESPN bar with 1000 patriot fans and one cardinal fan. We sat on our stools next to the smallest tv in the house and proceeded to watch our team get worked by the 3rd stringer rams.

The guy has season tix but lives in cali, big fan.

Just remember.

The Seahawks were a fumbled snap away from getting worked by the 3rd stringer Rams as well.

I still can't believe the Rams lost that game.

 

[Duckjake]

You'd like to have a defense where you have veterans that are starters and play at a high level, and a group of backup players that have 2-4 years in your system. That's quality depth.

That's what you'd like but for most teams there's no way they could fit that kind of depth under the salary cap.

That said we do have more guys with experience in the league or in our system that are bona fide NFL players on defense than at any time in recent memory. (I remember when the Cards were starting 3rd stringers and telling us they were studs on defense.)

Doesn't guarantee anything but it does provide more hope for the upcoming season than usual.

 

[DaisyCutter]

That's what you'd like but for most teams there's no way they could fit that kind of depth under the salary cap.

That said we do have more guys with experience in the league or in our system that are bona fide NFL players on defense than at any time in recent memory. (I remember when the Cards were starting 3rd stringers and telling us they were studs on defense.)

Doesn't guarantee anything but it does provide more hope for the upcoming season than usual.

Sure there is--but not really around the entire team, perhaps.

The problem for the Cards is that their mid- and late-round picks have been busts far too often. If picks that would be in their RFA or final contract years had worked out and remained on the roster (guys like Lance Mitchell, Daryl Blackstock, Jon Lewis, and Brandon Johnson), or guys that could have been kept on the roster (but remained familiar with the system) for their second contracts (for us they'd be guys like Kenny King, Tony Gilbert, Dennis Johnson, and Nate Dwyer), then we'd be in just that situation.

I think that we as fans become used to having our entire backup unit be low-level free agent signings, but that's not usually the case across the NFL. If anything, the Cards are forced to pay for lesser talent (guys that weren't good enough to be depth players on their original clubs) or more for equivalent talent because their "farm system" of low-round picks has failed to produce the backbone of the team.

A guy like Blackstock would be making $400,000 or so this season. Because he didn't work out, we had to pay Travis LaBoy some $3 million (or whatever). You tell me which is not sustainable under the salary cap.

 

[Duckjake]

A guy like Blackstock would be making $400,000 or so this season. Because he didn't work out, we had to pay Travis LaBoy some $3 million (or whatever). You tell me which is not sustainable under the salary cap.

On the other hand you get guys like Pace and BJ, who were key backups, who we can't afford to keep. And by "afford" I mean won't pay as much for that player at that position as another team will.

But you are right on about the later round draft picks. Strangely that is something that has transcended the coaching changes. Tobin, McGinnis, and Green all had failures with their late round selections.

 

[earthsci]

A guy like Blackstock would be sitting out for a higher contract if he were any good.

FTFY

 

[DaisyCutter]

On the other hand you get guys like Pace and BJ, who were key backups, who we can't afford to keep. And by "afford" I mean won't pay as much for that player at that position as another team will.

But you are right on about the later round draft picks. Strangely that is something that has transcended the coaching changes. Tobin, McGinnis, and Green all had failures with their late round selections.

Yup. That makes it even more important that those low-round guys work out. Ideally, you have developed picks step in there for guys like Pace and Johnson (that's what happens with teams like the Colts and Packers, who seem to only lose players every free agency period, but don't have to re-set their entire roster). If those picks can't step in as starters, then at least you have some money to spend on mid-tier free agents.

That takes time, of course. The Cards are behind the 8-ball for a couple years and need to hope that picks like Rinehart, Patrick, Iwebema, etc. work out. The positive is that they have veteran players in short-term contracts--like Haggans and Stewart and Bryan Robinson, who are maybe overpaid a little this season, but won't be a long-term albatross. Also, in the past veterans like that wouldn't have even considered Arizona, and so the Cards would have had to stettle for undrafted free agent rookies like Fred Wakefield.

It's easier to replace the Paces and Bryant Johnsons on your roster if you also don't have to worry about replacing the Blackstocks, Brandon Johnsons, Kendrick Clancys, Milford Browns, etc., etc.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's easier to replace the Paces and Bryant Johnsons on your roster if you also don't have to worry about replacing the Blackstocks, Brandon Johnsons, Kendrick Clancys, Milford Browns, etc., etc.

Darn tootin!

As I said, our depth is pretty awesome this year.

 

[Duckjake]

It's easier to replace the Paces and Bryant Johnsons on your roster if you also don't have to worry about replacing the Blackstocks, Brandon Johnsons, Kendrick Clancys, Milford Browns, etc., etc.

How could you leave out Buster Davis!?!?!?

 

[football karma]

Yup. That makes it even more important that those low-round guys work out. Ideally, you have developed picks step in there for guys like Pace and Johnson (that's what happens with teams like the Colts and Packers, who seem to only lose players every free agency period, but don't have to re-set their entire roster). If those picks can't step in as starters, then at least you have some money to spend on mid-tier free agents.

the Colts, Packers, et al also miss with late round guys -- but your point is well taken.

A team like the Colts (and Steelers, Pats, and others) has been running the same basic system for so long that the organization from top to bottom understands the types of players they are looking for -- it increases significantly the odds of finding a late round guy.

For the Cards -- just about the time an area scout figured out what kinds of players fit the system, it was time to change the coaching staff.

 

[vinnymac]

Heck, Lindy's has the Cards finishing 4th in the division. I think that the Rams' defense will be better (though I still have real questions about their secondary), but I don't know about their offense. I love Steven Jackson, and I kind of like Marc Bulger. But can Torry Holt still break the double-coverages that will be rolled his way? Who's playing on the other side?

I'm interested in seeing how Al Saunders integrates into the Rams, as well. Can he and Linehan get along?

The Rams offense is the strongest part of their team. The Rams have two good recievers. They have great runningback in Stephen Jackson. Randy McMicheal is a very good TE. Orlando Pace is returning to the o-line. I am thinking the Rams will be alright on offense. Plus the brought in Al Saunders to run the offense. There shouldn't be any confirtation at all.