Dalton to Washington

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Umm... the Chargers we a super bowl team not too long ago. Unlike Minnesota and Moss.

The Chargers were a Super Bowl team 8 years ago which got thrashed by the Niners. Minnesota and Moss had one of the greatest offenses and single season performances at 15-1 ever his rookie year and were a chip shot field goal away from going to the Super Bowl versus Denver his rookie season. Then they also went to the NFC Title game two years later versus the Giants - both of those when it wasn't just the Randy show - but those two years he lit up the skies and was one of the main reasons their offenses were close to impossible to stop. Don't see the point you're making here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Pariah
What was the Cardinal's record when Boston blew up?

7-9 and 5-3 to end the season after Jake finally got his head out of his ass after the first half of torture that season.

 

[Renz]

This is so lame. Every time another team makes a trade or signs a free agent someone starts a thread crying how "we should have done that" or "other teams are doing this blah blah blah".

Should the Cards sign a DL or CB just for the sake of signing someone? Let's wait until someone worth signing comes along before the doom and gloom sets in.

 

[Sandan]

I know you understand what I was saying it just convient to ignore it.

Sure good players get good stats and that generally means a team wil do better.

My point was that players who are ONLY concerned with their own performance/visability can seriously hurt a team.

The emphasis here is on the ONLY, I see people focusing on the the rest of it and missing that critical part. ie, It's great if a player sets himself a challenge, like Wilson wanting to make the pro bowl. It is not good if he does it at the expense of his teamates.

Yes Rice is doing better know, but he has also decided to make more effort on playing the run. It was NEVER about him not being able to play the run, it was all about not wanting to.

While here all he wanted to do was get his sack numbers as high as he could to increase his FA value when he left. He didn't care what the teams record was as he wanted out, providing he got his sacks. The opponents could run for all the TDs they wanted.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
The Chargers were a Super Bowl team 8 years ago which got thrashed by the Niners. Minnesota and Moss had one of the greatest offenses and single season performances at 15-1 ever his rookie year and were a chip shot field goal away from going to the Super Bowl versus Denver his rookie season. Then they also went to the NFC Title game two years later versus the Giants - both of those when it wasn't just the Randy show - but those two years he lit up the skies and was one of the main reasons their offenses were close to impossible to stop. Don't see the point you're making here.

What are you talking about? So SD gets beat in the SB and now they aren't worthy to be considered a good team? True, SD has been rebuilding since the super bowl year but so have a lot of teams (including your beloved Randy-show Vikings). My point was to refute a rediculous post about the Chargers always being at home in January because they have "great chemistry". That's just silly and lame-o on many levels. Hell, SD has the biggest head case in the game right now with David Boston!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by nidan
I know you understand what I was saying it just convient to ignore it.

Sure good players get good stats and that generally means a team wil do better.

My point was that players who are ONLY concerned with their own performance/visability can seriously hurt a team.

The emphasis here is on the ONLY, I see people focusing on the the rest of it and missing that critical part. ie, It's great if a player sets himself a challenge, like Wilson wanting to make the pro bowl. It is not good if he does it at the expense of his teamates.

Yes Rice is doing better know, but he has also decided to make more effort on playing the run. It was NEVER about him not being able to play the run, it was all about not wanting to.

While here all he wanted to do was get his sack numbers as high as he could to increase his FA value when he left. He didn't care what the teams record was as he wanted out, providing he got his sacks. The opponents could run for all the TDs they wanted.

That's ridiculous. No player wants, nor can, put up Pro-Bowl stats on an eleven-loss team. To say, "Well, they can want stats, but they also have to want to win" doesn't mean anything. These guys are professional athletes, and they all want to win. What I'm saying is that this team is trading the desire to win ("non-stop motor", great locker-room presence, team player, etc., all the standard Graves-responses) for players with the ability to win. Chris Hovan has the best motor in the league, but also has the talent to back up that desire to win. Fred Wakefield might be the best guy in the world in the lockeroom, but this team is never going to win 10 games with him as the starter. Frankly, I think a team would be challenged to win 8 games with him starting. Same with Kyle Vanden Bosch.

Simeon wanted to get his numbers up because he decided, and not without merit, that the Cardinals had no desire to win. It's difficult to argue with him after seeing what happened after '97-'98. Takeo Spikes languished in Cincy, and then took the first train out of there when he got the chance for the same reason.

Honestly, players want more money to come here because we're losers. It's the "losing surcharge" if you will. Duane Starks got it when he came out, as did Grutt, Kendall, and Freddie Jones. They're going to have to take less money when they leave because their production is lower here than if they were on a contending team.

 

[cardzfan]

Why is it that every player we do not sign is the one we should get? The Chiefs desperately need a better pass and run defense. Did they sign Dalton? What about Chicago or Detroit? Minnesota had a bad defense too. We lost a starting end. Filling a roster spot with another back up tackle makes no sense. Mike Shanahan is pretty sharp. If he unloaded Dalton, any pick is worth more than Daltons ability.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Rivercard
What are you talking about? So SD gets beat in the SB and now they aren't worthy to be considered a good team? True, SD has been rebuilding since the super bowl year but so have a lot of teams (including your beloved Randy-show Vikings). My point was to refute a rediculous post about the Chargers always being at home in January because they have "great chemistry". That's just silly and lame-o on many levels. Hell, SD has the biggest head case in the game right now with David Boston!

River, what I was saying was that they had the most harmonious lockerroom in the league under the coach before Marty (forgot his name). Despite having "great leaders" and "high motor players" like Marcelleus Wiley and Junior Seau, I don't think they've been to the playoffs since that Super Bowl appearance, and 8 years is an eternity in NFL years, and they've been watching games on TV in January for all of them.

The Vikes were a field goal away from the Super Bowl when they went 15-1, and then were in the NFC Championship game two years later. They were set to make a run at the NFC North title before M. Bennett went down. How this equates to the Randy-show Vikings in disarray is beyond me.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Pariah
Dalton wasn't a cancer in Denver. In fact, he was the opposite of a "cancer." He was a lockerroom leader.

Why did they only get a conditional 5th rounder then? I was reading in the post today that the majority held belief is that Dalton was a perennial underachiever not worthy of that fat bonus SHanahan gave him to play there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Rivercard
What are you talking about? So SD gets beat in the SB and now they aren't worthy to be considered a good team? True, SD has been rebuilding since the super bowl year but so have a lot of teams (including your beloved Randy-show Vikings). My point was to refute a rediculous post about the Chargers always being at home in January because they have "great chemistry". That's just silly and lame-o on many levels. Hell, SD has the biggest head case in the game right now with David Boston!

jeez man, relax. My Beloved Randy-show Vikings? Sorry for pointing out a couple facts about their record and NFC championship appearances since he got there. I wasn't saying San Diego wasn't a good team back then either, but using a team from eight years as an example just seemed a bit odd to me - I mean you can look back through the history of the NFL and find teams who had good guys on them that won games - I don't anyone here is saying that isn't the case - I mean NE won the Super Bowl with good guys as did the 1999 Rams - just thought it was weird that you singled out a team that in the grand scheme of things was a fluke to get to the Super Bowl and haven't really been good since - hence Kerouac used the term "always" (and 8 years to me is good enough to be saying "always" in reference to today's NFL). Don't take things too literal and relax man.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by schutd
Why did they only get a conditional 5th rounder then? I was reading in the post today that the majority held belief is that Dalton was a perennial underachiever not worthy of that fat bonus SHanahan gave him to play there.

Doesn't mean he wasn't a lockerroom guy. All that means is that he was an underachiever.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Pariah
Doesn't mean he wasn't a lockerroom guy. All that means is that he was an underachiever.

Fair enough. You werent necessarily defending HIM, just the notion that he might be a lockerroom cancer. My bad.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
jeez man, relax. My Beloved Randy-show Vikings? Sorry for pointing out a couple facts about their record and NFC championship appearances since he got there. I wasn't saying San Diego wasn't a good team back then either, but using a team from eight years as an example just seemed a bit odd to me - I mean you can look back through the history of the NFL and find teams who had good guys on them that won games - I don't anyone here is saying that isn't the case - I mean NE won the Super Bowl with good guys as did the 1999 Rams - just thought it was weird that you singled out a team that in the grand scheme of things was a fluke to get to the Super Bowl and haven't really been good since - hence Kerouac used the term "always" (and 8 years to me is good enough to be saying "always" in reference to today's NFL). Don't take things too literal and relax man.

Hey, I'm relaxed man. It's all good. I just think you guys do a lot of creative spinning of "facts" to support wierd theories. For the record, I didn't bring up San Diego - the original poster did - I was just responding to the original post.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Honestly, players want more money to come here because we're losers. It's the "losing surcharge" if you will. Duane Starks got it when he came out, as did Grutt, Kendall, and Freddie Jones.

There is a huge difference between Rice and Grutt/Kendall/FJ/DJ (jury out ond Starks). Regardless of what they feel personally (of that I have no knowledge) but once they got here they put everything into the Cardinals winning. That is what I expect. Frankly I see Emmit doing the same thing.

Conversley Rice put evrything into him winning (the $$ that is), if the Cardinals benifited from that, fine but it was not a priority for him, getting out of here was.

You are arguing that the Cardinals winning was a priority for Rice ? It would have been nice, but providing he could maintain a high profile, he was happy. A high profile meant a lucrative exit for him from AZ, this was his primary goal from day 1.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by nidan
You are arguing that the Cardinals winning was a priority for Rice ? It would have been nice, but providing he could maintain a high profile, he was happy. A high profile meant a lucrative exit for him from AZ, this was his primary goal from day 1.

What garners a player more money: great stats or being on a winning team? Ask Dexter Jackson. What gives a player more exposure: great stats or being on a winning team? Ask David Boston.

Simeon didn't start talking bad about the organization until management betrayed the players by dismantling the team after the '97-'98 season. If anything, he wanted to leave as a free agent because he wanted to win. He took a crappy contract initially with Tampa because he wanted to play for a winner. He didn't "get paid" until two years later, after he proved himself to be possible the single best defensive end in the National Football League, which is what is, and has been, his primary goal from day 1.

To say anything other than this is absolute revisionist history and blatant homerism.

 

[jmt]

Dalton was carted off the field during his first practice with the 'Skins. "Heat exhaustion" they say.