Dbacks vs Cubs: Desperate Times Call for Stupid Measures

[82CardsGrad]

And Parra thrown out at second trying to stretch a single into a double - ends inning... I swear he has to be the worst baserunner in all of baseball!

 

[Phrazbit]

This team is soooooo bad.

I think the Trumbo trade is going to cause me stomach irritation for years. He is one more out away from dropping below the Mendoza Line. Adam Eaton meanwhile is hitting .320 and has an .882 OPS and already .7 WAR on the year. Trumbo, despite his hot start, actually has a negative WAR!!! Because as bad as he is at getting on base, he is even worse in the field. And Eaton was not even the primary piece we gave up.



We needed and still need a legit leadoff man far more than Towers stupid imagined need of a power outfield bat... to be filled by a DH.

 

[az jam]

I hate to be such a pessimist but a full house cleaning will be needed. I just don't see this team suddenly turning it around especially with this pitching staff. It will soon be time to trade whatever there is of value for prospects. I would say that Goldy is the only untouchable.

 

[mjb21aztd]

wow was hoping one team might have a shot at a playoff season but doesn't look like it will be the dbacks eaither this year sigh. Gibson is still the dbacks manager right what happened? the dbacks were atleast decent last year

 

[Brian]

I hate to be such a pessimist but a full house cleaning will be needed. I just don't see this team suddenly turning it around especially with this pitching staff. It will soon be time to trade whatever there is of value for prospects. I would say that Goldy is the only untouchable.

The problem is: Do you want KT overseeing that re-build?

Fire the GM and then start dumping everybody.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The problem is: Do you want KT overseeing that re-build?

Fire the GM and then start dumping everybody.

I think that's where this is heading... though, I kinda believe that if KT is canned, Gibby is going with him.

 

[BC867]

We needed and still need a legit leadoff man

We have one! And despite his outstanding game when given the chance, including the game winning hit in extra innings, Campana was benched.
Against a lefty starter for one game, OK. But the next game, too? And the next?

Today, as the Mets swept us, he was given a rare start, but batted 8th. He is a sparkplug, he is batting .350, but Gibson's idea of how to use a sparkplug is to bat him before the pitcher.

Parra is hitting .250, but he gets the nod at leadoff over Campana. Pollack is hitting .230, but he gets the nod in CF over Campana.

BUT GIBSON WON'T GIVE HIM A CHANCE. WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?!?!? What does he have to lose? At best, we'd have the leadoff hitter you and I want. At worst, he'd go with the hot hand and see what happens.

Kirk Gibson either doesn't care, is downright stupid, is afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder or is bi-polar. Whether it is his attitude, his level of intelligence or his mental condition, he is ruining the offense just as much as Kevin Towers has ruined the pitching rotation.

And Gibson's bull$hit about separating his two big boppers in the batting order is just not producing results. Having them each come up, three batters apart, with runners on base is a pipe dream.

If they batted back-to-back, pitchers would have to pitch to one of them. But Gibson has put them both in a position to be pitched around. It's stupid!

We don't need stupid measures as this thread says. We've had them since the start of the season.

The problems on offense fall mostly on Gibson, not Towers.

 

[Bert]

We have one! And despite his outstanding game when given the chance, including the game winning hit in extra innings, Campana was benched.
Against a lefty starter for one game, OK. But the next game, too? And the next?

Today, as the Mets swept us, he was given a rare start, but batted 8th. He is a sparkplug, he is batting .350, but Gibson's idea of how to use a sparkplug is to bat him before the pitcher.

Parra is hitting .250, but he gets the nod at leadoff over Campana. Pollack is hitting .230, but he gets the nod in CF over Campana.

BUT GIBSON WON'T GIVE HIM A CHANCE. WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?!?!? What does he have to lose? At best, we'd have the leadoff hitter you and I want. At worst, he'd go with the hot hand and see what happens.

Kirk Gibson either doesn't care, is downright stupid, is afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder or is bi-polar. Whether it is his attitude, his level of intelligence or his mental condition, he is ruining the offense just as much as Kevin Towers has ruined the pitching rotation.

And Gibson's bull$hit about separating his two big boppers in the batting order is just not producing results. Having them each come up, three batters apart, with runners on base is a pipe dream.

If they batted back-to-back, pitchers would have to pitch to one of them. But Gibson has put them both in a position to be pitched around. It's stupid!

We don't need stupid measures as this thread says. We've had them since the start of the season.

The problems on offense fall mostly on Gibson, not Towers.

Exactly, the whole point of bringing in Trumbo was to bat him after Goldy so people cant pitch around Goldy. It's a fairly simple concept

I cant find the tweet but someone in the new york media mentioned it during this series. "Why Goldschmidt and Trumbo are not back to back in this lineup is a mystery."

Gibson and managers in general have gotten way too scientific with their strategies anymore. Just put the lineup out there and leave it alone for a while, it's a long season. How can any team gain any kind of momentum when the starting lineup and batting order are in constant flux?

 

[SunCityCarl]

Wow a top of the ninth with 2 errors from battery mates Reed & Montero! Bottom of the 9th a couple long balls courtesy of "Papa Grande" & nothing to show for it. Absolutely embarrassing baseball, Parra needs to be on a leash while running the bases. Trumbo becomes the new Mark Reynolds. You can hear the surrender in Greg Schulte's delivery.

 

[Lefty]

What is scary is Towers will be here for the draft in June.

 

[Lefty]

Eaton has a 420 OBP while Pollock has a 288 OBP and Parra a 295 OBP.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sorry BC but I dont buy Campana as a viable everyday player. He is a ONE tool player, he can run. He can't hit for average (his current average after 18 at bats is not enough to outweigh his bad career as a hitter), he has no power, he can't throw or field... but he can run. And his fielding is a real issue, he is bad out there. He does not read the ball well off the bat.

Adam Eaton is immeasurably better than Campana, and also much better than Pollock... and he is also better than Trumbo at everything but hitting the occasional home run.

Eaton is also younger than all of the mentioned players.

 

[BC867]

Sorry BC but I dont buy Campana as a viable everyday player. He is a ONE tool player, he can run. He can't hit for average (his current average after 18 at bats is not enough to outweigh his bad career as a hitter), he has no power, he can't throw or field... but he can run. And his fielding is a real issue, he is bad out there. He does not read the ball well off the bat.

Adam Eaton is immeasurably better than Campana, and also much better than Pollock... and he is also better than Trumbo at everything but hitting the occasional home run.

Eaton is also younger than all of the mentioned players.

You're right about Eaton, but he's not ours anymore. We do have Campana who, despite your doubts, has the potential to ignite the team from the top of the batting order.

We are the worst team in baseball. What could we possibly lose by giving him a try? Let's find out. We can't decline to any lower than last place. Especially when you compare his leadoff performance to Pollock or most of Parra's.

The problem is that Gibson won't give anything a chance to gel, except for Goldy batting 3rd. He wouldn't dare mess with that. Well, there are seven other position player spots in the batting order.

P.S.: I am not, nor have I ever been, or will ever be, a Yankee fan.

But imagine if Miller Huggins in 1927 decided to drop Lou Gehrig to 6th in the batting order so two get-on-base guys could hit between him and Ruth. Or if he moved his 7 or 8 hitters into and out of the leadoff spot. And left a prototype leadoff on the bench to do it. A #7 or #8 hitter moving in and out of leadoff and his second best power hitter batting 6th. The fans in the Bronx would have had his head.

 

[Brian]

We have one! And despite his outstanding game when given the chance, including the game winning hit in extra innings, Campana was benched.
Against a lefty starter for one game, OK. But the next game, too? And the next?

Today, as the Mets swept us, he was given a rare start, but batted 8th. He is a sparkplug, he is batting .350, but Gibson's idea of how to use a sparkplug is to bat him before the pitcher.

Parra is hitting .250, but he gets the nod at leadoff over Campana. Pollack is hitting .230, but he gets the nod in CF over Campana.

BUT GIBSON WON'T GIVE HIM A CHANCE. WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?!?!? What does he have to lose? At best, we'd have the leadoff hitter you and I want. At worst, he'd go with the hot hand and see what happens.

Kirk Gibson either doesn't care, is downright stupid, is afflicted with Attention Deficit Disorder or is bi-polar. Whether it is his attitude, his level of intelligence or his mental condition, he is ruining the offense just as much as Kevin Towers has ruined the pitching rotation.

And Gibson's bull$hit about separating his two big boppers in the batting order is just not producing results. Having them each come up, three batters apart, with runners on base is a pipe dream.

If they batted back-to-back, pitchers would have to pitch to one of them. But Gibson has put them both in a position to be pitched around. It's stupid!

We don't need stupid measures as this thread says. We've had them since the start of the season.

The problems on offense fall mostly on Gibson, not Towers.

You ready for your head to pop?

Guess who's getting sent down here in a couple of days when Cody Ross comes back?

Yep. You guessed it.

 

[BC867]

You ready for your head to pop?

Guess who's getting sent down here in a couple of days when Cody Ross comes back?

Yep. You guessed it.

Well, at least his lack of use won't be staring us in the face.

I expect that Ross in RF and Parra in CF will become prevalent. Another face in the mix for cleanup-hitter-of-the-night. Montero, Prado, Ross, Hill. The Pretenders.

If I ever refer to the 4th spot in the batting order as anything but the 4th spot in the batting order for the rest of the season, slap me.

With one exception, of course. The few times that Eric Chavez covers it. Then it's the cleanup spot.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Lefty]

Trumbo is batting 197 witn an OBP of 250. Many of us saw this coming. It's Mark Reynolds all over.

 

[BC867]

Trumbo is batting 197 witn an OBP of 250. Many of us saw this coming. It's Mark Reynolds all over.

Do you think Gibson's decision to not bat him in the heart of the batting order has anything to do with it? A Manager is there to get the most out of his players, both physically and their psyche. "Hey, we brought you here to be our big bopper, but you're not going to be anywhere near Goldy."

Besides, it is not just Trumbo, the whole team is in a malaise.

 

[FArting]

A brawl would help against the Doyers. It would bring team unity.

 

[JS22]

The problem is: Do you want KT overseeing that re-build?

Now way in hell.

Should have just kept Dipoto. Yeah, I know. He's made some less-than-awesome moves with the Angels. But those have felt more like "owner" type moves.

 

[Phrazbit]

Do you think Gibson's decision to not bat him in the heart of the batting order has anything to do with it? A Manager is there to get the most out of his players, both physically and their psyche. "Hey, we brought you here to be our big bopper, but you're not going to be anywhere near Goldy."

Besides, it is not just Trumbo, the whole team is in a malaise.

No. This is who Trumbo is, his average will probably fulxuate between .200 and .240, the hot start was a fluke. He it .230 last year in a much more potent batting order.

We traded a legit leadoff man and a potential stud starter for a DH who is basically a bad hitter but when he does hit it can hit it far.

 

[82CardsGrad]

No. This is who Trumbo is, his average will probably fulxuate between .200 and .240, the hot start was a fluke. He it .230 last year in a much more potent batting order.

Agreed...

We traded a legit leadoff man and a potential stud starter for a DH who is basically a bad hitter but when he does hit it can hit it far.

Eaton was so non-legit and though he is off to a solid start, let's see where he's at come August...
Same for Skaggs...

 

[Phrazbit]

Now way in hell.

Should have just kept Dipoto. Yeah, I know. He's made some less-than-awesome moves with the Angels. But those have felt more like "owner" type moves.

Yeah, those moves looked like a team with too much payroll at their disposal. And even so, I'd rather have a GM who looks at an increase of 40 million in payroll per season and decides to blow it on guys who have previously been MVPs. Rather than our current GM who gets a massive increase in payroll and blows it on multiple #5 starters and 8 mil a year contracts to 4th outfielders.

 

[Phrazbit]

Agreed...



Eaton was so non-legit and though he is off to a solid start, let's see where he's at come August...
Same for Skaggs...

Eaton flat out killed it at every level through the minors. He looked pretty damn good his first stint up with us. He obviously has a very good eye at the dish, can work counts (he did this even when he was stinking) and have draw walks. Eaton last year was pressing when he came up and it was obvious, he came up right when the team was fading and wanted to play hero, he pressed too much and struggled. This is baseball, young guys are going to have a few bumps in the road, you cant just ship them off and call them a bust after they have a couple bad months.

And Skaggs... he may or may not develop into an ace, but I think even his worst case scenario still has him significantly better than the rubbish in our current rotation.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Eaton flat out killed it at every level through the minors. He looked pretty damn good his first stint up with us. He obviously has a very good eye at the dish, can work counts (he did this even when he was stinking) and have draw walks. Eaton last year was pressing when he came up and it was obvious, he came up right when the team was fading and wanted to play hero, he pressed too much and struggled. This is baseball, young guys are going to have a few bumps in the road, you cant just ship them off and call them a bust after they have a couple bad months.

And Skaggs... he may or may not develop into an ace, but I think even his worst case scenario still has him significantly better than the rubbish in our current rotation.

AND THE REWARD WAS MARK REYNOLDS!!! Even if neither ends up being anything special, Trumbo's production is barely better than a replacement level player.

Unconscionable.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Eaton flat out killed it at every level through the minors. He looked pretty damn good his first stint up with us. He obviously has a very good eye at the dish, can work counts (he did this even when he was stinking) and have draw walks. Eaton last year was pressing when he came up and it was obvious, he came up right when the team was fading and wanted to play hero, he pressed too much and struggled. This is baseball, young guys are going to have a few bumps in the road, you cant just ship them off and call them a bust after they have a couple bad months.

I still want to see where he's at later in the season as I have my doubts about him. Nonetheless, he does represent an upgrade over anything we toss out there as a leadoff man...

And Skaggs... he may or may not develop into an ace, but I think even his worst case scenario still has him significantly better than the rubbish in our current rotation.

Skaggs will be 23 this summer, so he's still so young... I have my doubts about him ever being an "ace", but again, aside from Corbin and Miley, he is a massive upgrade over anything else we trot out to the mound...

In the end, I can understand the move KT made here. It's clear the early evidence is that he lost - bigtime - in this trade... However, I'm sure he was convinced that Parra/Pollack/Campana would be as good, if not better leadoff options than Eaton. And that his moves to acquire Cahill & McCarthy (don't laugh) would pay off. Along with Corbin and Miley and with Bradley available later in the year, I can see his logic and making a run at a power hitting Trumbo...
In the world of GM's, if you aren't losing deals then you aren't doing your job - because you aren't making deals...
The problem with KT is that it's nearly impossible to identify a deal he's done where he's come out on top. Even the Bauer deal is starting to look unvfavorable as Bauer had a great outing yesterday in AAA. That deal still requires much more time, and you have to factor in Bauer's brain malfunctions... But the deck is seriously stacked against KT. Hard to see him surviving much longer.