Deadspin: The Suns are melting down

[Hoop Head]

The problem is management. The problem is Sarver won't hire a good GM and stay out of the way, he's a micro manager. Dave Burns made a comment yesterday that if Sarver announced that he was hiring David Griffin effective immediately and gave him full autonomy to run this team and stayed out of his way that Suns fans would be ecstatic. That would be a simple fix but he won't do it and despite all the respect and how much players like James Jones he is a lame duck GM. Did his relationship help land James? No, because players know Sarver is a meddling pest and this organization is the epitome of playing in hell.

Did the Suns even try to land Lebron last summer? Did any team but the Lakers meet with him? I wouldn't say James Jones not bringing Lebron to Phoenix is something that should be a negative on his resume. Lebron was going to LA and that was talked about for over a year. No one thought he'd leave his title chances in Cleveland but he did and here we are. James Jones was brought in to fix McD's mess. McD alienated players too much and that was a serious issue hurting our image. He's helped in that regard some but not a lot. He did get Crawford here at the last minute, which I'll take as a positive. At the time I was against it but it's worked out well.

Edit: Short of bringing in Isiah Thomas to be the GM though Sarver could step aside in favor of anyone else making the decisions and that would be greeted enthusiastically by fans. Griffin was Lebron's assistant GM and face for the Cavs to pin moves when it was really Lebron and Rich Paul calling the shots in Cleveland.

 

[1tinsoldier]

One, there's a difference between a foreign player and a foreign coach. Two, it hasn't been completely smooth sailing with his teammates. There's been multiple reports of teammates freezing him out at times, and there was that awkward play where Deandre Jordan pushed him out of the way to steal a rebound. I do think he is forcing his teammates to respect him with his strong play.

yes, Doncic had some issues with teammates overseas and is probably a hard head with an ego but he earned their respect on the court. I've never heard of any resentment of Dirk because he was a foreigner either.

it's not absurd to think some players might have less respect for a foreign coach.
it's just absurd to think our players don't respect this coach because of his nationality
when there is an abundance of substantial issues of elephant size proportions "in the room"

 

[95pro]

I agree. Griffin has not proven himself capable in any way IMO.

Was griffin part of the suns org before sarver? Isn’t he born and raised in AZ too like sarver.

I can see where they would clash. He’s from the old school suns and sarver is here to suck the suns dry.

 

[Proximo]

I agree. Griffin has not proven himself capable in any way IMO.

Apparently he has proven himself in one way - the media seems to love the guy for some reason, so I guess he is good at that.

 

[95pro]

Apparently he has proven himself in one way - the media seems to love the guy for some reason, so I guess he is good at that.

They do. He has a sound mind and judgement when he brought on nba radio to give his thoughts about certain subjects league wide.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Apparently he has proven himself in one way - the media seems to love the guy for some reason, so I guess he is good at that.

He speaks well and seems to be a fairly bright and nice guy. But while I appreciate those qualities, they don't necessarily spell "good GM" to me. He might do a great job here or wherever he lands next but AFAIC the jury is very much out on him.

 

[Superbone]

The suns are a joke.

I'm not laughing.

 

[1Sun]

Dan Bickley telling it like it is:

http://arizonasports.com/story/1762111/

 

[BC867]

Dan Bickley telling it like it is:

http://arizonasports.com/story/1762111/

I basically wrote the same thing to Adam Silver, knowing that if it even reached him, I would not get a response. Which I did get from Jerry.

Here's hoping that a public figure and sportswriter like Dan Bickley can get through to the NBA to represent all of us.

I've been waiting for it! We've been waiting for it! Robert Sarver is as much an embarrassment to his league as Donald Sterling and Bill Bidwill.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've been waiting for it! We've been waiting for it! Robert Sarver is as much an embarrassment to his league as Donald Sterling and Bill Bidwill.

IMO that is just so wrong. From what I've heard, Bill is a nice guy who owned a team on a tight budget. Sterling is as close to evil as they come. I don't know what Sarver is, I figure somewhere in between the two but you should read about Sterling's history and you'll see a huge difference in the caliber of men you're talking about. Yes, we are a disappointment and a laughing stock to the league. But the Clippers held those titles for longer than Sarver has been an owner.

 

[BC867]

IMO that is just so wrong. From what I've heard, Bill is a nice guy who owned a team on a tight budget. Sterling is as close to evil as they come. I don't know what Sarver is, I figure somewhere in between the two but you should read about Sterling's history and you'll see a huge difference in the caliber of men you're talking about. Yes, we are a disappointment and a laughing stock to the league. But the Clippers held those titles for longer than Sarver has been an owner.

My opinion in lumping Bidwill with Sterling isn't about the cause. It is about the results. Teams that failed their community.

Just as Sarver is failing ours. And all Suns fans.

 

[AzStevenCal]

My opinion in lumping Bidwill with Sterling isn't about the cause. It is about the results. Teams that failed their community.

Just as Sarver is failing ours. And all Suns fans.

If he does it for another decade plus, I'd agree. Anyway, he's a disappointment but he's no Sterling and we are not (yet) the Clippers of the 80's and 90's.

 

[BC867]

If he does it for another decade plus, I'd agree. Anyway, he's a disappointment but he's no Sterling and we are not (yet) the Clippers of the 80's and 90's.

As I've posted in other situations, better-than-bad is not the same as good.

I know you need to crawl before you can walk, but the Suns have been crawling for too long. And regressing along the way, which is not a reassuring sign.

And, on a personal note, I don't have another decade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As I've posted in other situations, better-than-bad is not the same as good.

I know you need to crawl before you can walk, but the Suns have been crawling for too long. And regressing along the way, which is not a reassuring sign.

And, on a personal note, I don't have another decade.

You won't hear me excuse our team with a comment like "at least we're not the Clippers". I only make this kind of comment when someone equates us to them. I take no pride in where we are right now and knowing the Clippers were worse and for much longer doesn't make me feel the slightest bit better about where we are. But where we are right now is primarily the result of a decision that was made almost 3 years ago, the decision to completely tank. Once that decision was implemented, we were destined to be miserable little fans. Welcome to our destiny, hope you enjoy the show.

 

[overseascardfan]

Did the Suns even try to land Lebron last summer? Did any team but the Lakers meet with him? I wouldn't say James Jones not bringing Lebron to Phoenix is something that should be a negative on his resume. Lebron was going to LA and that was talked about for over a year. No one thought he'd leave his title chances in Cleveland but he did and here we are. James Jones was brought in to fix McD's mess. McD alienated players too much and that was a serious issue hurting our image. He's helped in that regard some but not a lot. He did get Crawford here at the last minute, which I'll take as a positive. At the time I was against it but it's worked out well.

Edit: Short of bringing in Isiah Thomas to be the GM though Sarver could step aside in favor of anyone else making the decisions and that would be greeted enthusiastically by fans. Griffin was Lebron's assistant GM and face for the Cavs to pin moves when it was really Lebron and Rich Paul calling the shots in Cleveland.

My point is that LeBron is very close with Jones, so all the speculation that Jones would be a good GM who could attract players to PHX is a bunch of bull. The guy had no front office experience and went straight from retiring as a player into the Sun's front office. David Griffin may not be a great GM but Burn's point was all Sarver would have to do is hire a good GM that knows what the hell he is doing and stay out of his way but that won't happen.

 

[AzStevenCal]

My point is that LeBron is very close with Jones, so all the speculation that Jones would be a good GM who could attract players to PHX is a bunch of bull. The guy had no front office experience and went straight from retiring as a player into the Sun's front office. David Griffin may not be a great GM but Burn's point was all Sarver would have to do is hire a good GM that knows what the hell he is doing and stay out of his way but that won't happen.

That wasn't clear from your post. And I would add, that point has been made hundreds of times here so you won't likely get any argument. But I don't believe that even a great GM could do much to fix our current problems in the short run. Nothing but time, coaching and experience is going to turn our young guys into real NBA players. We could package them with future picks and bring in ready to play names from around the league but that would mean mediocrity and the hell of the past few years would be all for naught.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IMO that is just so wrong. From what I've heard, Bill is a nice guy who owned a team on a tight budget. Sterling is as close to evil as they come. I don't know what Sarver is, I figure somewhere in between the two but you should read about Sterling's history and you'll see a huge difference in the caliber of men you're talking about. Yes, we are a disappointment and a laughing stock to the league. But the Clippers held those titles for longer than Sarver has been an owner.

Agree 100%

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My opinion in lumping Bidwill with Sterling isn't about the cause. It is about the results. Teams that failed their community.

Just as Sarver is failing ours. And all Suns fans.

The league doesn’t take over teams because of ineptitude. No league does.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

If only the league had relegation...

 

[Mainstreet]

Elephant in the room is the fact that the Suns roster sucks. There is no coach who could come in and turn this thing around overnight. I just don't understand how people can blame the coach. Look at the roster... really look at it.

This seems right.

Blaming Igor for the Suns bad play is a cop out. It's more likely the Suns do not have enough talent. Could it be Booker is not an elite player... at least not yet and Ayton is a few years away from becoming a dominant center.

Jackson may not be the player we want him to be and Bridges is still an unproven rookie. I think highly of Warren but he is basically a good scorer on a bad team. Top off all this and the Suns do not even have a competent point guard or a starting caliber power forward.

It's no wonder the Suns are losing.

 

[1Sun]

This seems right.

Blaming Igor for the Suns bad play is a cop out. It's more likely the Suns do not have enough talent. Could it be Booker is not an elite player... at least not yet and Ayton is a few years away from becoming a dominant center.

Jackson may not be the player we want him to be and Bridges is still an unproven rookie. I think highly of Warren but he is basically a good scorer on a bad team. Top off all this and the Suns do not even have a competent point guard or a starting caliber power forward.

It's no wonder the Suns are losing.

Except that with the exception of Warren, Crawford and Holmes, each and every player on the Suns has regressed horribly under Igor.

 

[taz02]

The team is certainly poorly constructed but IMO there is enough talent not to be one of the worst teams in NBA history. A proven experienced coach who knows how to use a talented center would certainly help.

Every team, or at least most teams are weak in at least one position. The problem that I see, Igor's offense is reliant on a position that happens to be our greatest weakness PG, and his offense fails to capitalize on our strength, Ayton. Other than a carousel of line up changes that seemed obvious to us fans long before they were actually made, there hasn't been any adjustments to the scheme.

Igor is a rookie head coach who will probably improve with time but time is something the suns don't have. At this point it seems as if he has lost the team and if he is unwilling to coach effort or rather inspire players to put forth maximum effort it seems unlikely he is the man to fix this mess.

Lets, say we get a good PG, are we going to lose every game he doesn't play in? What if he gets injured?

 

[SirStefan32]

The team is certainly poorly constructed but IMO there is enough talent not to be one of the worst teams in NBA history. A proven experienced coach who knows how to use a talented center would certainly help.

Every team, or at least most teams are weak in at least one position. The problem that I see, Igor's offense is reliant on a position that happens to be our greatest weakness PG, and his offense fails to capitalize on our strength, Ayton. Other than a carousel of line up changes that seemed obvious to us fans long before they were actually made, there hasn't been any adjustments to the scheme.

Igor is a rookie head coach who will probably improve with time but time is something the suns don't have. At this point it seems as if he has lost the team and if he is unwilling to coach effort or rather inspire players to put forth maximum effort it seems unlikely he is the man to fix this mess.

Lets, say we get a good PG, are we going to lose every game he doesn't play in? What if he gets injured?

Being weak at a position is different from not having NBA-level talent. Suns do not have a NBA PG or PF.

The bigger issue, however, is that the Suns lack NBA talent in general. Outside of Booker and Warren, they have two good rookies in Ayton and Bridges. They are good rookies, but they are still rookies. Then they have a second-year player who is wild and unpredictable in Jackson, Then there is a pretty good young backup Center in Holmes, and half-retired Ariza and Crawford. That's literally all the NBA-level talent they have- a bunch of youngsters and a couple of old men. Perhaps Daniels can be characterized as an NBA player too, one-dimensional as he is.

Melton and Okobo are rookies drafted in the second round. Anderson is not a basketball player anymore, Bender is, well, as Igor put it, a G-League player.

There just isn't enough talent on this team, regardless of the position. I think they drafted very well in 2018, and it will pay off. Ayton will be one of the better Centers in the league, Bridges is going to be a premier 3 and D player, and Okobo will, at a minimum, be a solid backup point guard. Jackson will probably be a rotation player as well. But right now, they are not good enough to compete with real NBA players and teams. Yes, Phoenix needs to add a point guard, they need to have some presence at PF, but they also need more NBA players.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Ayton, Okobo, Bridges, Melton, Ariza, Anderson, Crawford, Holmes are all new to the team. That's seven new players. Nobody remains from the last year's rotation outside of Booker, Warren, Jackson (who barely played with the other two), and the non-rotation players Bender and Daniels.

If they get a point guard, they will be better, but they will still lack NBA-level talent. If the said PG doesn't play, miss games, gets hurt, yeah they are going to lose. Hell, they will probably lose a lot even if they get a good point guard. This team is a mess right now. Seven new players, including 3-4 rookies in the rotation and two half-retired new vets.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton was asked about the Booker confrontation and says "That’s just two guys that want to win to be honest.” More in the video expanding on that sentiment.

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[taz02]

Being weak at a position is different from not having NBA-level talent. Suns do not have a NBA PG or PF.

The bigger issue, however, is that the Suns lack NBA talent in general. Outside of Booker and Warren, they have two good rookies in Ayton and Bridges. They are good rookies, but they are still rookies. Then they have a second-year player who is wild and unpredictable in Jackson, Then there is a pretty good young backup Center in Holmes, and half-retired Ariza and Crawford. That's literally all the NBA-level talent they have- a bunch of youngsters and a couple of old men. Perhaps Daniels can be characterized as an NBA player too, one-dimensional as he is.

Melton and Okobo are rookies drafted in the second round. Anderson is not a basketball player anymore, Bender is, well, as Igor put it, a G-League player.

There just isn't enough talent on this team, regardless of the position. I think they drafted very well in 2018, and it will pay off. Ayton will be one of the better Centers in the league, Bridges is going to be a premier 3 and D player, and Okobo will, at a minimum, be a solid backup point guard. Jackson will probably be a rotation player as well. But right now, they are not good enough to compete with real NBA players and teams. Yes, Phoenix needs to add a point guard, they need to have some presence at PF, but they also need more NBA players.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Ayton, Okobo, Bridges, Melton, Ariza, Anderson, Crawford, Holmes are all new to the team. That's seven new players. Nobody remains from the last year's rotation outside of Booker, Warren, Jackson (who barely played with the other two), and the non-rotation players Bender and Daniels.

If they get a point guard, they will be better, but they will still lack NBA-level talent. If the said PG doesn't play, miss games, gets hurt, yeah they are going to lose. Hell, they will probably lose a lot even if they get a good point guard. This team is a mess right now. Seven new players, including 3-4 rookies in the rotation and two half-retired new vets.

Do you think this years roster is better than last years? They were 9 and 15 by this point.