Deandre Ayton discussion

[ASUCHRIS]

Ayton is already better than peak Amare.

With respect, what do you know about Amare Stoudemire?

 

[82CardsGrad]

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Wow! We'll likely never know how it happened, but I am thoroughly amazed at how Ayton so suddenly became all-star quality. He was good during the regular season, but of course, as we all know, he would have multi-game stretches (not to mention his disappearing acts within games), where he was virtually non-existent.
To go from that to what we now see in a mere matter of days/weeks????? How the hell does that happen? Was it CP3? Monty? Mark Bryant? I mean, Ayton is arguably the playoff MVP for the Suns thus far and you might even be able to make a case for him being the playoff MVP league-wide!
Truly amazing...

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

The thing people seldom talk about with Ayton is his shooting percentage. Ayton outplayed Jokic last night. 69% vs 45%. 12 shots for Ayton vs 23 for Jokic. That means more shots for teammates. It’s as good as an assist.

Jokic had 2 oreb and 4 turnovers to Ayton’s 3 oreb and 1 turnover. Four extra possessions right there.

 

[dscher]

the craziest thing was that he became a solid shooter by year 3. At 22 years old he was becoming the most dominant offensive big man in the game. Freaking microfracture!

Yep. Just as his overall game was ready to explode....that ish happened. Kick to the nards as typical Suns fan are accustomed to.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

With respect, what do you know about Amare Stoudemire?

That he couldn’t defend a traffic cone and was elite on offense. Typical 82 game player that gets exposed by schemes on defense in the playoffs. He was excellent on offense in the playoffs but that ain’t gonna cut it against Timmy and Dirk.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Amare on a regular team would not be guarding Jokic unless they were playing him out of position. The only reason Amare ever covered centers is because they were going small. Something that was a detriment to Amare playing defense along with the team not caring back then about defense.

However you want to slice it, he was a big net negative on defense. Awful defenses NEVER win rings.

 

[dscher]

With respect, what do you know about Amare Stoudemire?

Hey, YouTube highlights are a thing nowadays... To be fair...if DA's energy light bulb ever stays fully lit while he's on the court... I can see this very soon. Ayton isnt quite there with the mental aspects of the game imo. Time and passion will get him there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

almost? Not missing a shot so Paul can pass it to someone else?

It degrades the art and value of an assist to just assume merely not taking a shot is the equivalent of effectovelysetting someone else up to score.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I have been watching full games on YouTube of pre- and post-microfracture surgery Amare in the playoffs. He was awful on defense in both iterations. Not so much 1v1, but as a help defender.

 

[Covert Rain]

However you want to slice it, he was a big net negative on defense. Awful defenses NEVER win rings.

What do you mean "however" I want to slice it? Amare did what he was told and played in the system in front of him. He often played out of position and played in a system that de-emphasized defense for running. He played in a system that preached the best defense is offense. That's a fact. No slicing necessary. It wasn't a secret under Pringles.

Amare wasn't a great defender by any stretch. Nobody is saying different but he was also a product of the coach/system he was drafted under. Nash and the entire team were dismal for long stretches when it came to defense. That is not a secret either.

Could Amare have been elite? Likely not but I have zero doubts under the right coach he definitely could have been taught better and elevated that part of his game. He would have benefited from a more traditional lineup that didn't seem him playing out of position so often. IMO Pringles likely ruined any chance of Amare developing that part of his game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have been watching full games on YouTube of pre- and post-microfracture surgery Amare in the playoffs. He was awful on defense in both iterations. Not so much 1v1, but as a help defender.

You’re arguing against the wind. No one here pretends for even a second that Amare was a good defensive player.

 

[Hoop Head]

Amare could have been a decent defender with proper coaching. He had all the tools but by the time he had a coach to.teach him, the tools were all rusted over and broken so no one bothered.

He continued playing D'Antoni defense throughout his career, which was give your team more offense than your opponent does. He did that against the NBA elite regularly.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

You’re arguing against the wind. No one here pretends for even a second that Amare was a good defensive player.

You’re missing my point (which is arguable, I guess): Ayton > Amare.

Really bad defense is much harder to compensate for in a playoff series than an inability to carry high usage efficiently.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Lots of fun counterfactuals regarding whether Amare coulda shoulda woulda been a contender on defense. He wasn’t.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You’re missing my point (which is arguable, I guess): Ayton > Amare.

Yeah, your point is based on complete ignorance. Ayton has started the playoffs great - he has a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Amare.

You never watched peak Amare, so your youtube based opinions lack credibility.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You’re missing my point (which is arguable, I guess): Ayton > Amare.

Really bad defense is much harder to compensate for in a playoff series than an inability to carry high usage efficiently.

I can’t make a definitive statement about Ayton over Amare in the playoffs at this point. But so far, the sample we’re getting is making a pretty damn good argument because he plays both sides of the court.

 

[dscher]

I can’t make a definitive statement about Ayton over Amare in the playoffs at this point. But so far, the sample we’re getting is making a pretty damn good argument because he plays both sides of the court.

Yeah. Just like anything. Different styles. Different players. So it's not so much Ayton vs Amar'e because there is so much involved in both their era and coaching that it's pretty silly to argue over. But, I'll always have my Amar'e memories from those playoff runs...just like I'm sure whyalways has more recent fond memories of Ayton.

 

[95pro]

Tough to state this as well...this suns team is better. Cp3 takes care of the ball better. than Nash. Booker is better than any other guard other than nash. We have more than one defending forward this time around, amare had Marion.

You can't really say at this point that Ayton is better than Amare in the playoffs.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Yeah, your point is based on complete ignorance. Ayton has started the playoffs great - he has a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Amare.

You never watched peak Amare, so your youtube based opinions lack credibility.

What? I was at most of those playoff games and was a season ticket holder from 2004-2008.

YouTube literally has full games of the playoffs, I was rewatching to confirm my memory and the stats. Confirmed.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

I can’t make a definitive statement about Ayton over Amare in the playoffs at this point. But so far, the sample we’re getting is making a pretty damn good argument because he plays both sides of the court.

Would have loved to see Ayton vs. peak Duncan. Jokic is a much better offensive player than Duncan fwiw.

 

[95pro]

What? I was at most of those playoff games and was a season ticket holder from 2004-2008.

YouTube literally has full games of the playoffs, I was rewatching to confirm my memory and the stats. Confirmed.

You were 4-8 years old back then.

 

[Chaplin]

You were 4-8 years old back then.

Unless he's lying about his age. Which of course speaks volumes about his credibility.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

You were 4-8 years old back then.

I’m 35

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Unless he's lying about his age. Which of course speaks volumes about his credibility.

lying? Lol I didn’t put my SS# here either

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

SPEAKS VOLUMES

Lmao