Deandre Ayton discussion

[JCSunsfan]

Just not buying that excuse when guys like Jokic, Embiid, Anthony Davis and Gobert are the starting centers and either best player or second best player on the four best teams in the league right now. All of them range from 5.8-11 FT per game, even Gobert who has zero offensive game.

Ayton averages 2.8 FTs per game. I’ve never seen someone as big and athletic as him get blocked at the rim as much as he does.

Ok. How about this one. Jokic is a point center so he gets more FTs because the ball is in his hands so much more. And Embiid, that dude throws his body all over the place. Yep he gets more FTs but he is always injured too. Listen, Ayton needs to do better with his aggressiveness around the hoop. He defers too much to the outside shooters and will pass out to them often. Hard to blame him though when he is surrounded by so many good shooters. An open three is a better shot than a contested two for this team.

I will take the D and rebounding for now. Good win.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok. How about this one. Jokic is a point center so he gets more FTs because the ball is in his hands so much more. And Embiid, that dude throws his body all over the place. Yep he gets more FTs but he is always injured too. Listen, Ayton needs to do better with his aggressiveness around the hoop. He defers too much to the outside shooters and will pass out to them often. Hard to blame him though when he is surrounded by so many good shooters. An open three is a better shot than a contested two for this team.

I will take the D and rebounding for now. Good win.

you might be satisified with D and rebounding, but we should EXPECT that from him in his third year. It's really not asking for the moon to expect him to be a bigger part of the offense, especially when he's already shown that ability in his first two years.

also, he's not surrounded by that many good shooters. We are an average at best 3 point shooting team. The reason we hit the skids so bad was because we played like we were a great three point shooting team and we just aren't. And when you're as big, strong and athletic as Ayton, those shots at the rim are only contested because he goes up so damn soft. That needs to stop if this team is going to do some damage this season, which it CAN if the light ever goes on for him.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Anthony Davis and Gobert have put up some terrible offensive games but always get the rebounds. This is what the Suns need and DA will be better in 4 years. But the Suns will have to pay the space cadet until he gets their.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The nba is a perimeter game now.

THIS is what I was saying PRE-DRAFT!

But seriously...... that excuse is a joke. Ayton's inconsistency is a joke. Having a player that tries consistently shouldn't be something we have to worry about. What a tissue soft teammate. And a tissue soft post player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

But it wasn’t just instincts for Rodman. He said he studied it. He knew where the rebound was going from where it hit the rim. He studied it. I’ll bet most casual fans are shocked to hear just how cerebral Rodman was. Nuts, but cerebral.

I agree with this. Rodman rebounded by knowing where the ball would go. He didn't box out much, just went to the ball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He just doesn’t help his image with these types of comments:


"I remembered watching him on TV -- when it was 'Lob City' -- and I never imagined being out there with him," Ayton said. "He's made centers in this league All-Stars, and led to the biggest contracts.

"You embrace that."

I can’t recall many greats constantly talking about contracts beginning before they’ve even played a game. And it resurfaced with him all the time.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...deandre-ayton-road-map-upper-tier-nba-centers

 

[Hoop Head]

He just doesn’t help his image with these types of comments:


"I remembered watching him on TV -- when it was 'Lob City' -- and I never imagined being out there with him," Ayton said. "He's made centers in this league All-Stars, and led to the biggest contracts.

"You embrace that."

I can’t recall many greats constantly talking about contracts beginning before they’ve even played a game. And it resurfaced with him all the time.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...deandre-ayton-road-map-upper-tier-nba-centers

Its one thing to mention he makes his teammates better and gets them paid but the way Ayton says it, specifically mentioning bigs who got the largest contracts shows where his mind is.

I would imagine James Jones and Sarver have taken note of his comments and have likely heard more being behind the scenes with him. I can't imagine Sarver is eager to cut him that sort of check and I would imagine Jones doesn't want to his first max deal as a GM to be a questionable one where the player has a lot of questions surrounding his motivation. Keep Ayton for his contract year and sell high at the end. He'll be restricted so he'll have a lot of value.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He just doesn’t help his image with these types of comments:


"I remembered watching him on TV -- when it was 'Lob City' -- and I never imagined being out there with him," Ayton said. "He's made centers in this league All-Stars, and led to the biggest contracts.

"You embrace that."

I can’t recall many greats constantly talking about contracts beginning before they’ve even played a game. And it resurfaced with him all the time.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...deandre-ayton-road-map-upper-tier-nba-centers

it’s just off putting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton made it clear a few years ago, since his early/mid teen years his goal has been to provide for his family. He's not evil, he's not even selfish, it's just the simple truth, he's playing basketball to secure his family for generations to come. It doesn't mean he's going to get his max deal and then mail it in, but unfortunately, it doesn't mean he isn't.

I don't know what to do about him. I like him, I think he's a sincerely nice kid and even when he's playing soft his presence on the court forces the opposition to account for him on both ends. He wants to be great but I don't know if he'll ever want it enough to fully commit to it. He's valuable to us right now but I don't know if we can ever count on him to be much more than what we've already seen. Is that worth the max? Don't know. But someone will likely pay it.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton made it clear a few years ago, since his early/mid teen years his goal has been to provide for his family. He's not evil, he's not even selfish, it's just the simple truth, he's playing basketball to secure his family for generations to come. It doesn't mean he's going to get his max deal and then mail it in, but unfortunately, it doesn't mean he isn't.

I don't know what to do about him. I like him, I think he's a sincerely nice kid and even when he's playing soft his presence on the court forces the opposition to account for him on both ends. He wants to be great but I don't know if he'll ever want it enough to fully commit to it. He's valuable to us right now but I don't know if we can ever count on him to be much more than what we've already seen. Is that worth the max? Don't know. But someone will likely pay it.

If you give a massive contract to a player that struggles with assertiveness/focus it’s not going to improve says this dime store psychologist.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If you give a massive contract to a player that struggles with assertiveness/focus it’s not going to improve says this dime store psychologist.

I kind of thought I'd implied the same thing? He is improving but he's far from what he can be and I have no confidence he'll ever get much closer to his potential. But even a slightly improved and slightly more consistent Ayton would still be a valuable player, close to max worthy (normal max). It's difficult to just give up on someone like that unless we can get decent value in a trade.

 

[GatorAZ]

I kind of thought I'd implied the same thing? He is improving but he's far from what he can be and I have no confidence he'll ever get much closer to his potential. But even a slightly improved and slightly more consistent Ayton would still be a valuable player, close to max worthy (normal max). It's difficult to just give up on someone like that unless we can get decent value in a trade.

Just adding to your insinuation. Can’t say the Smith pick didn’t trigger something in my head about their feelings on DA.

 

[jagu]

DeAndre Ayton's rebounds are great but I've never seen a waste of athleticism like Ayton has in a long time.

 

[Mainstreet]

Optimistically my hope is that Ayton is still concentrating on certain parts of his game at a time.

An example is that he is presently concentrating on defense and rebounding.

One day my wish is that his defensive and offensive game come together as he gets comfortable with the speed of the NBA.

 

[jagu]

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82-73 SUNS 4th Quarter
0:17 seconds left
Ayton for three with no rebounders down low.

 

[jagu]

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Why is Ayton never rolling quick enough on a Pick and Roll? The man he screens out is in better positioning than he is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Why is Ayton never rolling quick enough on a Pick and Roll? The man he screens out is in better positioning than he is.

That’s almost always the case

 

[jagu]

It's scary that some or most of these weaknesses are still here. I do think he's better defensively than what he was when he came into the league but IQ concerns are real and he's still a poor screen setter/pick and roll player with limited intelligence handling the pick and roll. The athleticism is there but the intensity/motor is still far behind where it should be. Wholly agree with the "seems a step slow" part. A step slow to roll on the screen, a step slow to catch a pass under the hoop and dunk it, a step slow to set the screen. I think that's a big hurdle to pass when you don't have the IQ to fix it.


Draft Profile: DeAndre Ayton - The Stepien

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[Mainstreet]

It's scary that some or most of these weaknesses are still here. I do think he's better defensively than what he was when he came into the league but IQ concerns are real and he's still a poor screen setter/pick and roll player with limited intelligence handling the pick and roll. The athleticism is there but the intensity/motor is still far behind where it should be. Wholly agree with the "seems a step slow" part.


Draft Profile: DeAndre Ayton - The Stepien

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The weaknesses are on target. I'm hoping his strengths win out long term.

 

[jagu]

The weaknesses are on target. I'm hoping his strengths win out long term.

I think his strengths are his ability to meet the ball at the right point and grab boards which should remain a strength and he has a decent post game which shines against weaker teams. Unless he really adds bulk and adds stronger post moves he's kind of iffy on growing on the offensive end. I'm very concerned about his inability to draw fouls as a big man which is a huge red flag for me. I think a lot of his issues can go away if he adds some bulk and can draw some fouls. He's a great free throw shooter for a big man so it's a waste if he isn't at the line all night.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think his strengths are his ability to meet the ball at the right point and grab boards which should remain a strength and he has a decent post game which shines against weaker teams. Unless he really adds bulk and adds stronger post moves he's kind of iffy on growing on the offensive end. I'm very concerned about his inability to draw fouls as a big man which is a huge red flag for me. I think a lot of his issues can go away if he adds some bulk and can draw some fouls. He's a great free throw shooter for a big man so it's a waste if he isn't at the line all night.

Think what the Suns would be with a player like Karl-Anthony Towns in the middle.

 

[Yuma]

I saw an analysis of Embid, who is four seasons further along than Ayton, and at the same points in each's career similar progression. Embid even called out by Barkley to get more aggressive. Most big men take longer to develop. We have a starting center, a SG, a PG, SF and PF that match up well with the rest of the league. It's going to be hard to make a trade now that doesn't take away something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Think what the Suns would be with a player like Karl-Anthony Towns in the middle.

i’ve thought about this, but Towns isn’t much of a defender.

that said, neither was Ayton until Monty started coaching him.

if Monty could do for Towns’ D what he’s done for Ayton, he’d be the missing piece to make this team a true championship contender because he’s already a force offensively and on the boards. And I’m guessing after another atrocious season, Towns might start chirping about wanting out.

 

[Mainstreet]

ive thought about this, but Towns isn’t much of a defender.

that said, neither was Ayton until Monty started coaching him.

if Monty could do for Towns’ D what he’s done for Ayton, he’d be the missing piece to make this team a true championship contender because he’s already a force offensively and on the boards. And I’m guessing after another atrocious season, Towns might start chirping about wanting out.

Too bad the Suns had to part with their first round pick in the Chris Paul trade. Ayton and a couple of first round picks might get it done.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I saw an analysis of Embid, who is four seasons further along than Ayton, and at the same points in each's career similar progression. Embid even called out by Barkley to get more aggressive. Most big men take longer to develop. We have a starting center, a SG, a PG, SF and PF that match up well with the rest of the league. It's going to be hard to make a trade now that doesn't take away something.

This is just in NO way true. Just look at stats. Embiid in third full season was at 28/14/4/2. Granted he was older than Ayton and got air the bench for two seasons and learn. But even his first season actually playing/third season he was at 20/8/3/2.5