Deandre Ayton on Joel Embiid: ‘I’m about to copy all of that’

[BC867]

I never said he is getting help. I said he is not blocking shots. Then a bunch of you wanted to find an assortment excuses. It’s the coach, he doesn’t want to get fouls, he’s not getting help, he played power forward in college, he doesn’t see a reason to try hard, he’s altering shots. Despite all that . . . still not blocking shots.

Not blocking shots ... not blocking shots.

Do you really think 3 or 4 blocked shots a game is worth anything near his potential as a scorer and distributor and rebounder and defender. And status symbol as our only #1 pick in 50 years.

The Suns are giving us so little to cheer for. Enjoy the positives, Ouchie. It is all we have at this time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not blocking shots ... not blocking shots.

Do you really think 3 or 4 blocked shots a game is worth anything near his potential as a scorer and distributor and rebounder and defender. And status symbol as our only #1 pick in 50 years.

The Suns are giving us so little to cheer for. Enjoy the positives, Ouchie. It is all we have at this time.

I don’t get this argument at all. One doesn’t come at the cost of the other.

 

[Hoop Head]

Not blocking shots ... not blocking shots.

Do you really think 3 or 4 blocked shots a game is worth anything near his potential as a scorer and distributor and rebounder and defender. And status symbol as our only #1 pick in 50 years.

The Suns are giving us so little to cheer for. Enjoy the positives, Ouchie. It is all we have at this time.

So you're willing to accept Ayton's warts as a Center who can't protect the rim but aren't willing to accept Booker as our PG because he's a natural SG and needs to score more than facilitate? Why not just enjoy Booker playing for the Suns, we have so little to enjoy as Suns fan. Booker wearing a Suns uniform and being our leader on the floor should be enough to please you, regardless of the position he plays.

See how that works? Why does it work to ignore Ayton's shortcomings but no one else?

 

[1Sun]

So you're willing to accept Ayton's warts as a Center who can't protect the rim but aren't willing to accept Booker as our PG because he's a natural SG and needs to score more than facilitate? Why not just enjoy Booker playing for the Suns, we have so little to enjoy as Suns fan. Booker wearing a Suns uniform and being our leader on the floor should be enough to please you, regardless of the position he plays.

See how that works? Why does it work to ignore Ayton's shortcomings but no one else?

Because Ayton is a rookie, while Booker is in his fourth year in the league and just signed a max contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

I never said he is getting help. I said he is not blocking shots. Then a bunch of you wanted to find an assortment excuses. It’s the coach, he doesn’t want to get fouls, he’s not getting help, he played power forward in college, he doesn’t see a reason to try hard, he’s altering shots. Despite all that . . . still not blocking shots.

Which “excuses” are factually false? If it’s a fact it’s not an excuse. You want to put this all on Ayton which is ridiculous. I recognize he is partially to blame.

 

[BC867]

Ouchie, why are you making shot blocking his highest priority? As I posted, how many shots would you expect him to block per game (without picking up fouls for contact)?

Is that ever more important than him being able to play his full minutes . . . to score and facilitate and rebound and defend?

I have never heard anyone make shot blocking the most important aspect of a Center's game. If he can, he can. If he can't, he has so much more to offer. Doesn't he?

For of all the defensive plays a Center can make, shot blocking is the riskiest. There is such a fine point between touching the ball (or even the hand on the ball) and hitting some other part of the shooter. To accomplish 2 or 3 or 4 blocks a game and foul on 2 or 3 or 4 or more others.

 

[1tinsoldier]

one could make the case that the best defense is just harassing a player without committing to blocks or steals which can often have negative consequences.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Which “excuses” are factually false? If it’s a fact it’s not an excuse. You want to put this all on Ayton which is ridiculous. I recognize he is partially to blame.

Some prisons gave orange jumpsuits. That a fact. Does it cause Ayton to not block shots? As much as those other facts do I guess.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchie, why are you making shot blocking his highest priority? As I posted, how many shots would you expect him to block per game (without picking up fouls for contact)?

Is that ever more important than him being able to play his full minutes . . . to score and facilitate and rebound and defend?

I have never heard anyone make shot blocking the most important aspect of a Center's game. If he can, he can. If he can't, he has so much more to offer. Doesn't he?

For of all the defensive plays a Center can make, shot blocking is the riskiest. There is such a fine point between touching the ball (or even the hand on the ball) and hitting some other part of the shooter. To accomplish 2 or 3 or 4 blocks a game and foul on 2 or 3 or 4 or more others.

There it is! The old putting false words into someone’s mouth. Please quote where I said anything close to shot blocking being the “highest priority.” Nope. Never said it. Nothing even close. But each position has a list of skills desired. Center has rim protection typically in its list. I suppose if we get a great scoring point guard who can’t pass the ball we should ignore that too?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For of all the defensive plays a Center can make, shot blocking is the riskiest. There is such a fine point between touching the ball (or even the hand on the ball) and hitting some other part of the shooter. To accomplish 2 or 3 or 4 blocks a game and foul on 2 or 3 or 4 or more others.

And yet other top tier centers and even many with fewer physical gifts than Ayton do it all the time. Fancy that!

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are only two factors common to the Suns defensive woes the last few seasons. The coaches have changed. The GM has changed. All the players have changed except Devin Booker and TJ Warren. Just those two.

I love Devin Booker. He is an amazing offensive player. But he has to start playing some level of D for this team to improve.

 

[Cheesebeef]

one could make the case that the best defense is just harassing a player without committing to blocks or steals which can often have negative consequences.

unfortunately, that case can't really be made about Ayton. On the perimeter, maybe, but as a rim protector...

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Cheesebeef]

here's the reality, IMO right now. Ayton is just as gifted offensively as I thought he'd be and has all the ability in the world to become all-world on that side of the court. Defensively he's got a loooooooooooooong way to go.

 

[1tinsoldier]

unfortunately, that case can't really be made about Ayton. On the perimeter, maybe, but as a rim protector...

i was not making that case about Ayton

 

[Covert Rain]

Some prisons gave orange jumpsuits. That a fact. Does it cause Ayton to not block shots? As much as those other facts do I guess.

Uh....OK. Nice Texas two step! None of the other stuff is remotely related...like an orange jump suit.

LMAO.

Hit the egg nog early this year? LOL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Uh....OK. Nice Texas two step! None of the other stuff is remotely related...like an orange jump suit.

LMAO.

Hit the egg nog early this year? LOL.

I’ll say what I said earlier, unless his coaching is instructing him not to go after block shots (i find that unlikely with a terrible defensive team) or positioning him defensively outside the paint (not happening), or his terrible defensive teammates are literally hugging his arms to his sides, none of those facts inhibit his ability to block shots. None. And to suggest such is just the typical “my guy can do no wrong and I’m going to do hyper-yoga to bend myself in every direction to find excuses for his failure.” If Ayton played for another team, or was traded, all of you yogis would bashing his lack of blocks as why he’ll never be great.

The funny thing is, I’m not even bashing him. Just pointing out the fact that he’s a terrible shot blocker.

 

[1Sun]

I’ll say what I said earlier, unless his coaching is instructing him not to go after block shots (i find that unlikely with a terrible defensive team) or positioning him defensively outside the paint (not happening), or his terrible defensive teammates are literally hugging his arms to his sides, none of those facts inhibit his ability to block shots. None. And to suggest such is just the typical “my guy can do no wrong and I’m going to do hyper-yoga to bend myself in every direction to find excuses for his failure.” If Ayton played for another team, or was traded, all of you yogis would bashing his lack of blocks as why he’ll never be great.

The funny thing is, I’m not even bashing him. Just pointing out the fact that he’s a terrible shot blocker.

Actually, I wouldn't put it past Igor Kokoskov to instruct him not to go after blocked shots. And Kokoskov clearly positions him outside, at least some if the time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually, I wouldn't put it past Igor Kokoskov to instruct him not to go after blocked shots. And Kokoskov clearly positions him outside, at least some if the time.

The first is conjecture, the latter is wrong. Ayton guards opposing centers. As such he’s always around the paint. I’d say 90% of the time he’s in good defensive position to guard the rim.

 

[Covert Rain]

I’ll say what I said earlier, unless his coaching is instructing him not to go after block shots (i find that unlikely with a terrible defensive team) or positioning him defensively outside the paint (not happening), or his terrible defensive teammates are literally hugging his arms to his sides, none of those facts inhibit his ability to block shots. None. And to suggest such is just the typical “my guy can do no wrong and I’m going to do hyper-yoga to bend myself in every direction to find excuses for his failure.” If Ayton played for another team, or was traded, all of you yogis would bashing his lack of blocks as why he’ll never be great.

The funny thing is, I’m not even bashing him. Just pointing out the fact that he’s a terrible shot blocker.

You think this is street ball and that defense schemes, rotations etc. don’t determine defensive assignments and positioning? That’s your take? That’s ludicrous.

Also you just bitched about people putting words into your mouth and now your doing it too. Your massive exaggerated points nobody is making is funny.

Again if you would like to refute specific points I made without all the hyperbole great. Again, nowhere did I make excuses nor did I say Ayton doesn’t share the blame.

If that is your idea of Yoga maybe you should try meditation.

IMO there is plenty of blame to go around and it’s hardly just Ayton. Ayton isn’t “my guy” so I have no skin in the game other than wanting the team to win a title. If I had to have “my guy” it would probably be Booker.

P.S. Maybe I am just not ready to jump the gun on the kid yet. If in a month or so he still is playing the same way defensively I will be more critical. I am no Lopez/Beasley type defender.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You think this is street ball and that defense schemes, rotations etc. don’t determine defensive assignments and positioning? That’s your take? That’s ludicrous.

Also you just bitched about people putting words into your mouth and now your doing it too. Your massive exaggerated points nobody is making is funny.

Again if you would like to refute specific points I made without all the hyperbole great. Again, nowhere did I make excuses nor did I say Ayton doesn’t share the blame.

If that is your idea of Yoga maybe you should try meditation.

IMO there is plenty of blame to go around and it’s hardly just Ayton. Ayton isn’t “my guy” so I have no skin in the game other than wanting the team to win a title. If I had to have “my guy” it would probably be Booker.

P.S. Maybe I am just not ready to jump the gun on the kid yet. If in a month or so he still is playing the same way defensively I will be more critical. I am no Lopez/Beasley type defender.

Of course those have an impact, but you don’t know their defensive scheme. None of us do. But I have yet to see any NBA defensive scheme that is designed for a stud center not to protect the rim and to suggest that might be what’s inhibiting his blocked shots is kinda silly, no?

And If you review this thread it’s full of one excuse after another (coaching, teammates, avoiding fouls have all been floated as reasons why he can’t block shots). That’s not me putting words in anyone’s mouth. That’s what people have posted.

And when I say “your guy” aw forget it this discussion isn’t going anywhere. None of what anyone has posted makes him a good rim protector. It is what it is.

 

[Covert Rain]

Of course those have an impact, but you don’t know their defensive scheme. None of us do. But I have yet to see any NBA defensive scheme that is designed for a stud center not to protect the rim and to suggest that might be what’s inhibiting his blocked shots is kinda silly, no?

And If you review this thread it’s full of one excuse after another (coaching, teammates, avoiding fouls have all been floated as reasons why he can’t block shots). That’s not me putting words in anyone’s mouth. That’s what people have posted.

And when I say “your guy” aw forget it this discussion isn’t going anywhere. None of what anyone has posted makes him a good rim protector. It is what it is.

What about Igor says he built this team around a stud center? I don’t see much of any specific scheme out of Igor!??

Also, I don’t see anybody giving Ayton a complete pass here or maybe I just missed it.

 

[elindholm]

Of course those have an impact, but you don’t know their defensive scheme. None of us do.

Don't feel bad, the players have no idea what the defensive scheme is either.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What about Igor says he built this team around a stud center? I don’t see much of any specific scheme out of Igor!??

Also, I don’t see anybody giving Ayton a complete pass here or maybe I just missed it.

Nothing other than common sense, the fact that Igor came from a team built around Gobert, the fact that in preseason Ayton literally said that he was supposed to be the quarterback/anchor of the defense, and the fact that his team just drafted a dominant center. I think the reasonable person, if forced to make an assumption (which should’nt be necessary given Ayton explicit comments that he was the anchor of the D), would view these facts and assume that the D is centered on Ayton being the rim protector verses your assumption that the system doesn’t make him the focal point based on . . . your opinion?

And never did I say anyone gave him “a complete pass” but rather I see a slew of excuses as to why he isn’t blocking shots that seem to indicate it’s not his fault. Sorry he’s 7’1 and a superior athlete . . . again unless he’s being told not to go for block shots or someone is physically restraining him, I think those excuses are apologists that can’t accept one of their players has a hole or deficiency in his game. That’s it. End of story.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Don't feel bad, the players have no idea what the defensive scheme is either.

Haha . . . and ugh.

 

[1Sun]

Don't feel bad, the players have no idea what the defensive scheme is either.

Neither does the coach.