DeAngelo Williams vs LenDale White

[NEZCardsfan]

We could get a chain mover/goaline back without spending a #10 pick. Also if Arrington truly is the guy regardless of size he should be counted on to produce in the redzone.

Some backs just can't be counted on in the redzone, I think JJ fits that mold. Dunn isn't much of a goal line back either. That's why Duckett is still employed there.

Would you be happy if LenDale could come in here and get us 8-10 TDs, that were FGs the year before?? Could be the difference in 3 or 4 games, between a win and a loss.

 

[Duckjake]

I can see your logic on RBs having to get bigger. Don't know if I necessarily agree with it. Being big isn't a real indicator of being durable or not. Warrick Dunn is tiny and he has stayed healthy. Chris Brown has prototypical size, and he has had injury problems already. It appears it is how your body absorbs those blows. Some are better at avoiding injury than others.

I've always said it's not your size, it's how you run.

I'm not thinking so much in terms of durability but more in being able to absorb hits and stay on their feet. Whether they be the full hit, like the one where Huff hit the guy in the hole and bounced off, or swipes of the arms or other bumps a back gets running the ball. As defenders continue to get bigger those bumps are going to get harder. And as the larger people shrink the field there will be less space to manuever without getting hit.

More and more of the "little" backs will be accused of being tackled by a soft breeze when in reality the "soft breeze" was the arm or shoulder of a 295lb DE with arms as big as the legs on the guys who won the National Championship for Texas in 1969.

So just like teams are searching for taller CB's to counter the 6'4" WR's teams will look to 6' 230lb RB's to take the hits from the college DE's who play OLB in the NFL. Plus IMO there will be more 6' 230lb guys with speed and moves you used to see only in 5'10" 215lb runners every year. And if you don't think 2" and 15lbs mean much just ask your wife or girlfriend.

It might not be tomorrow but it's coming soon to an NFL stadium near you.

 

[Shane]

Some backs just can't be counted on in the redzone, I think JJ fits that mold. Dunn isn't much of a goal line back either. That's why Duckett is still employed there.

Would you be happy if LenDale could come in here and get us 8-10 TDs, that were FGs the year before?? Could be the difference in 3 or 4 games, between a win and a loss.

Sure I would be happy. But we dont need to spend a #10 pick on a guy to do it. Brandon Jacobs of the Giants is a prime example.

If JJ is the answer he should be able to score TDs. Or hes not the answer iMO.

 

[Pariah]

And if you don't think 2" and 15lbs mean much just ask your wife or girlfriend.

:notworthy

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Can't you make the argument that a smaller, more compact back, is harder to get a solid shot on?? Kind of how Emmitt seemed to scoot his way into the record books. I never saw anybody lay a crushing hit on him his entire career.

 

[spanky1]

Some backs just can't be counted on in the redzone, I think JJ fits that mold. Dunn isn't much of a goal line back either. That's why Duckett is still employed there.

Would you be happy if LenDale could come in here and get us 8-10 TDs, that were FGs the year before?? Could be the difference in 3 or 4 games, between a win and a loss.

Finally, someone has put a quantifyable statement in front of us regarding red zone running.....which is the crux of the RB issue.......a RB that can get six points where we have been forced to take three.....bravo NEZCardsfan.

 

[Chopper0080]

As far as runningback size goes...many linebackers will tell you that they have the most trouble with shorter runningbacks. The reason is that while the linebackers can lock onto a taller back behind the line and drill him at 100 mph, they arent' able to get that momentum built up against shorter backs. This allows the shorter backs to generate leverage run through the tackles of bigger linebackers.

I really think that by passing up D Williams we might be passing up another great NFL runningback, but I find it difficult to pass on L White when what he does best is what we need the most. He gets two yards on 3rd and 2 and he scores touchdowns. If we were better at these two things last year we would have been .500. We are going to move the ball in our passing game, that is certain but where 2006 needs to differ from 2005 is our ability to produce on 3rd down and score touchdowns. I think that Lendale does these two things better than most players available. Hell, it might be a Trojan day for the Cardinals with Lendale White in round 1 and Dominic Bryd in round 2.

 

[Chopper0080]

Thanks Spanky, now I look like a glory poacher.

 

[Duckjake]

Can't you make the argument that a smaller, more compact back, is harder to get a solid shot on?? Kind of how Emmitt seemed to scoot his way into the record books. I never saw anybody lay a crushing hit on him his entire career.

Well that's really the main point of my theory. As we keep getting more defensive players like Dansby they won't need a solid shot anymore to knock down the smaller backs.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Well that's really the main point of my theory. As we keep getting more defensive players like Dansby they won't need a solid shot anymore to knock down the smaller backs.

I haven't seen that yet. Barber had a career year, he is 5-10 200 lbs. Warrick Dunn had a career year, he is 5-9 180 lbs. LT isn't huge. Portis keeps getting it done and he is not very large.

I think we are discussing balance. I don't know if it has anything to do with something you can measure on a scale and with a ruler. It has to do with center of gravity and being able to keep your feet moving when being hit.

 

[Duckjake]

I haven't seen that yet. Barber had a career year, he is 5-10 200 lbs. Warrick Dunn had a career year, he is 5-9 180 lbs. LT isn't huge. Portis keeps getting it done and he is not very large.

I think we are discussing balance. I don't know if it has anything to do with something you can measure on a scale and with a ruler. It has to do with center of gravity and being able to keep your feet moving when being hit.

Probably, but baseball players are now mostly over 6' and 200lbs(well they were before the steroid scandal) so are most of the World's top golfers. The NBA is full of enormous human beings who can actually move around the basket instead of being 7' tall stiffs. Most of the girls in my daughters 7th grade class are already as tall as or taller than their mothers.

I'm not saying the time is right now but that the trend is headed that way and in a few years I'm betting most of the RB's in the NFL will be more like Larry Johnson than Warrick Dunn or JJ Arrington.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Okay i respect everyones opinion on this and it seems like a pretty lively debate....but i will give you one more way to look at this.....

Lets say both guys are busts.....or at least dont play to their expected value of where they are drafted by the Cardinals....(obviously this not out of the realm of possibility as Hearst, McElroy, Tjones and now Arrington are all the sample size we have to deal with)

Now what is the biggest problem with our team? I would say its offense in the red zone (and it has been for a long time)...lets look at the two of the top teams in red zone efficieny, both playing in the SB. The Seahawks and Steelers. The Seahawks have a big smooth back in Alexander and Steelers have the Bus. Because once you get to the five yard line, a bigger back is the ideal (a great offensive line is the "ideal" but work with me here)...

so lets revisit if both guys are not the 25 carry backs we hope them to be (much like Arrington)...Well which guy at the very least is going to be a good goal line back? I dont think White is the type of runner that won't succeed because he gets hit behind the line (which i think could be the case with Williams if he is a bust)...White is more likely to be not fast enough or hit the holes with speed.....but that wouldnt matter AS MUCH at the goal line.....

I guess all i keep thinking about i us getting into the red zone and not being to hand the ball to JJ and being disgusted that he couldnt pusha guy for that 1 yard when we absolutly needed him to. Williams is likely alot better than JJ, but i cant get that image out of my head.

I want to score TD's and i think White is the guy who does that. Im not ready to give up on JJ yet either (as i think a better line and a guy helping with the load will increase his production) and i just think Lendale White was made for this team, with our current personnel and draft position.

Williams might be Emmitt Smith, but White could be Jerome Bettis. Remember when making that comparison that as good as Emmitt was, he played behind an all-pro line and if he had been drafted by say...the Cardinals or another team with a poor line (Detroit comes to mind since everyone likes to compare Barry and Emmitt) he wouldnt be the special player he is now. So if we had the luxury of a great line, i would be more on board with Williams. But we don't and it wont change over one off season. Bettis on the other hand played for mediocre lines in St. Louis, and while Pittsburgh's is good, i think that he made players look alot better than they were (Oliver Ross anyone?). With that size, you can gain yards w/o a great line. And thats what we need guys...POSITIVE YARDS...we dont need to go after the next home run threat, as theoretically we did that last year and it didnt work out. Unless its a once in a lifetime guy like Bush, give me the big back all day......

White will run north-south (which is a problem smaller backs run into when they become cardinals because of the bad line play and bad habits developed thusly) and gain 3 and 4 and 5 yards the first three quarters....and then get more in the fourth. Our running game will have to be more respected and then BOOM! Q and Fitz (our REAL HR threats) will get behind loose coverage.

I guess what im trying to say is that while I think Lendale White has shown me enough to think he will be a special runner in the L, its more the fact that he is a power back that i like.

Take the names away and look at it this way:

HR shifty back or Power back.......?

IMHO I think the Cardinals need to try a different route and go for the power guy.......

 

[Duckjake]

Take the names away and look at it this way:

HR shifty back or Power back.......?

IMHO I think the Cardinals need to try a different route and go for the power guy.......

We can have both. Just go back and look at the Jonathan Wells thread.

I don't care if the Cards take White or not as long as they pick up somebody who can get them 3 yards when they need two.