DeCastro or Ingram

[JeffGollin]

R
Ingram is also a one year wonder. Mercilus led all of college football with 16 sacks and 9 forced fumbles so yea it is a great idea.

Forget about "drafting rules of thumb" and focus on whether which player looks most likely to be successful and will be most likely to help us.

At my age, I'm too lazy to comb the record books, but I'm pretty sure that, for every one-year wonder who's succeeded, there has been at least one who has failed. And for every guy with a hefty sack and FF total who'se been successful, there's been at least one dud.

Obviously, gaudy or non-gaudy stats help establish the frame for the debate about each player, but in the end, it's about watching what the dude has done on tape and trying to visualize how he would look in whatever role the Cards plan for him.

 

[Dr. Jones]

DeCastro. In case of BPA ties, go for need (with Snyder moving to RT and DCastro,slotted at RG).

This.

Better player.
Bigger need.
Safer pick.
Higher positional value.

 

[kerouac9]

This.

Better player.
Bigger need.
Safer pick.
Higher positional value.

Both of these things are untrue (OG having more positional value than OLB?!). How does that change your equation?

 

[52brandon]

More often than not I've read that DeCastro is a "sure thing" and I've never read that about Ingram. Of course we know there is probably no such thing as a ''sure" thing, and Mitch makes a good point that we already have a good RG, so based on need he opts for Ingram. IMO, it's a mute point because I don't think that Ingram will be available at #13. I go back to the old football axiom, that you build your team starting with the OL and DL. As you all know we have a good DL but we need to address the OL. And don't tell me that you don't draft based on need, you just don't reach for a player based on need. My choice for #13 is Reiff as tackles are more important than guards, another axiom. For this thread I went with DeCastro, but feel that on Thursday the 26th we trade back and select Cordy Glenn. JMWO.

moot point. Sorry, don't usually play the part of spelling/grammar nazi, but for whatever reason, that one always sticks way out to me. Otherwise, I agree. I think OL is so much more of a priority to us

Both of these things are untrue (OG having more positional value than OLB?!). How does that change your equation?

it's not like our OLBs are trash though. Acho has proven to be a beast as a rookie and hopefully Scho can wrap his mind around Horton's plans with a full off-season to work with him. Our OL is just sad. We at least have potential at OLB, our O-line, can't even really say that

 

[Dr. Jones]

Both of these things are untrue (OG having more positional value than OLB?!). How does that change your equation?

Get a QB
Protect the QB
Rush the QB

Those are my personal beliefs. And IMO DD is the 2nd best offensive lineman in the draft. Actually, I think he is the 4th best O-Line prospect to come out since 2009.

Kalil
Okung
T. Smith
DD

Then I factor in that Ingram has holes in his game. Like not forcing a single fumble his entire college career, Short arm length, and an aloof disposition.
Then I factor in that DD will play over 90% of the snaps next year. (barring injury)
Then I look at Acho & ObScho having Ingrams position on lock down.
Then I factor in Horton's scheme, which relies on pressure from any position, not just one player.

The decision becomes very clear for me.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Both of these things are untrue (OG having more positional value than OLB?!). How does that change your equation?

Also K9. You didn't highlight the fact that Decastro is just simply a better player. I think we all have seen that this team will pick BPA at a position of need. DD is a much better, and more consistent player that Melvin Ingram has been.

 

[kerouac9]

it's not like our OLBs are trash though. Acho has proven to be a beast as a rookie and hopefully Scho can wrap his mind around Horton's plans with a full off-season to work with him. Our OL is just sad. We at least have potential at OLB, our O-line, can't even really say that

A "beast"? Acho was great value as a rookie, but he's not, in all likelihood, going be a 15-sack a season guy. Schofield is based on hope, but hope isn't a plan. Behind both of them we have nothing.

We have three legitimate starting NFL guards on our roster right now in Bridges, Colledge, and Snyder. You might not love them, but there's no question they're starting-quality players, and the jump from Snyder to DeCastro isn't close to the jump from Reggie Walker to Melvin Ingram.

 

[kerouac9]

Also K9. You didn't highlight the fact that Decastro is just simply a better player. I think we all have seen that this team will pick BPA at a position of need. DD is a much better, and more consistent player that Melvin Ingram has been.

I like David DeCastro, but IMO you're very much overrating him. When all is said and done, he may not even be the best offensive guard to come out of his draft class.

You put your list of reasons together why you like DeCastro over Ingram. You can poll any GM in the NFL, and 32 of them will tell you that they'd rather have an elite pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. The majority would likely tell you that they'd rather have an above-average pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. That's just the way the NFL is today.

As for need, as I said above, we have 3 starting-caliber offensive guards on the roster. At OLB, we have Sam Acho and a promising third-year player in Schofield who has yet to break through and... well, Reggie Walker might make the final 53 man roster.

 

[Duckjake]

A "beast"? Acho was great value as a rookie, but he's not, in all likelihood, going be a 15-sack a season guy. Schofield is based on hope, but hope isn't a plan. Behind both of them we have nothing.

We have three legitimate starting NFL guards on our roster right now in Bridges, Colledge, and Snyder. You might not love them, but there's no question they're starting-quality players, and the jump from Snyder to DeCastro isn't close to the jump from Reggie Walker to Melvin Ingram.

Yes Acho is a "beast" but he needs to be the Beast that anchors the left side of the Cardinals Defense, where you must have a strong anchor as almost all NFL teams are right handed, for the next 4 years. He's not a guy who is going to equal Simeon Rice or Bertrand Berry's production from the right side.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I like David DeCastro, but IMO you're very much overrating him. When all is said and done, he may not even be the best offensive guard to come out of his draft class.

You put your list of reasons together why you like DeCastro over Ingram. You can poll any GM in the NFL, and 32 of them will tell you that they'd rather have an elite pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. The majority would likely tell you that they'd rather have an above-average pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. That's just the way the NFL is today.

As for need, as I said above, we have 3 starting-caliber offensive guards on the roster. At OLB, we have Sam Acho and a promising third-year player in Schofield who has yet to break through and... well, Reggie Walker might make the final 53 man roster.

Best guard prospect since Hutchinson is how Decasteo is being described by some, and that certainly trumps the initial evaluation of Ingram with position value considered.

 

[52brandon]

A "beast"? Acho was great value as a rookie, but he's not, in all likelihood, going be a 15-sack a season guy. Schofield is based on hope, but hope isn't a plan. Behind both of them we have nothing.

We have three legitimate starting NFL guards on our roster right now in Bridges, Colledge, and Snyder. You might not love them, but there's no question they're starting-quality players, and the jump from Snyder to DeCastro isn't close to the jump from Reggie Walker to Melvin Ingram.

what about tackles? Would you say Bridges and Brown are legit tackles too? I'd rather Decastro help strengthen our line and have Bridges, Snyder and Brown for OTs and see what we can do with Scho and Acho as our starting OLBs. Our D was our strength last year, more importantly, our offense was pathetic, with the best WR in the game, it's just not acceptable. I'd rather our D stay the same and we improve our offense, than our D improve and our offense still give up great field position 50% of our possessions

 

[WildBB]

More often than not I've read that DeCastro is a "sure thing" and I've never read that about Ingram. Of course we know there is probably no such thing as a ''sure" thing, and Mitch makes a good point that we already have a good RG, so based on need he opts for Ingram. IMO, it's a mute point because I don't think that Ingram will be available at #13. I go back to the old football axiom, that you build your team starting with the OL and DL. As you all know we have a good DL but we need to address the OL. And don't tell me that you don't draft based on need, you just don't reach for a player based on need. My choice for #13 is Reiff as tackles are more important than guards, another axiom. For this thread I went with DeCastro, but feel that on Thursday the 26th we trade back and select Cordy Glenn. JMWO.

OL isn't the only need, although it is a main need. We have need of a more consistant pass rush and coverage as well, among the still QB issues at hand.

Great pass rushers are hard to find, and when you find one who can also play the run well, then you have a legit top 15 find.

But if we can, I agree, trade back some. RG is not a desperate need. Down the line upgrades can be had later in the draft, there will be some available. Pass rushers....not really.

 

[Duckjake]

Bridges, Snyder and Brown for OTs

I can see it now. Since all of our QBs are from Texas, Whisenhunt and Miller install the Texas Two Step Drop passing game.

 

[JeffGollin]

Yes Acho is a "beast" but he needs to be the Beast that anchors the left side of the Cardinals Defense, where you must have a strong anchor as almost all NFL teams are right handed, for the next 4 years. He's not a guy who is going to equal Simeon Rice or Bertrand Berry's production from the right side.

Actually I wouldn't describe Acho as a "beast" but more a big, very smart guy who played faster than expected and learned his position quicker than most rookie.

He's one of those guys a coach can slot into a position and not worry about him - plus he's going to make a few game-influencing plays.

But "beast?" I'd be more incined to reserve that description for guys like Lawrence Taylor, Butkus or Urlacher.

 

[52brandon]

Actually I wouldn't describe Acho as a "beast" but more a big, very smart guy who played faster than expected and learned his position quicker than most rookie.

He's one of those guys a coach can slot into a position and not worry about him - plus he's going to make a few game-influencing plays.

But "beast?" I'd be more incined to reserve that description for guys like Lawrence Taylor, Butkus or Urlacher.

big, fast, smart and strong. That's pretty much exactly what I would cal a beast. LT, Urlacher, and Butkus are HOFers and legends. Acho was a rookie, that played backup to Porter the 1st half of the season and still shared time with Schofield as a backup and then later even when he was starting, and he still racked up 7 sacks. Just 1 less than Urlacher's rookie season

 

[Dr. Jones]

I like David DeCastro, but IMO you're very much overrating him. When all is said and done, he may not even be the best offensive guard to come out of his draft class.

You put your list of reasons together why you like DeCastro over Ingram. You can poll any GM in the NFL, and 32 of them will tell you that they'd rather have an elite pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. The majority would likely tell you that they'd rather have an above-average pass rusher than an elite offensive guard. That's just the way the NFL is today.

As for need, as I said above, we have 3 starting-caliber offensive guards on the roster. At OLB, we have Sam Acho and a promising third-year player in Schofield who has yet to break through and... well, Reggie Walker might make the final 53 man roster.

I respect your opinion K9.

In my opinion though, I don't view Ingram as an "Elite" pass rusher. I see him more as a boom or bust guy who shows some attributes of a guy who might become a good pass rusher. I never want to draft a guy who comes across (at least to me) as not having a non-stop motor. Especially at OLB in a 3-4 scheme.

Then you factor in a lack of fluidty, short arms, and a lack of recognition to attack the ball while tackling.

Decastro is almost...... I repeat ALMOST..... the 4th safest player in the entire draft class. Behind Luck, Kalil, & Richardson, he seems the 4th most likely person to be GREAT at his position.

How can anyone reasonably pass that up when you are drafting outside of the top 10? Especially if the other options aren't a complete slam dunk?

 

[Duckjake]

big, fast, smart and strong. That's pretty much exactly what I would call a beast. LT, Urlacher, and Butkus are HOFers and legends. Acho was a rookie, that played backup to Porter the 1st half of the season and still shared time with Schofield as a backup and then later even when he was starting, and he still racked up 7 sacks. Just 1 less than Urlacher's rookie season

Exactly, and because he's big and fast and smart and strong Horton can move him all over in his Picasso Defenses. A perfect guy for Ray.

 

[52brandon]

Exactly, and because he's big and fast and smart and strong Horton can move him all over in his Picasso Defenses. A perfect guy for Ray.

lol, I don't care for Picasso's work, so I can't make that comparison. I hope Horton is as successful though

 

[Dayman]

I would be happy with either of them, but I'll give the edge to DeCastro. If you run an offense with pulling guards, he's pretty much the ideal prospect. He's also more consistent than Ingram, whose effort worries me at times.

 

[Chopper0080]

Last year the same 1 year of college production scenario applied to Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn---and it looks like both the 49ers and the Rams made good calls on them. But, I know what you mean Chopper---it's a crap shoot at times with 1 year wonders.

I will give you Aldon Smith, but Robert Quinn played in a 4-3 as a DE, the exact position he played in college. That is the difference.

 

[Chopper0080]

R
Ingram is also a one year wonder. Mercilus led all of college football with 16 sacks and 9 forced fumbles so yea it is a great idea.

I guess his 9 sacks in 2010 mean nothing, nor should it be considered that he played his first two seasons as a linebacker. So, two productive college seasons and he has played the position we are drafting him for. Edge = Ingram.

 

[Duckjake]

I guess his 9 sacks in 2010 mean nothing, nor should it be considered that he played his first two seasons as a linebacker. So, two productive college seasons and he has played the position we are drafting him for. Edge = Ingram.

Don't overlook that Sam Acho also played LB at Texas early in his career.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't even think it's close. I'd take Ingram over DeCastro every day. I don't even think the Cards will look at drafting a guard until late in the draft and get a developmental type guy. Grimm just came out and said Snyder was the starting RG. Ingram is rated just as high, or very similarly, and plays an higher impact position that fills a need.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't even think it's close. I'd take Ingram over DeCastro every day. I don't even think the Cards will look at drafting a guard until late in the draft and get a developmental type guy. Grimm just came out and said Snyder was the starting RG. Ingram is rated just as high, or very similarly, and plays an higher impact position that fills a need.

You're right it isn't close. Ingram is only exceptional because it's a down year for pass rushers. Schofiield had better numbers in College. DeCastro is compared to Hutchinson; Ingram to ???.

 

[juza76]

why not the third option??? draft de castro will mean playing snyder at tackle..so the team will be in the first place for saks allowed
ingram too overrated..doesnt have a good first step..he is not a bull rusher and he is not quick to run around the tackle.
i m happy with kuelhy floyd wright hill or mercilus