Defensive assistant coach candidates dwindling for Suns

[PetryJr]

By the way, Elston Turner will be the "defensive coordinator":

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2011/07/11/20110711phoenix-suns-hire-elston-turner.html

 

[Mainstreet]

Its not popular to do that anywhere in this town.

Most Suns fans i have discussions with at work,in sports bars around town etc seem to give the entire team a pass for being piss poor defensively over the years.
I really dont understand that mentality...but it certainly explains one of the reasons why the organization continues to focus on exciting offensive basketball > Its what the vast majority of the fanbase accepts as "the norm" and its what they want to see.

I don't give the Suns a pass for not playing defense. I still remember when Raja had some fire in his veins and took Kobe to the floor. I just understand how Nash and Amare kept the Suns relevant in the NBA for a number of years. Defense was not their forte but finding finding equivalent players that can play both offense and defense are hard to find.

 

[Mainstreet]

By the way, Elston Turner will be the "defensive coordinator":

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2011/07/11/20110711phoenix-suns-hire-elston-turner.html

Good Post PetryJr.

Maybe you could start a new thread on this as you broke the news. I definitely believe it is thread worthy.

 

[mojorizen7]

Turner was favored all along for how well he would fit with the Suns on two fronts -- as a defensive coach on offensively driven teams

and with a personality that will not ruffle a coaching staff that already has Bill Cartwright, Dan Majerle, Igor Kokoskov and Noel Gillespie in place.​

Turner has been a NBA assistant for 14 years, the last 10 of which were under RickAdelman

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in Sacramento (six years) and Houston (four).

I do like his background though. I respect Adelman's work as a HC.​

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...ix-suns-hire-elston-turner.html#ixzz1RqXWRIWA​

 

[Griffin]

Gentry confirmed his selection of Elston Turner, a head coach finalist for Phoenix in 2008, as his new defensive assistant coach, a choice that became apparent last week with Jim Boylan re-signing with Milwaukee, Don Newman opting to stay in San Antonio and Pete Myers taking a job with Golden State.

No other candidate had been offered the "defensive coordinator" job, although talks with Boylan also had progressed. Turner was favored all along for how well he would fit with the Suns on two fronts -- as a defensive coach on offensively driven teams and with a personality that will not ruffle a coaching staff that already has Bill Cartwright, Dan Majerle, Igor Kokoskov and Noel Gillespie in place.

That would be contrary to the other reports stating other candidates were passing on the Suns. I wouldn't be surprised if Turner was actually the last choice, given that the other three candidates are no longer available.

The Rockets last year with Turner as assistant coach ranked 22nd in FG% allowed (Suns were 25th) and 23rd the year before that. Of course when Yao played and they had Artest they ranked 5th. Needless to say, it's the players that play defense, not coaches. But if you want to make it seem like you are trying to address an issue, it's a lot cheaper to hire a "defensive" assistant than to acquire good players. The Suns have already tried once with Porter.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do like his background though. I respect Adelman's work as a HC.​

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...ix-suns-hire-elston-turner.html#ixzz1RqXWRIWA​

It's like learning to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Yes, I was even taken aback by the wording.

 

[Errntknght]

Does anyone know anything significant about Elston Turner that might suggest he knows more about defense than the average assistant coach? I don't remember him being an outstanding defender when he played and his short bio's didn't mention making an all defensive team. Being an assistant to Adelman is not a real plus, IMO. He's nothing like Carlisle and Thibadeau, who were widely known to be good defensive coaches while they were still assistants.

Oh, well, its a start. Besides, how he appears on paper isn't everything... Iavaroni had very nice credentials as a big man coach but as far as I could ever see he didn't do squat with our big men.

 

[Covert Rain]

I guess your position is the Suns should have not signed Nash as a FA nor drafted Amare. I don't think so. I was unaware of your previous position on these two players. It sounds like you were never on their ship which is unfortunate, because these two players not only elevated the Suns from mediocrity but more likely, much, much worse.

I don't regret the Suns getting either player. I simply can't stand that the Suns didn't take defense seriously enough to put us over the top IMO. They were always worried about shooters or guys who could put it in the bucket. I always knew in terms of Nash defense was going to be a challenge.

What I meant above was simply that as much as I gave credit to both Nash and Amare's offensive games, I never gave either a pass when it came to the other end of the court. I don't regret having either one bit.What I regret is the Suns wasting an amazing chance while they were here through terrible moves and not enough emphasis with the other side of the ball.

 

[Gaddabout]

Ugh. Someone invoked Raja Bell's name. I loved his fire, but his defense was even more overrated than Majerle's. I sometimes think anytime we get a player who plays with intensity automatically gets a "defender" label whether it's justified or not.

The best face-up defenders we've had weren't always noted for it when they were here. Kidd was a fantastic face-up defender. Guys that simply made their money putting out effort and grabbing rebounds were Ty Corbin and Mark West; West just didn't have the footwork to move his feet. Grant Hill, in spite of a reputation otherwise, is the best face-up defender the Suns have had at any position in the Nash era. I always felt Finley should have played the 3 because he was so strong and wouldn't usually give up that first step like he did against quicker 2s, but he definitely was decent at the 2. I think Gortat is decent but he gets exposed the moment he has to step out and guard at the top of the key and he can disappear when he needs to be weakside help.

Another guy I sort of roll my eyes at is Larry Nance. I LOVED Nance, but he was a pretty mediocre defender at the 4 and aged in a hurry by the time he got to play the 3. He got a ton of weakside blocks, but that's not everyday face-up defense. Neither is the gutter-growling, crotch-grabbing, elbow-brushing antics of Ainge and Bell. Great perimeter defenders force guys to either take jump shots they don't want to take or drive them into a low-post defender. There have been very, very few of those types in Phoenix since I started following the team in 1975.

 

[Mulli]

Larry Nance blocked a shot from Dr. J from behind. He gets a pass based on that. He is nowhere near as overrated defensively as majerle or raja. See playoff games vs Jordan/Kobe.

 

[Gaddabout]

Larry Nance blocked a shot from Dr. J from behind. He gets a pass based on that. He is nowhere near as overrated defensively as majerle or raja. See playoff games vs Jordan/Kobe.

That's very true. But Nance always required a big center when he played the 4 or he was pretty helpless on his own because he wasn't very strong. Even today he's still an amazing athlete for a low-post athlete and was one of the best all-around forwards of his generation. I just reject the idea he was a superstar defender.

 

[Griffin]

Some interesting quotes from our new assistant coach:

Turner said Gortat can be a defensive and rebounding force and added that Nash is not so different from most point guards in that he needs help to stay in front of quick point guards.

"You can't single out Nash, because of his age, and say, 'Stay in front of the quickest guys in the league,' " Turner said. "(Backup point guard) Aaron Brooks will have trouble staying in front of most guys. The whole thing is based upon help. Some need it more than others.

"Steve has knowledge. He has vision. I can tell how he passes the ball that he can see plays before they happen, and a lot of that is defensive instincts. I'm expecting him to be a great team defender, plugging holes, seeing plays and helping. There's no doubt in my mind he can be a fantastic team defender and hold his own solo."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...110713phoenix-suns-elston-turner-defense.html

I can't say I disagree with Turner on his assessment, even if it's a bit overly optimistic. Most defenders cannot guard the top offensive players one-on-one. Help defense with always be key, but like he says, some need it more than others. That and switching are the areas where the team can improve without adding players, imo. It won't make them a great defensive team, but it still would be a vast improvement.

 

[Irish]

Sometimes it takes general focus. The Bulls weren't that good until the coaching change. The Mavs upgraded their defense a lot last season. It can be done.

The problem the Suns have had for so long is that the players don't really understand rotations. They end up doubling guys who shouldn"t be< leaving their man to help when no needed< defending gys outside of their shooting range< etc> The top defensive tems work together>

The Suns have had problems with rebounding for a lont time because they have not put thetime into developing rebounders>Their defense looks bad when they give up a lot of second chance points> It it will be interesting if Turner can make a dent.

 

[Covert Rain]

Some interesting quotes from our new assistant coach:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...110713phoenix-suns-elston-turner-defense.html

I can't say I disagree with Turner on his assessment, even if it's a bit overly optimistic. Most defenders cannot guard the top offensive players one-on-one. Help defense with always be key, but like he says, some need it more than others. That and switching are the areas where the team can improve without adding players, imo. It won't make them a great defensive team, but it still would be a vast improvement.

I do disagree and you are right this is overly optimistic.

"There's no doubt in my mind he can be a fantastic team defender and hold his own solo."

That is complete pie in the sky attitude and exactly what we don't need from a guy that is suppose to evaluate this team's defensive capabilities realistically. Nash has never held his own solo. You watch how fast this assessment evaporates when other guys continue to guard Nash's man and Steve is matched up on opposing SG instead of a PG as usual.

"You can't single out Nash, because of his age, and say, 'Stay in front of the quickest guys in the league"

You can't because of his age?? Not only you can but it's not the only reason you can single out Nash. The other reason you can single out Nash is because he has been one of the worst defending PGs for most of his career.

I am a bit disappointed in his statements. Seriously, I would like someone that is a little bit more frank and in this team's face about its defense. Someone who is honest enough to help this team make the changes it needs. I suspect much of this is more PR talk to show some optimism. My hope is behind closed doors his evaluation is much more realistic.