Devin Booker is the greatest player EVER in Suns history

[Yuma]

But you don't understand, his teammates now know he's going to add turnovers to their statline at the end of games that are all but over. Now they'll demand he be traded or at the least turn their backs to him on the court. His assists don't come from good playmaking either, he's bailed out by his teammates after burning the shot clock. I'm shocked they haven't given him a swirly yet. Now I'm not saying they should but I'm also not saying it would be wrong if they did.

IDK, Tyus was the recipient of a lot of his assists. I don't think he's mad at all.

 

[Phrazbit]

But you don't understand, his teammates now know he's going to add turnovers to their statline at the end of games that are all but over. Now they'll demand he be traded or at the least turn their backs to him on the court. His assists don't come from good playmaking either, he's bailed out by his teammates after burning the shot clock. I'm shocked they haven't given him a swirly yet. Now I'm not saying they should but I'm also not saying it would be wrong if they did.

Makes me recall when that guy said Booker was selfish for not attempting long 3s and the end of quarters, only to discover Booker actually attempts more than almost anyone.

If he knew that truth first I am sure he’d have blasted Booker for taking too many.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Just to be fair, he lead the team in assists. I took his pass to Richards as a nod to his good game. I think Richards took it like that because they hugged right as the time expired, and there were smiles all around. In general, all the guys on the team seemed really impressed with Richards play. Even Damion Lee pranked Richards on the after show. It seemed like all the players were really happy for him and also feeling the pain of his missing the 20th rebound.

it's not a big deal by itself, but things like that add up, so yes...

* his hesitance to chuck full court shots at the end of quarters, and increased shot attempts when the Suns are comfortably ahead and he might soon sit (instead of letting the role players get more opportunity).

* and him still playing point guard at the end of games when that's exactly what we got a competent one for -- because we're the worst closer of games in the league with him calling the shots

* and him getting hot-headed and playing sloppy instead of better when under pressure or rattled.
-- including sloppy fouls or techs. Both Paul George and Luka Doncic made us pay a price for his stupid diss's.

to be fair. He doesn't get as hot-headed now. Maybe he's on some mood meds because he seems less interested in general. And he does try to get teammates involved earlier in games. But even that should be more balanced. He either focuses on one thing or the other instead of both scoring and assisting in a more organic way throughout.

same thing with defense. He's one of the worst on the team, statistically (and visually). I can believe that Steve Kur liked his Olympic defense. Because it was his assigned job focus. Again, mental focus is perhaps his weakness. It's probably why his shooting percentage dives the more crunchier the end of the game gets. The true superstars get better.

yes, i'm "that guy"
you can bury your head in the sand and say i see these thing because i'm a "booker hater"
or you can consider that i'm a Booker hater BECAUSE i've seen these flaws for a decade and, after 50+ years it's time to have a shot at a title!

i still root for all of Booker's shots to go on because i'm a Suns fan
but i have no patience for the excuse-makers, cherry pickers, rose-colored glasses wearers, or announcers and radio hosts that continue to work "the product" which is Booker as the face of the Suns

Booker represents team failure -- for as long as he's under a super-max contract here

and Hoop, if your intention is to bully and suppress posts like this, i suggest you stick with dropping in a little emojee instead of actual words. You don't make sense when you try to obscure reality. It may have worked a little better years ago, when your hero's flaws weren't as obvious to even the majority on this forum -- so obvious that it's highly unlikely our super-max man isn't even considered an All Star. (not even by the organization's best analyst, Eddie Johnson)

 

[Hoop Head]

IDK, Tyus was the recipient of a lot of his assists. I don't think he's mad at all.

I mentioned that in another thread. Book's shot wasn't falling so he seemed to switch spots with Tyus in the offense last game with good results. Teams obviously won't pay Tyus the same level of attention they do Booker so he was left open frequently and made Washington pay. That's how our offense should be ran. 5 roles that guys alternate playing. I will expand on that in the other thread so not to derail this further.

1ouTinentDan hates Booker and nitpicks his game to no end. I could guess why but it doesn't change the fact he's hyper fixated on telling anyone who will listen that Booker is essentially the basketball antichrist. He won't engage once you prove his reasoning is based on cherry picking specific stats and ignoring others that prove his points don't add up, like Phrazbit pointed out. If you want to engage though, go for it but don't be surprised if it's not a rational.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Nobody else going to mention that shot-clock turnovers are not attributed to a single individual but are a team TO stat? Check the video box score on Richards, that TO does not appear https://www.nba.com/game/was-vs-phx-0022400645/box-score#box-score

 

[Hoop Head]

Nobody else going to mention that shot-clock turnovers are not attributed to a single individual but are a team TO stat? Check the video box score on Richards, that TO does not appear https://www.nba.com/game/was-vs-phx-0022400645/box-score#box-score

I actually didn't know that. Thanks for the education there. I'm sure that won't matter to a certain someone though. Stats don't matter when there's a narrative to create and push as gospel.

 

[1tinsoldier]

if Booker knew that, why didn't he just hang on to the ball? And if it was a joke, why is it funny if it didn't matter??

here's a stat that matters.
in last 2 minutes of close games, Booker is shooting 17.6%, Durant is shooting 41.2%

but let's keep the guy with one of the biggest salary commitments in the league because we can have his clutch shooting for more years. I guess if you really enjoy watching him play, regardless of wins or losses and the ability to acquire better talent, all the hours watching will be worth it for you. Buy his jersey in every logo style. You can wear it while you watch other teams in the playoffs.

 

[Phrazbit]

if Booker knew that, why didn't he just hang on to the ball? And if it was a joke, why is it funny if it didn't matter??

here's a stat that matters.
in last 2 minutes of close games, Booker is shooting 17.6%, Durant is shooting 41.2%

but let's keep the guy with one of the biggest salary commitments in the league because we can have his clutch shooting for more years. I guess if you really enjoy watching him play, regardless of wins or losses and the ability to acquire better talent, all the hours watching will be worth it for you. Buy his jersey in every logo style. You can wear it while you watch other teams in the playoffs.

Tonight must have had you seething.

Also, if you think Durant would stay if we traded Booker then you are totally disconnected from reality. The only reason Durant is here is because of Devin Booker.

Regrettably so, because trading for Durant is the biggest mistake in franchise history.

 

[Hoop Head]

Tonight must have had you seething.

Also, if you think Durant would stay if we traded Booker then you are totally disconnected from reality. The only reason Durant is here is because of Devin Booker.

Regrettably so, because trading for Durant is the biggest mistake in franchise history.

Dont worry, he'll find a stat that isn't recorded or doesn't exist to call out Booker.

He leans on a small sample size that ignores the larger picture. Stats and analytics need context, which he lacks. There are things that can be honed in on to paint a picture but if you dive too deep then you're blind to the outside world.

Everyone who watches the games knows why the Suns fan apart late, it turns into the KD iso show. Everyone else is put in spectator mode as bail out options. Booker is shooting bad but so is everyone else on the team because again, KD iso's the clock away and if he can't get a look he throws a lazy pass to someone who has to readjust and hoist. There are stats that back this up to an extent, like last years. When the Suns were more free flowing offensively and the team took turns going ISO, Booker shot 55% in clutch time. Clutch beinf defined as when we were tied or trailing by 5 or fewer points with less than 5 minutes to go. He shot 15-27 overall. Now looking at KD, he went 18-54, just 33% but it's important to note the contrast in quantity. Beal was the best of our mid 3, shooting 8-13. Booker and Beal didn't attempt as many combined shots as Durant did, which those who watched knew, yet both were considerably more efficient.

I don't like relying on stats to prove a point since watching the games regularly makes things clear that the box score can't capture. However this claim Booker is anti-clutch doesn't make sense.

I can't get a link from NBA.com, their short link creator has been loading for minutes now. I took a screenshot that shows how I pulled the stats so if anyone questions the authenticity of my screenshot, feel free to pull the stats yourself.

I wish I could find a measure to back up what I see regularly at end of games with KD dribbling the air out of the ball but almost every game thread has someone mentioning KD going ISO mode to end games. I'd be curious to see who is control of the ball and by what percentage overall to close games though.

 

[Phrazbit]

I wish I could find a measure to back up what I see regularly at end of games with KD dribbling the air out of the ball but almost every game thread has someone mentioning KD going ISO mode to end games. I'd be curious to see who is control of the ball and by what percentage overall to close games though.

Absolutely.

Over and over, when we go to KD it is a long drawn out ISO play, resulting in an extremely difficult contested 2 point shot (or a turnover), which admittedly only a few players could make... him among them, unfortunately it isn't at a rate that actually matters in a league that emphasizes fast play, 3 point shots and shots at the rim.

 

[CardNots]

Regrettably so, because trading for Durant is the biggest mistake in franchise history.

The biggest mistake was calling heads for the coin flip call for Lewis Alcindor.

The trading of Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, and Steve Nash were up there as well. I would include selecting Ayton among the biggest mistakes.

Keep in mind the Durant trade hasn’t played out yet to understand the final result of his trade but the other mistakes I listed are in the history books.

 

[Phrazbit]

The biggest mistake was calling heads for the coin flip call for Lewis Alcindor.

The trading of Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr, and Steve Nash were up there as well. I would include selecting Ayton among the biggest mistakes.

Keep in mind the Durant trade hasn’t played out yet to understand the final result of his trade but the other mistakes I listed are in the history books.

Hmm... the coin flip was a coin flip. That is chance, while these other moves should have come with a level of risk/reward.

As for the trades you mentioned... Hornacek got us Barkley, seems like a win, Nash brought us Marion and by the time Nash came back he was really really good... Kerr isn't even worth getting into, a 2nd round pick who never played for us and wasn't a factor until he was almost a decade into his career.

Ayton... that was a mistake, but the Kings, Hawks and Grizzlies also screwed up... that was hardly a "YOU SHOULDN'T DO THIS" moment.

The Durant trade IMO, will dwarf them all, by massive margins. It's already a disaster and we've hardly even begun to feel the ramifications.

 

[CardNots]

Hmm... the coin flip was a coin flip. That is chance, while these other moves should have come with a level of risk/reward.

As for the trades you mentioned... Hornacek got us Barkley, seems like a win, Nash brought us Marion and by the time Nash came back he was really really good... Kerr isn't even worth getting into, a 2nd round pick who never played for us and wasn't a factor until he was almost a decade into his career.

Ayton... that was a mistake, but the Kings, Hawks and Grizzlies also screwed up... that was hardly a "YOU SHOULDN'T DO THIS" moment.

The Durant trade IMO, will dwarf them all, by massive margins. It's already a disaster and we've hardly even begun to feel the ramifications.

You bring up some good points but calling heads is a choice. You might be right on the Durant trade but its too early to solidify your assessment…

 

[Hoop Head]

You bring up some good points but calling heads is a choice. You might be right on the Durant trade but its too early to solidify your assessment…

I'd argue the coin flip was bad luck vs bad decision. May have worked, may not. There's a real chance Kareem doesn't stay in Phoenix long enough for success anyways. He wanted to be in DC, NY, or LA even though he won a championship in Milwaukee but small markets weren't financially capable of keeping everyone happy and cultural he wanted to be more comfortable in the city he played for. There's a million rabbit holes to explore in that regard.

Point being, the further we get the more variables that can be introduced. At the moment, no one could see the future. They had a lot at stake but nothing to lose by making the call on the flip they did. All of the other deals include actual losses, be it Hornacek, Nash, even Marion for Shaq. The coin flip was a free play of sorts.

Bad draft picks themselves are a little different than bad trades. There is loss involved if the player you hitched your wagon to doesn't meet exceptions, like Ayton. No one says it was a mistake when the ping pong balls didn't work in our favor when we sucked throughout the 2010's. Some things are completely out of our hands, like a coin flip or lotto balls.

 

[Covert Rain]

Absolutely.

Over and over, when we go to KD it is a long drawn out ISO play, resulting in an extremely difficult contested 2 point shot (or a turnover), which admittedly only a few players could make... him among them, unfortunately it isn't at a rate that actually matters in a league that emphasizes fast play, 3 point shots and shots at the rim.

Meh. I think the Beal trade is worse and if Ishbia is who we think he is and doesn't let the team bottom out? You can't call it the worst. Too early for that assessment.

 

[1tinsoldier]

tonight i WAS absolutely seething. And i did plan on seething here even before i read the new posts by the last, loudest fan-boys here blaming Durant for doing the same thing Booker does. And pulling up last year's stats instead of this year's.

you're damn right stats don't tell the story. -- results do. And amazingly, despite point-Book being a total disaster last season that ended with us barely making the playoffs, being swept in the first round, being one of the worst closing teams in history, and acquiring a real point guard, Booker's still taking over to end the 4th -- and yes, we're the worst closers again, though beside for 2 games, the last month this has been the softest schedule in memory.

you better talk about the last 5 minutes of games, because the crunchier the clock is, and the more Booker ball takes over, the worse we get.

HOW MANY TIMES THIS SEASON HAVE WE SEEN 13 POINTS DISAPPEAR (even to crappy teams) in the last minutes of games???
Last night the Clips went on a 16 to 4 run under Booker Ball in the last couple of minutes.

yes, unfortunately, Durant is an iso player too, but at least he's better at it. Historically better -- as in, one of the 10 best in NBA history, and an All-Star starter, while Booker will probably be watching the game on his 100 inch TV.

again, damn right, the stats don't tell the story. If they did Russell Westbrook, with his points and assists, would have championship rings on each finger. Instead he's working on his 5th team in as many years!!!

and like Westbrook, playing alongside the MOST VALUABLE, IMPACT PLAYER in the league, JOKIC, or maybe THE GREEK FREAK with a third piece, is the only way Booker's getting near a ring. Good luck making that happen here under Book's super-max salary.

but, there's still some pleasure to be had for fanboys here. The Suns announcers and Suns radio are still working the product (Devin Booker) extra hard these days to keep you blindly and blissfully tuning in.

 

[BirdGangThing]

someone tell the genius we're 8-2

 

[1tinsoldier]

seriously. Who here doesn't see what's been happening for 2 years at the end of games with point-Booker, Booker-ball? And yes, Durant-ball -- but with better, but still unacceptable results. The coach and his assistants can't be that stupid.

It's, understandably, hard to change Durant who is a legend based on his propensity to feel his defender out then elevate over them at will. (His problem now is that his handles aren't as good and double teams disrupt his move).

but what's the excuse for a coach still going with point-Book. I can only assume it's Book's ego. And, in Bud's case, he recently got fired from a championship team for not pleasing his superstar.

don't be intimidated by the bully-boy, fan-boys. Someone rational tell me why this insanity has to continue...

 

[BirdGangThing]

dum dum want gum gum

 

[1tinsoldier]

someone tell the genius we're 8-2

someone tell the "cultist" we're hovering around 500 after the easiest part of the schedule the past 10 games, we're losing comfortable leads in the final minutes, we're historically bad at closing out games for the past 2 years, despite have the league's highest salary -- 3 super-max players who were all healthy and swept after barely making the playoffs and may not make it this season

we finally have a real point guard, a real center, the best 3pt shooter in the game and promising rookies. I'd be really surprised if we don't finish the season strong.

and we could absolutely finish MUCH stronger if Bud applied sound, fundamental basketball principles to prioritize team ball over egos. Beal coming off the bench is a step in the right direction.

 

[Ronin]

Name calling going on this thread.
Putting this thread on ice for 24 hours.

 

[1tinsoldier]

As an avid NBA spectator for 50 years, i'd like to, calmly, try to explain a few things to the young readers in attendance.

The NBA is a league of stars with egos. It takes an ego to dedicate yourself to a glorious profession only an elite few will qualify for.

Since they're all skilled athletes, the game score often depends on their level of intensity -- focus & effort (rebounds, loose balls, defense, etc..) . When they're up, they relax a little and the opponent kicks their intensity up.

So, the guy who's giving you results during the first 3 quarters of a game is not necessarily a difference maker. They may take more shots, but even at upwards of 45% shooting, balanced team ball can produce the same results -- usually better.

Nay, the difference makers -- the winners -- are the guys who produce in the last part of the game when both defenses are at their most intense.

For some, size and strength is their winning attribute -- Nokic, The Greek Freak, Embiid, (Sun) Barkley, etc. For some their speed and dexterity -- Morant, D.Fox, (Sun) Kevin Johnson, etc.. Better yet are the ones who do it with their bb iq -- (Suns) Nash-CP3-Kidd, Magic, etc., and their skill + will, Jordan.

The worst team position, is for their franchise player to not be a closer -- especially when competing under playoff intensity. To hitch your wagon to a guy that fills the stat sheet but not the win column. The poster boy for that is Russel Westbrook. In another 5 years when he's retired, i suspect Devin Booker's poster could take his place.

Both are bad decision makers in the most critical moments. But Westbrook teams (6?) have had the good sense to move on. Booker gets the cover of the most popular NBA video game and endless local hype because of his marketability. Hell, his boyish good looks even worked on the hottest super-model for a year.

Unfortunately, he priced himself out of the market for any team serious about a championship. He probably needs two players more impactful than him to win a ring. Steve Kerr got it right on team USA. He started him as a role player with 4 other true Alpha Male players.

His defense on that team was useful because that was his assignment and focus. On the Suns, he's statistically one of the weakest on the team. And his impulse to take over the point and take the winning shot is a disaster. Last year he hit a game winner. But the oft-replayed fanfare had to go back to the "Bubble" to connect him to another game-winning shot.

Booker doesn't have the size, length, strength or smarts in the end. The curse for us, is that he does have the will, but can't back it up. And now, his legs aren't as young and he doesn't have the lift to get off his shot against a double team or the agility to avoid a turnover.

He's got the ego and the salary. And for that reason, we will never compete for a championship with him. If he played an assigned role, I'd be happy to keep him. But that will never happen considering his home-grown fandom assisted by the Suns marketing machine.

 

[Phrazbit]

As an avid NBA spectator for 50 years, i'd like to, calmly, try to explain a few things to the young readers in attendance.

The NBA is a league of stars with egos. It takes an ego to dedicate yourself to a glorious profession only an elite few will qualify for.

Since they're all skilled athletes, the game score often depends on their level of intensity -- focus & effort (rebounds, loose balls, defense, etc..) . When they're up, they relax a little and the opponent kicks their intensity up.

So, the guy who's giving you results during the first 3 quarters of a game is not necessarily a difference maker. They may take more shots, but even at upwards of 45% shooting, balanced team ball can produce the same results -- usually better.

Nay, the difference makers -- the winners -- are the guys who produce in the last part of the game when both defenses are at their most intense.

For some, size and strength is their winning attribute -- Nokic, The Greek Freak, Embiid, (Sun) Barkley, etc. For some their speed and dexterity -- Morant, D.Fox, (Sun) Kevin Johnson, etc.. Better yet are the ones who do it with their bb iq -- (Suns) Nash-CP3-Kidd, Magic, etc., and their skill + will, Jordan.

The worst team position, is for their franchise player to not be a closer -- especially when competing under playoff intensity. To hitch your wagon to a guy that fills the stat sheet but not the win column. The poster boy for that is Russel Westbrook. In another 5 years when he's retired, i suspect Devin Booker's poster could take his place.

Both are bad decision makers in the most critical moments. But Westbrook teams (6?) have had the good sense to move on. Booker gets the cover of the most popular NBA video game and endless local hype because of his marketability. Hell, his boyish good looks even worked on the hottest super-model for a year.

Unfortunately, he priced himself out of the market for any team serious about a championship. He probably needs two players more impactful than him to win a ring. Steve Kerr got it right on team USA. He started him as a role player with 4 other true Alpha Male players.

His defense on that team was useful because that was his assignment and focus. On the Suns, he's statistically one of the weakest on the team. And his impulse to take over the point and take the winning shot is a disaster. Last year he hit a game winner. But the oft-replayed fanfare had to go back to the "Bubble" to connect him to another game-winning shot.

Booker doesn't have the size, length, strength or smarts in the end. The curse for us, is that he does have the will, but can't back it up. And now, his legs aren't as young and he doesn't have the lift to get off his shot against a double team or the agility to avoid a turnover.

He's got the ego and the salary. And for that reason, we will never compete for a championship with him. If he played an assigned role, I'd be happy to keep him. But that will never happen considering his home-grown fandom assisted by the Suns marketing machine.

Prior to trading for Durant the suns had spent 2 years as the best clutch team in the league.

Another post that spits into the face of reality.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I would like to remind people that as Booker gets closer to being the franchise all time scorer, people will be more nitpicky and divisive.

The ignore function is a wonderful solution to this.

 

[Covert Rain]

Prior to trading for Durant the suns had spent 2 years as the best clutch team in the league.

Another post that spits into the face of reality.

Chris Paul? Clutch shooting has gone up everywhere he went career wise no?