Did a potential deal for Hopkins unravel?

[kerouac9]

Kind of interesting that Dhop had his lowest average yards per catch of his career last year after coming back from suspension.

Part of that was poor QB play, but everybody here knows that PP2 dropped off a little too after he was busted for PEDs.

Sure, it's a little sour grapes/jilted suitor, but is it really that surprising teams aren't falling all over each other to sign him, or that we could get a deal done? He's kind of a risk.

It was the same YPC (11.2) he had the season before we traded for him.

 

[Stout]

Oh knoes! He missed out on a fifth rounder!

Yep. More minimizing of our rookie GM making mistakes. Just like the tampering.

 

[Stout]

LOL Ok chief.

We do know what is actually being reported and the other parts of an offer of a second have never been reported by anyone. Even before the draft there were reports of teams offering only day three picks.

Well, that would just make Monti's mistakes even worse. If he was holding out for a second rounder plus--which have been in those reports you cite--what does that say about our GM's distance from reality in the situation?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It was the same YPC (11.2) he had the season before we traded for him.

Correct, he tied his career low in 2019. Then posted AYPC stats of 12.2 and 13.6 in 2020 and 2021 respectively.

Definitely not saying the AYPC is a smoking gun K9, only that it might be a little concerning in the context of the PED suspension. I'm also stipulating that I'm probably in "we didn't want him anyway" mode.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yep. More minimizing of our rookie GM making mistakes. Just like the tampering.

He has still done more good for this team than not though.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He has still done more good for this team than not though.

That completely depends on how much you believe in the get rid of basically all your good players and hope Monti is a genius in roster construction.

 

[CardNots]

I know one thing we didn’t get, the proof he wasn’t juicing

hey dHop, i don’t even wish you well…

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That completely depends on how much you believe in the get rid of basically all your good players and hope Monti is a genius in roster construction.

All? He has gone on the record stating that he didn't want to get rid of Budda.

 

[Stout]

He has still done more good for this team than not though.

I am very much on the fence on that. Some real blunders, including impact on the draft.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am very much on the fence on that. Some real blunders, including impact on the draft.

Wow, interesting.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

All? He has gone on the record stating that he didn't want to get rid of Budda.

Which is why I said "basically all".

 

[Stout]

Wow, interesting.

He cost us draft positioning with his tampering. In his initial months in charge, he stood pat in FA long term, tampered and had to self report, and cut one of the better receivers in the league for no compensation, as well as lost our two main home grown FAs. Not good things, IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

He has still done more good for this team than not though.

The team would be better now had he exercised the third overall pick.

The team is unlikely to be better in the standings or record in 2023 than they were in 2022.

Are you Michael Bidwill? That's the only reasonable explanation for thinking that his cleaning up the balance sheet so the Cards are probably paying out 70% less than their cap number this season is doing good.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The team would be better now had he exercised the third overall pick.

I said good for the team, which doesn't necessarily mean right now. It also includes the future.

The team is unlikely to be better in the standings or record in 2023 than they were in 2022.

And? I wasn't arguing that. This team needs/needed a major overhaul that one offseason couldn't fix, especially with your starting QB likely starting the season on IR. Sometimes you have to pull the bare thread in order to tailor your suit.

Are you Michael Bidwill? That's the only reasonable explanation for thinking that his cleaning up the balance sheet so the Cards are probably paying out 70% less than their cap number this season is doing good.

Are you intentionally obtuse? You are normally good at bringing facts and good opinions into discussions without resorting to this.

 

[kerouac9]

I said good for the team, which doesn't necessarily mean right now. It also includes the future.

And? I wasn't arguing that. This team needs/needed a major overhaul that one offseason couldn't fix, especially with your starting QB likely starting the season on IR.

Are you intentionally obtuse? You are normally good at bringing facts and good opinions into discussions without resorting to this.

This is an opinion that isn't really supported by facts and evidence. It's asserted over and over and over again, and when asked to substantiate it, people just offer vibes that they're mad about the past 18 months of Cardinals football.

We're not set to be better on the cap in 2024 than we were last season. Maybe this coaching staff is good, but it's probably average or worse. We're installing a culture where you decide it's okay to waste a year not competing.

Makes for good headlines and coverage among Football Knowers, but, man, what have we accomplished this year?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Well, that would just make Monti's mistakes even worse. If he was holding out for a second rounder plus--which have been in those reports you cite--what does that say about our GM's distance from reality in the situation?

You don't know what a player is worth until you know.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is an opinion that isn't really supported by facts and evidence. It's asserted over and over and over again, and when asked to substantiate it, people just offer vibes that they're mad about the past 18 months of Cardinals football.

You are trying to tell me that this team could have been a playoff contender this year? Seriously?

 

[kerouac9]

You are trying to tell me that this team could have been a playoff contender this year? Seriously?

Could this team been re-fit to win between seven and eleven games in 2023? Absolutely.

Seattle made the playoffs last season. The Giants made the playoffs last season. The Commies were in playoff contention until December. The Pittsburgh Steelers had a winning record last season.

Oftentimes losing 12 games or more is a choice. It's baffling that we're making that choice with a franchise QB on the roster.

Again, make a positive case for what is being "fixed" this year. Changing the subject is not answering the question of why "this team needs/needed a major overhaul that one offseason couldn't fix."

Michael Bidwill said when he fired Kliff that "this team isn't as broken as everyone seems to think." Apparently his third-choice GM disagreed with him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Could this team been re-fit to win between seven and eleven games in 2023? Absolutely.

Seattle made the playoffs last season. The Giants made the playoffs last season. The Commies were in playoff contention until December. The Pittsburgh Steelers had a winning record last season.

Oftentimes losing 12 games or more is a choice. It's baffling that we're making that choice with a franchise QB on the roster.

11 games, next year. 11-6, with this roster and a hurt QB. I don't think we are working with the same data set here.

Again, make a positive case for what is being "fixed" this year. Changing the subject is not answering the question of why "this team needs/needed a major overhaul that one offseason couldn't fix."

Michael Bidwill said when he fired Kliff that "this team isn't as broken as everyone seems to think." Apparently his third-choice GM disagreed with him.

I didn't change the subject at all. The subject and the discussion was about how Monti is shaping the team and performing and I answered that directly. You might not have liked or agreed with what I said, but I didn't change the subject.

 

[kerouac9]

11 games, next year. 11-6, with this roster and a hurt QB. I don't think we are working with the same data set here.

Not THIS roster. This roster is probably engineered to win five games or fewer.

But taking the roster we had on March 14 and making free agency and draft moves with an eye to maximize competitiveness while optimizing for a younger roster? Absolutely, you could build a team with a ceiling of 11 wins.

Minnesota won 13 games with a negative points differential. A lot can happen in the NFL if you actually try to compete.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not THIS roster. This roster is probably engineered to win five games or fewer.

But taking the roster we had on March 14 and making free agency and draft moves with an eye to maximize competitiveness while optimizing for a younger roster? Absolutely, you could build a team with a ceiling of 11 wins.

Minnesota won 13 games with a negative points differential. A lot can happen in the NFL if you actually try to compete.

I think you either forgot how bad Kyler was playing before he got hurt, or expect him to come back early next year and play completely different. These are the only two possibilities I can think of.

 

[football karma]

in the get rid of basically all your good players

this feels like hyperbole

 

[ASUCHRIS]

this feels like hyperbole

We lost Watt/Hopkins/Murphy/Allen and kind of still have Budda? Seems bad.

 

[kerouac9]

I think you either forgot how bad Kyler was playing before he got hurt, or expect him to come back early next year and play completely different. These are the only two possibilities I can think of.

Dude. Seattle won nine games and made the playoffs with Geno Smith as their starter. Pittsburgh won 9 games with Kenny Pickett and Mitchell Trubisky combining for 12 TDs and 14 INTs (!!!!!). Taylor Heinicke won five games for Washington. Zach Wilson had a winning record as the New York Jets starter.

You don't have to get All-Pro Level play at Quarterback to win in the NFL. You're choosing not to see that losing like the Cards have decided to do is a choice.

 

[CardNots]

Dude. Seattle won nine games and made the playoffs with Geno Smith as their starter. Pittsburgh won 9 games with Kenny Pickett and Mitchell Trubisky combining for 12 TDs and 14 INTs (!!!!!). Taylor Heinicke won five games for Washington. Zach Wilson had a winning record as the New York Jets starter.

You don't have to get All-Pro Level play at Quarterback to win in the NFL. You're choosing not to see that losing like the Cards have decided to do is a choice.

The season hasn’t begun yet, I refuse to give up on hope until at least half time of the season opener