"Didn't practice D at all past 3 years"

[95pro]

Anyone remember Amare's block of a Duncan dunk attempt at the end of a playoff game a couple years back? Amare is intangible. Why do you think he and Nash are All Stars??

I second that ban suggestion!!

Do you remember that the Suns lost that series 4-1? One spectacular play doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

man, sad memories. i was there for all the home playoff games that year.

 

[shazaam6]

I try to be objective but Amare was called for B.S. fouls and given technicals for little things. Made me sick. I thought they were teaching him some sort of lesson but he wasn't a fighter, didn't laugh at the refs like Duncan did. If some point guard ran into him it was a foul on Amare. Hope Porter can change his reputation as a defender.

 

[nowagimp]

I try to be objective but Amare was called for B.S. fouls and given technicals for little things. Made me sick. I thought they were teaching him some sort of lesson but he wasn't a fighter, didn't laugh at the refs like Duncan did. If some point guard ran into him it was a foul on Amare. Hope Porter can change his reputation as a defender.

Its true that amare has been dealt with heavy handedly by the refs. But then he adds to it with his stupid frustration fouls. Like when he thinks hes been fouled and it isnt called so he obviously fouls a guy at the other end. This is STUPID behavior as it makes his foul problems even worse. Part of being a good defender is being vigilant and smart. Amare lacks vigilance, no comment on the smarts. He has the physical tools, but if he doesnt learn to be vigilant, he will just slide as a player. Great players learn to adapt and strengthen their weaknesses, amare has a lot of work to do. Blaming it on DA is just bleep. Ivaroni was on amare for 4 years and ivaroni knows big man defense, its why he was an NBA player. the loss of ivaroni was bad, but that was only one year without a big man coach. Amare still plays defense like a 2nd year player. It could be that amare wasnt ready to be physical after the injury yet and that this year he will come out and bang. Hopefully he will be sighted using the low stance on defense more, most any high school player knows a low stance can allow you to hold position down low better. Watching guys like oberto push amare around like a rag doll under the boards has become irritating.

 

[leclerc]

All good points gimp. It's time Amare got better on man to man defense. Bend your knees and keep your temper already!

 

[Irish]

Knowing what to do is not the same as being able to do something physically. Amare was not physically able to deal with big low post threats and constantly got into trouble trying. He also was targeted by opponents who would send drivers at him repeatedly in hopes of getting him into foul trouble. Obviously Amare has a long way to go on defense, but at least they can start using him on the weak side and stop pretending he's a center.

Where I expect to see Amare improve the most (beyond just greater smphaisis on defense) is on rebounding. Amare was never very good at blocking out and now he do what he's best at - flying to the ball. Amare has always been a good weakside shot blocker, but he's not tall enough to be effective straight up.

Where I'm most concerned with Amare is his rotations - more even than his footwork. He doesn't take many charges and is slow at his shifts. IMHO, that should be Cartright's priority.

As for losing his temper, that will have to stop or his minutes will drop.

 

[mojorizen7]

Good post but......

but he's not tall enough to be effective straight up.

Not true.

As for losing his temper, that will have to stop or his minutes will drop.

Disagree.

 

[Irish]

A straight up shot blocker does it without jumping. Amare gets into a lot of trouble dealing with guys coming right at him because he has to jump to block shots, but opponents can simply jump into him to draw a foul.

An ideal straight on shot blcoker can just set his feel but effect shots just by reaching for them. Ideally, the straight on shot blocker has quick feet to get into position and lots of length. Attack him and charges are called, but try to shoot over him and the shot has to be altered to get through. This is why the Suns drafted Lopez because his stranding reach is roughly 9'5".

 

[mojorizen7]

A few of my not-so-favorite HC's that never won anything with their up-tempo/defenseless/gimmickry/ego-maniacal/crowd pleasing styles. I thought they belonged in this thread.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Granted....not all of these HC's were stubborn ego driven fool's....there were an awful lot of points scored from these guys teams......but they'd certainly have alot of stories about how they could never win the big games.

 

[HooverDam]

^Um, Mike Martz has a Super Bowl ring, Mike D'Antoni won championships in Europe and was perhaps a few injuries away in the NBA from doing the same, Don Nelson is a Hall of Famer, and June Jones did a good of job as possible at a school like Hawai'i.

But lets not let facts get in the way....

 

[mojorizen7]

^Um, Mike Martz has a Super Bowl ring, Mike D'Antoni won championships in Europe and was perhaps a few injuries away in the NBA from doing the same, Don Nelson is a Hall of Famer, and June Jones did a good of job as possible at a school like Hawai'i.

But lets not let facts get in the way....

Martz won a ring as an OC. Speaking of getting your facts straight.

Europe?

Nellie won what? (crickets chirping)

Jones....run & shoot er...chuck n duck in Atlanta.

 

[Irish]

It is one thing to say you can't win it all without a top ten defense, at least since Bad Boy Pistons proved the value of fouling. (Showtime Lakers did not have a particularly good defense). Stats of different eras reflect different rules such as the change in the illegal defense rules, but there is no doubt that the Suns defense was not good enough in recent years.

But the claim that up-tempo won't work is more a reflection of coaching fashions than anything else. Most up tempo teams go up tempo because they CANNOT score in a slower paced game. They lose in the playoffs because it is too easy to slow the game down.

The reason a team goes up tempo is that it is easier to score if you shoot before the defense is set. The Suns shot over 50% last season including 39.3% for three; but a fair amount of that came from having inside threats. The Warriors didn't and their shooting was only 45.9%.

 

[nowagimp]

^Um, Mike Martz has a Super Bowl ring, Mike D'Antoni won championships in Europe and was perhaps a few injuries away in the NBA from doing the same, Don Nelson is a Hall of Famer, and June Jones did a good of job as possible at a school like Hawai'i.

But lets not let facts get in the way....

Yeah, the casual fan doesnt even understand true excellence in coaching. Replace paul mokeski with tim duncan or david robinson and Nelson has multiple championships. take Duncan away and POPs has nothing at all.

 

[Cheesewater]

Martz won a ring as an OC. Speaking of getting your facts straight.

Europe?

Nellie won what? (crickets chirping)

Jones....run & shoot er...chuck n duck in Atlanta.

Without Martz the Rams don't even sniff the Super Bowl that year.

 

[nowagimp]

Without Martz the Rams don't even sniff the Super Bowl that year.

Yep and the Bears with the 46 defense dont sniff the Bowl without Buddy Ryan either. The rams were a dominant offensive team and the bears were a dominant dfrensive team. The respective coordinators were the ones who made it happen. Being from Phila, I knew Dick Vermeil(rams head coach for the superbowl champs), a great man, but a terrible offensive strategy guy, just terrible.

 

[Irish]

The NBA really is a players game. Did Doc Rivers all of a sudden become really smart? I'd suggest adding two All Stars made a big difference. And Pat Riley did not become an idiot just because his two best guys got hurt.

Where coaches can have an impact is to fit the offense to the talent and encourage everyone to play hard on defense. I'm hoping Porter can make some defensive adjustments, but effort is a major factor.

But this is not football. Basketball starts 5 guys, not 22 plus special teams and supersubs. There is just a lot more variables in football.. I would suggest there is no one in football with the impact of a Kobe, Garnett, or Tuncan. In basketball, the players are what matters in a way no other sport provides.

 

[mojorizen7]

Without Martz the Rams don't even sniff the Super Bowl that year.

Disagree. There were a couple of fairly notable new faces on offense that year.
Marshall Faulk,Torry Holt, and some guy named Kurt Warner who's still putting up good numbers. Vermeil loosened the reigns on insanely long and grueling practices as well as letting his coaches coach.
Also,the RAMS led the NFL in rushing defense (74.3 ypg)and sacks(57) that year. They also sent 2 guys on defense to the pro bowl
(T. Lyght/Kevin Carter).
Point being that Vermeil was a complete HC. The NFC title game & the SB was won because of Martz' offense and the very good defense.
Martz' subsequent teams were in position to win titles because of Martz' offense... but didn't. Why? Because turning the ball over with regularity was part of the system as well as poor clock mgmt,poor drafts, etc.
Martz was an excellent OC, but that's not the point Cheese. To claim that they don't "sniff" the SB that year is IMO not true.
If Martz was the lone X factor then surely he'd have won something in the 9 yrs since right.......?

 

[Cheesewater]

Disagree. There were a couple of fairly notable new faces on offense that year.
Marshall Faulk,Torry Holt, and some guy named Kurt Warner who's still putting up good numbers. Vermeil loosened the reigns on insanely long and grueling practices as well as letting his coaches coach.
Also,the RAMS led the NFL in rushing defense (74.3 ypg)and sacks(57) that year. They also sent 2 guys on defense to the pro bowl
(T. Lyght/Kevin Carter).
Point being that Vermeil was a complete HC. The NFC title game & the SB was won because of Martz' offense and the very good defense.
Martz' subsequent teams were in position to win titles because of Martz' offense... but didn't. Why? Because turning the ball over with regularity was part of the system as well as poor clock mgmt,poor drafts, etc.
Martz was an excellent OC, but that's not the point Cheese. To claim that they don't "sniff" the SB that year is IMO not true.
If Martz was the lone X factor then surely he'd have won something in the 9 yrs since right.......?

Part of the success of the defense was due to the Rams getting out to such huge leads on offense. If you are down 21 points to the Rams in the first half you simply STOP running the ball and start throwing. Thus, the rushing number will be low and the sack number high. I don't think the Rams get near the Super Bowl with everything the same except Martz and his system. I think they could've played the Super Bowl however, with Trent Green instead of Kurt Warner. I know you are a coach-hater Mojo...that's cool .

 

[nowagimp]

Part of the success of the defense was due to the Rams getting out to such huge leads on offense. If you are down 21 points to the Rams in the first half you simply STOP running the ball and start throwing. Thus, the rushing number will be low and the sack number high. I don't think the Rams get near the Super Bowl with everything the same except Martz and his system. I think they could've played the Super Bowl however, with Trent Green instead of Kurt Warner. I know you are a coach-hater Mojo...that's cool .

Yup, you nailed that one cheesewater. That rams offense put points on the board in a hurry. And in the NFL, that means less rushing attempts, and not by a little. That rams offense was amazing, just amazing.

 

[mojorizen7]

I know you are a coach-hater Mojo...that's cool .

Only 2. The Mad Mike's of the world.....

 

[Cheesewater]

Only 2. The Mad Mike's of the world.....

Heh heh.

What about little Scottie Linehan? Don't you want to just smack him with a rolled up newspaper right about now?

 

[mojorizen7]

Heh heh.

What about little Scottie Linehan? Don't you want to just smack him with a rolled up newspaper right about now?

He couldn't motivate a caged lion.....he was never qualified in the first place IMO. He transformed a putrid Miami offense into just a bad one.
Good times
Since i doubt B. Cower would even interview for the HC job, i'd be all for Marty ball in St Louis.