Do Ayton's comments concern you?

[BC867]

I think gentlemenly is a good way to describe the franchise outside the first three Barkley years (and really... probably just the first Chuck year where he was a machine throughout).

What this team was missing for the other years, IMO was "attitude" or "swagger". I think Booker has it. Dude was talking trash to guys his second year in the league and letting people know about it... while backing it up.

The hope is that Ayton can do the same thing.

I think that's what BC is trying to say.

You hit it on the head, cheese.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's hard for me to understand a man being concerned about another man's desire to earn money. It's what's on everyone's mind whether you want to admit it or not and I can actually appreciate Ayton's honesty.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think gentlemenly is a good way to describe the franchise outside the first three Barkley years (and really... probably just the first Chuck year where he was a machine throughout).

What this team was missing for the other years, IMO was "attitude" or "swagger". I think Booker has it. Dude was talking trash to guys his second year in the league and letting people know about it... while backing it up.

The hope is that Ayton can do the same thing.

I think that's what BC is trying to say.

I certainly like "gentlemanly" better than "meek" but I just don't see it. We've had our share of just about every type player, like most teams. Yes, we had a stretch after the Johnny High years where Jerry tightly controlled the type of person we'd bring in and was quick to send them packing at the first hint of a public problem but OTOH he traded for a player with a huge perception issue. And we haven't been that type of team since Sarver took over IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I certainly like "gentlemanly" better than "meek" but I just don't see it. We've had our share of just about every type player, like most teams. Yes, we had a stretch after the Johnny High years where Jerry tightly controlled the type of person we'd bring in and was quick to send them packing at the first hint of a public problem but OTOH he traded for a player with a huge perception issue. And we haven't been that type of team since Sarver took over IMO.

well, we've been pretty nothing since Sarver got to build the team without Jerry's control.

I'm just thinking about the best teams since I started watching. The KJ/Horny/Chambers teams from 88-92 we're very, very good teams... teams that made me fall in love with basketball... but they were tissue paper soft, IMO. The only time they REALLY stunned me was when Mark West seemingly had a cattle prod stuck up his butt for an entire series and dominated the 64 win Lakers in 1990 in 5 games, but then buckled against the Blazers in the next round, just squandering big lead after big lead. There's a reason Cotton said at the end of '92 that what this team needed was a Barkley, because they had very little toughness/swagger. Still a very good team mind you, but not that next level title winning thing.

The Barkley years had them, but the next time we were really good, it was the Kidd/Chapman/Uncle Spliffy/McDyess/Manning squad... another VERY good team that didn't have enough killers on it, IMO, whether Manning tore his ACL or not.

And the Nash/Amare squads... the only thing that really held that team back was how mentally weak they were, IMO and that rotted down from the top. Again, they didn't have the killer/instinct/enough dog in their fight that title winning teams do, IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think meek correlates well with gentlemanly. When I hear "meek" I think timid, reserved, or passive. Maybe gentle, but not gentleman. No matter how you look at it though I would not describe Ayton as meek, passive, shy, or anything like that. Perhaps it wasn't smart to say that but it wasn't a red flag either. He didn't say he was looking for the max either, he said he wanted to earn that second contract and I think every 1st or 2nd round pick would say the same behind closed doors. Guys like Greg Oden never did and that wasn't really his fault either. It's questionable if Embiid truly deserved his also, after getting paid 2 years to ride the bench and in his 3rd making his NBA debut and playing around 35 games. Sure, he looked good, but he couldn't hold up for half of the season. Among other Phoenix youngsters it's fair to say Chriss, Bender, and Len didn't earn their 2nd contracts either.

I saw someone post on Twitter how we're 65 days removed from the last NBA Finals game and we're also 65 days away from the start of the new season. We're officially in the No-NBA Zone right now and dissecting Ayton's comments, that he made over a month ago, proves that. I think he deserves a little bit of applause for riling up Embiid again, if anything. I look forward to those 2 having some battles in the future.

 

[BC867]

I certainly like "gentlemanly" better than "meek" but I just don't see it. We've had our share of just about every type player, like most teams

I think gentlemenly is a good way to describe the franchise outside the first three Barkley years (and really... probably just the first Chuck year where he was a machine throughout).

What this team was missing for the other years, IMO was "attitude" or "swagger". I think Booker has it. Dude was talking trash to guys his second year in the league and letting people know about it... while backing it up.

The hope is that Ayton can do the same thing.

Steve, please do what I did and take another look at every one of the many, many names of Suns players you listed.

Then ask yourself, who of them matches cheesebeef's description of having "attitude" or "swagger"? The traits that make a team serious playoff contenders. We haven't had our share. Not by a long shot.

There is a direct correlation between our lack of such players and our having reached the Finals just twice (once a Cinderella year) for our first half century.

The foundation was set during MacLeod's decade of rewarding obedient players -- the good soldiers. And disposing of those who had the toughness to have won championships -- like Dennis Johnson and Maurice Lucas. It broke my heart when he didn't know how to make good use of their "swagger". Cotton was the only one who understood that later and came the closest.

 

[Yuma]

Xavier McDaniel. Don't mess with that guy!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, please do what I did and take another look at every one of the many, many names of Suns players you listed.

Then ask yourself, who of them matches cheesebeef's description of having "attitude" or "swagger"? The traits that make a team serious playoff contenders. We haven't had our share. Not by a long shot.

There is a direct correlation between our lack of such players and our having reached the Finals just twice (once a Cinderella year) for our first half century.

The foundation was set during MacLeod's decade of rewarding obedient players -- the good soldiers. And disposing of those who had the toughness to have won championships -- like Dennis Johnson and Maurice Lucas. It broke my heart when he didn't know how to make good use of their "swagger". Cotton was the only one who understood that later and came the closest.

I couldn't agree less. Of current franchises we have the 14th highest playoff winning percentage, we don't stand out as "meek" there. We're just average. And we have the 7th highest winning percentage for regular season play. Again, we don't stand out as meek.

As for swagger or attitude, how about Connie Hawkins? Or Ricky Sobers? Or Paul Westphal (as a player)? Or Walter Davis? Or Ron Lee. How about Don Buse, one of the more hard nosed defensive guards at the time. Or maybe Raja "clothesline" Bell? Or KJ, would a meek player take it straight at the bigs time and again? Eddie Johnson yapped all the time. Do you really think that Amare and Kidd were meek? Mark West? We've had our share of just about every type player except perhaps the "enforcer" type that was popular for a decade or so starting in the late 70's.

BTW, I did include Maurice Lucas. I'm sure I forgot some names that should have been there but Lucas wasn't one of them.

 

[Errntknght]

I would characterize the Suns as a team that has only ever paid lip service to defense. They've had some top notch defenders on the team but they didn't value them appropriately. Dennis Johnson, Maurice Lucas, Raja Bell - I'd put Xavier McDaniel in that category here except Cotton didn't even play him enough for it to show. Paul Silas. AC Green. Its a very short list and we always had them after their prime. Barkley could have been a very good defender but Westfall never demanded it.
We've never drafted a top defender or developed one. We've never had a defensive minded coach except for a couple very short timesrs who were all talk - Terry Porter and what's his name before Hornacek.

It will be interesting to see if Kokoskov can turn this into a great defensive team - he's got enough good individual defenders to work with if McD doesn't fritter them away.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would characterize the Suns as a team that has only ever paid lip service to defense. They've had some top notch defenders on the team but they didn't value them appropriately. Dennis Johnson, Maurice Lucas, Raja Bell - I'd put Xavier McDaniel in that category here except Cotton didn't even play him enough for it to show. Paul Silas. AC Green. Its a very short list and we always had them after their prime. Barkley could have been a very good defender but Westfall never demanded it.
We've never drafted a top defender or developed one. We've never had a defensive minded coach except for a couple very short timesrs who were all talk - Terry Porter and what's his name before Hornacek.

It will be interesting to see if Kokoskov can turn this into a great defensive team - he's got enough good individual defenders to work with if McD doesn't fritter them away.

Now that I'd agree with. I think defense is frequently overrated but even having said that, I think the Suns have typically undervalued it.

 

[sunsfan88]

I’m honestly more concerned about Josh Jackson than I about DeAndre Ayton.

I follow Jackson on Instagram and it showed that he has spent most of his summer in Europe and Mexico and when he’s back in the states he’s usually at a concert or clubs.

Obviously being as a young as he is, I would certainly expect him to enjoy his summer partaking in these type of activities for sure. But it’s still somewhat strange that there hasn’t been anything about him working out or working on his game in the summer. There’s not a player on the roster who needs to improve his jumper more than Jackson does especially if summer league was any indication.

For example, there’s been numerous videos that Booker has posted and others have posted of Booker of him working out. Same with Ayton.

Jackson could of course be working out privately and that’s understandable. I just hope he is improving his game and his strength. Another second year guy like Jayson Tatum has been all over social media with various trainers posting videos of working with him and improving his game. Tatum looks considerably bigger and stronger too from his summer workouts. This same thing applies to Donovan Mitchell as well.

Jackson for the most part from the photos he’s posted on his trips looks the exact same or maybe even a bit smaller and that’s opposite direction of where he should be headed.

 

[Hoop Head]

I’m honestly more concerned about Josh Jackson than I about DeAndre Ayton.

I follow Jackson on Instagram and it showed that he has spent most of his summer in Europe and Mexico and when he’s back in the states he’s usually at a concert or clubs.

Obviously being as a young as he is, I would certainly expect him to enjoy his summer partaking in these type of activities for sure. But it’s still somewhat strange that there hasn’t been anything about him working out or working on his game in the summer. There’s not a player on the roster who needs to improve his jumper more than Jackson does especially if summer league was any indication.

For example, there’s been numerous videos that Booker has posted and others have posted of Booker of him working out. Same with Ayton.

Jackson could of course be working out privately and that’s understandable. I just hope he is improving his game and his strength. Another second year guy like Jayson Tatum has been all over social media with various trainers posting videos of working with him and improving his game. Tatum looks considerably bigger and stronger too from his summer workouts. This same thing applies to Donovan Mitchell as well.

Jackson for the most part from the photos he’s posted on his trips looks the exact same or maybe even a bit smaller and that’s opposite direction of where he should be headed.

I remember reading something about how Jackson was working with a nutritionist to gain the right sort of weight and how he planned on putting on 10 pounds this summer. He said he wanted to put on good weight also because last season he realized how much you had to eat to just stay where you're at so he was hoping to consistently become a certain weight by doing it the right way. It's disappointing if he's not doing that though. I'll have to try and find that article.

JJ did play in SL while Booker played with Team USA. So that first month where everyone was getting away a bit it seemed like Jackson stuck around in Phoenix headed into the Summer League. I wouldn't say he's put in no work but he put it in at a different time. If he's not back a few weeks before camp starts and is clamping down on his lifestyle more then I'll be worry but this is his first summer as an NBA player and I can't fault a 20 year old kid who became a millionaire within the last year for having some fun. He's sound really good with what he's talked about improving. He may not be showing it and that's a little concerning but he'll have the stiffest competition amongst our starters. He won't be able to slack off while competing with TJ and Bridges for minutes. His motor and IQ are high enough that I believe he knows that also.

 

[AZ Native]

What gets me is that this kid was a number one pick. SOMEONE should have taught him to say things like, "I am just excited to play basketball, get better, and help my team win" when the topic of money comes up. I don't blame him for wanting money- everyone does, but why isn't there someone advising him not to talk about that?

Yeah, should have been forced to recur Bull Durham cliches.

 

[Hoop Head]

I found that interview I referenced above with Jackson talking about plans for this offseason and heading into next season. Was having a lot of trouble finding it, I didn't realize until I started searching for it how foolish it was to google "Josh Jackson" and thinking I'd find what I was looking for somewhat easily. I'll need to bookmark any articles I see in the future that involve him. I found it by searching "Josh Jackson eating NBA" because I remembered it talked about him not eating enough last year and having a bad diet but he plans on putting on some muscle for next season and doing it properly so he can maintain it throughout the year with his diet. He does talk about a lot more than just his diet, just posting that part here.

Here's the excerpt on the weight/eating part....

The rookie campaign changed Jackson’s day-to-day diet routine as well. “In college, sometimes I would eat hot fries for dinner,” Jackson says. “You can’t do that in the NBA.”

During his first year, Jackson discovered he wasn’t eating enough. He worked on it throughout the season and plans to carry it over into the summer. Breakfast will be a mix of bread, pancakes, waffles or toast with eggs and chicken sausage or turkey bacon, with lunch and dinner being a mix of vegetables, rice and chicken. And also a lot of water.

“I never knew before coming to the League how much drinking water drastically affects your weight,” Jackson says. “Sometimes after a workout, you’ll get so dehydrated, you hop on the scale and you’ve lost three to four pounds, and it’s straight water weight.”

The plan right now is for Jackson to add eight to ten pounds of muscle before he arrives at training camp in September.

If you don't think you've read it before I'd recommend it. I know it was posted here previously by someone but I'm not sure when it was posted, who posted it, or what thread it was put in. Here's the link....

https://www.slamonline.com/nba/on-the-rise-josh-jackson/

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If I had any concerns, they were washed away with this video. How can you not root for a dancer that skilled?

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[Yuma]

I am not trying to be political, but as a reference President Trump's comments concern me. Ayton's, not so much.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

His response to "Best advice you have received early in your pro career?": "I'm still waiting for some good advice. I'm waiting for my veterans to come back to Arizona from their lovely vacations. I'm sure they'll help me and have plenty of advice."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...icks-lebron-james-move-los-angeles-lakers-5-5

 

[Chaplin]

His response to "Best advice you have received early in your pro career?": "I'm still waiting for some good advice. I'm waiting for my veterans to come back to Arizona from their lovely vacations. I'm sure they'll help me and have plenty of advice."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...icks-lebron-james-move-los-angeles-lakers-5-5

At least he knows who he needs to listen to. Better than his agent.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Agreed - I thought that was a positive statement to balance out what some are worried about. I am more worried about summer league effort (granted, perceived, and it was summer league) than anything he has said to date.

 

[95pro]

Got to love the fact that he took care of his mom, others buying cars instead.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If I had any concerns, they were washed away with this video. How can you not root for a dancer that skilled?

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He is a natural entertainer/comedian. He will be on SNL at some point.

 

[TJ]

Not worried. If he needs a humbling experience, he’ll get it in the pros. I genuinely think he’s going to struggle out the gate and then figure it out by December.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not worried. If he needs a humbling experience, he’ll get it in the pros. I genuinely think he’s going to struggle out the gate and then figure it out by December.

Its all dependent upon the guards. I don't have much confidence in the pg's but if Booker and Ayton can develop some chemistry, it will make a huge difference. Those two have to figure out how to get one another open looks.

 

[Russ Smith]

I’m honestly more concerned about Josh Jackson than I about DeAndre Ayton.

I follow Jackson on Instagram and it showed that he has spent most of his summer in Europe and Mexico and when he’s back in the states he’s usually at a concert or clubs.

Obviously being as a young as he is, I would certainly expect him to enjoy his summer partaking in these type of activities for sure. But it’s still somewhat strange that there hasn’t been anything about him working out or working on his game in the summer. There’s not a player on the roster who needs to improve his jumper more than Jackson does especially if summer league was any indication.

For example, there’s been numerous videos that Booker has posted and others have posted of Booker of him working out. Same with Ayton.

Jackson could of course be working out privately and that’s understandable. I just hope he is improving his game and his strength. Another second year guy like Jayson Tatum has been all over social media with various trainers posting videos of working with him and improving his game. Tatum looks considerably bigger and stronger too from his summer workouts. This same thing applies to Donovan Mitchell as well.

Jackson for the most part from the photos he’s posted on his trips looks the exact same or maybe even a bit smaller and that’s opposite direction of where he should be headed.

Booker was at another one of the Rico Hines open runs at UCLA recently, Durant was there too, they were on the same team for awhile according to the video.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Booker was at another one of the Rico Hines open runs at UCLA recently, Durant was there too, they were on the same team for awhile according to the video.

Hmm lots of DBook with Durant. Sounds like he wants to sign with us eventually and solve our PF problem . . .