Do We Really Need To Change Anything?

[btimsah]

After watching the Jazz defense versus the Spurs, Doesnt it really prove that our defense was fine? We made them work for everything, but like all great teams they still won. But in large part because of the suspension to Amare. It's like taking Duncan away from the Spurs.. What happens then? I mean, really should we really go nuts changing this team when we lost because of one of the worst NBA rullings of all time? Ridiculous in my opinion.

I mean it really comes down to weather or not you believe we would have won game 5 at home with Amare and Diaw (who I don't like).

While some changes to make a more cohesive team would be welcomed and I think a big time scorer at the 2 would really help, we really could have beaten the Spurs in game 7 had the suspensions not happened.

 

[Nasser22]

We don't have to blow up the team but some changes need to be done. We need better defense. Kurt will probably be gone so we need to replace him with someone younger who can block shots and rebound well. We won't win if we let guys like Tony Parker do lay-up drills on the D. We also need bench players who fit our system and D'Antoni needs to start increasing the rotation to 9 or 10. I agree that this team is fine, but it does need improvement. It's mostly on the coach though to start making smarter decisions.

 

[gdiddy]

More depth and a backup for Nash. Preferably a solid shooting guard like Joe Johnson.

 

[btimsah]

We don't have to blow up the team but some changes need to be done. We need better defense. Kurt will probably be gone so we need to replace him with someone younger who can block shots and rebound well. We won't win if we let guys like Tony Parker do lay-up drills on the D. We also need bench players who fit our system and D'Antoni needs to start increasing the rotation to 9 or 10. I agree that this team is fine, but it does need improvement. It's mostly on the coach though to start making smarter decisions.

I agree.. But sometimes against great players, you just have to outscore them. That is - they will get theirs, try to limit them as much as possible but if you don't think it's likely you can stop em' it's better to get a guy who can outscore HIM instead of stopping him. See, I think in some ways when we play Bell and Marion so much we get hurt on offense. But their good on defense.. Give and take I suppose.

So when people talk about how bad Ray Allen is on defense, well yes he may not be very good. But he can score an extra 25 a night for us. Garnett.. same thing. That's what makes the Spurs so good (ugh I hate saying that!) they have Ginobli, Parker and Duncan who are great scorers. Inside and out.

We need to dump Marion for a more offensive player, and get a bigger allstar 2 guard. That would really go a long way to give us more weapons to combat the Sterns with..

 

[HooverDam]

No major changes are needed. If the Suns get Atlantas pick and are lucky enough to get Horford, they'll have a young KT like player for years to come. Even though Horford was somewhat abused by Greg Oden, KT will be able to tutor him and if we are lucky enough to keep Ivaroni around, he can school Horford as well.

Then if they can find a decent back up PG option to give Nash some more rest, I think they'd be most people's pick to win the NBA title.

In a series against the Spurs, imagine the team we could field:

C KT
PF Amare
SF Marion
SG Bell
PG Nash

bench
F/C Horford
F Diaw
F Jr Jones
SG Barbosa
PG Aaron Brooks/Free agent signing/trade

So there is certainly a lot of reasons to be hopeful

 

[btimsah]

No major changes are needed. If the Suns get Atlantas pick and are lucky enough to get Horford, they'll have a young KT like player for years to come. Even though Horford was somewhat abused by Greg Oden, KT will be able to tutor him and if we are lucky enough to keep Ivaroni around, he can school Horford as well.

Then if they can find a decent back up PG option to give Nash some more rest, I think they'd be most people's pick to win the NBA title.

In a series against the Spurs, imagine the team we could field:

C KT
PF Amare
SF Marion
SG Bell
PG Nash

bench
F/C Horford
F Diaw
F Jr Jones
SG Barbosa
PG Aaron Brooks/Free agent signing/trade

So there is certainly a lot of reasons to be hopeful

Yeah Horford would be nice.. I'm afraid I'm more of an NFL man when it comes to the draft and don't understand the NBA draft at all.. what pick do we really have??

About that lineup..

Can you imagine that lineup with a Ray Allen type at the SG position? I don't like players like Bell in the playoffs. Their guarded like glue and cant really do much one on one. They gotta be wide open.. kills us.

 

[sharkman]

Someone's going, make no mistake about it. Sarver doesn't want to pay luxury tax...not only is it a dollar for dollar penalty...but the team doesn't share in the revenues.

This year the Suns were about a mil over the tax...but Sarver lived with it because he thought the team had a legitimate shot at a title (thanks to Stern we'll never know).

Next year, with Barbosa and Diaw's new deals the payroll is at $76million for ten players...not including the draft picks. The tax for the full roster would put total player payroll somewhere around $96-$100 million mark...

...not a chance Sarver does it...especially when San Antonio is around the $65million mark ($30-$35 million less).

Most of the core will stay...but someone's large salary is going...KT will probably stay (he'll almost certainly exercise his option because only one team - Charlotte - has more cap space than what his salary will be)...and he'll be an expiring contract who'll be off the books at the end of the year.

 

[Diawsome]

I agree.. But sometimes against great players, you just have to outscore them. That is - they will get theirs, try to limit them as much as possible but if you don't think it's likely you can stop em' it's better to get a guy who can outscore HIM instead of stopping him. See, I think in some ways when we play Bell and Marion so much we get hurt on offense. But their good on defense.. Give and take I suppose.

So when people talk about how bad Ray Allen is on defense, well yes he may not be very good. But he can score an extra 25 a night for us. Garnett.. same thing. That's what makes the Spurs so good (ugh I hate saying that!) they have Ginobli, Parker and Duncan who are great scorers. Inside and out.

We need to dump Marion for a more offensive player, and get a bigger allstar 2 guard. That would really go a long way to give us more weapons to combat the Sterns with..

That is true about great players. Tim Duncan is a great player, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are not, you can't allow them to get the basket as easily as they did. You need a shot altering big man in the middle to stop their penetration because good perimeter defense will only help you to a certain extent.

Ray Allen would not help the Suns. He takes too many bad shots to play in a team oriented offense. He would either chuck up a bunch of 3 pointers with a hand right in his face or he would drive to the basket where Tim Duncan would be ready to alter his shot (see Leandro Barbosa's MIA in this series).

If you are going to trade Marion for say a Ray Allen to hope your offense becomes even better you might as well trade Nash so he can have an actual shot at a championship because there would be no chance at all of contending here with the only player capable of playing defense being Raja Bell who all of a sudden gets his minutes cut in half because of him and Allen playing the same position.

 

[Nasser22]

I agree.. But sometimes against great players, you just have to outscore them. That is - they will get theirs, try to limit them as much as possible but if you don't think it's likely you can stop em' it's better to get a guy who can outscore HIM instead of stopping him. See, I think in some ways when we play Bell and Marion so much we get hurt on offense. But their good on defense.. Give and take I suppose.

So when people talk about how bad Ray Allen is on defense, well yes he may not be very good. But he can score an extra 25 a night for us. Garnett.. same thing. That's what makes the Spurs so good (ugh I hate saying that!) they have Ginobli, Parker and Duncan who are great scorers. Inside and out.

We need to dump Marion for a more offensive player, and get a bigger allstar 2 guard. That would really go a long way to give us more weapons to combat the Sterns with..

But the Spurs did what they wanted with them. We need to improve more defensively, not forget about that and go with more offense.That won't solve anything. They just need to get the ball to Amare more often and I'd like to add a bench player who actually shows up offensively and can make some shots to replace James Jones.

Hoover, it's pretty likely that Kurt will be gone to free up some cap room as well as Iavaroni who will probably get a head coaching job.

 

[sharkman]

Yeah Horford would be nice.. I'm afraid I'm more of an NFL man when it comes to the draft and don't understand the NBA draft at all.. what pick do we really have??

We'll know Tuesday after the lottery...Atlanta had the 4th worst record...but if they are lucky in the lottery and land one of the top three spots, they keep the pick. We'll get the pick if it is 4-7. We also have Cleveland's #24 pick and our own at #29.

History tells us that unless there is a salary purge, the Suns trade at least two of the picks.

 

[sharkman]

Kurt will probably be gone so we need to replace him with someone younger who can block shots and rebound well.

Kurt's not going anywhere unless he's part of a salary purge (in which case Diaw's $9mil is a better purge option). KT's salary is scheduled to be $8,091,187...and only one team (Charlotte) is more than that under the cap (Orlando, Washington, and Atlanta will just be a few mil under). That means the highest salary KT can earn outside of Phoenix is the MLE (less than $6mil)...unless he goes to Charlotte.

KT will exercise his option...and his contract will expire at the end of next year...when hopefully we can sign him to a reasonable 2 year deal.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns need more margin for error. Counting on perfect health, perfect officiating, and perfect luck is a losing proposition.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

The Suns need more margin for error. Counting on perfect health, perfect officiating, and perfect luck is a losing proposition.

Agreed. We need defense and rebounding... the same thing we've pretty much always needed.

 

[Dan H]

I can see the merit in standing pat, save for our draft picks.

Rose, Burke, Jumaine Jones, and Sean Marks are free agents. I say re-sign Burke. That leaves three roster spots for four draft picks.

Stoudemire (Thomas)
Marion
Diaw (James Jones)
Bell (Barbosa)
Nash (Banks)
B - Burke

Then, assuming we get the Atlanta pick - draft Horford at 4. He'd add toughness and rebounding to the backup power forward position.

At 24, go Josh McRoberts if possible (might need to package the second rounder and move up, NBADraft has him going 21). I don't know why, but he just looks like a Suns player - and he can reliably hit the mid-range jumper (keeping out of Amare's way in the post), as well as get up and down the floor. Plus he's another big on the bench to backup the 4/5.

At 29, tab a 2 - Morris Almond would be my first choice, followed by Brandon Rush or maybe Marcus Williams from UA.

Give Nash 24-28 minutes a night, let the rookies get some playing time, and I think we're in solid position by the time the playoffs roll around. There's no reason three rookies can't contribute in the playoffs - especially guys like Horford and McRoberts who are battle-tested from big programs.

EDIT - just wanted to add, I think a guy like Morris Almond would be awesome on the Suns. He's a lights-out shooter.

 

[sunsfn]

Certainly a big key to next years team is the Atlanta draft pick. If the suns can get that and end up 4-6 apx. they can draft someone who may contribute next year. They may use it in a trade to get a veteran player from? I have thought all along that KT would be gone, but not so sure now. Without him against Duncan it would not have been a fun playoffs at all.
Remember, the luxury tax is based on the team payroll at the end of the trade deadline, that is the end of February. So if the suns draft or trade for a big, they have until then to see if the new player/players are working out before they make a trade for some cap relief.
I think they need two things. A big and I mean a big, not another 6'8" pf/c. They need someone that can be a threat to block a shot at all times when he is in. And they need another shooter. I had hopes for James Jones but he is just not doing it and may never be a consistent shooter. Jones is not a big salary though, and whatever the suns do he may still be back.

I can tell you that trading Marion is not something that I want the suns to do at all. I think without him this system does not work as well as it does.

If the suns could have ended up with Tim Thomas and John Salmons last year, I think they would still be playing.

 

[cly2tw]

The Suns need more margin for error. Counting on perfect health, perfect officiating, and perfect luck is a losing proposition.

Exactly! That's why Spurs won the series. They had many more alternatives and prepared for many more conditions to have the best odds possible given their roster, to advance in the post season.

You are kidding yourselves in believing without the suspension for Amare and Diaw, we'd have won the series. I predicted the series as Suns in 5 and didn't lose my faith after the game 1 loss, which I ascribed to DA's stupidity for not playing Kurt. Only after game 3 and 4, observing how the Spurs swiftly figured out how to neutralize all the weapons Suns deployed over the course, except for Amare's explosive drives after a good pass particularly late in the game.

LB was doing his thing in game 1-2, Diaw had his moments there too by posting on mismatches. Gone after game 3. Nash was covered well the whole series and were never really effective so as for us to have a chance to win the game on our offense alone like in regular season or even in the Lakers series. And meanwhile, they also completely figure out our defense and lost game 4 only because they "panicked" late in 4th qrt. Most discouraging fact is also that their most decisive score runs were also done in Suns style of shots under 7 seconds into clock.

They had us so figured out that I really can't fool myself to believe we'd won the series even without the suspension. I'd put it this way: Without suspension, we'd have had a chance of 20-80 to win out, likely in 7; with it, 5-95.

And all the while, as DA said it himself, we had more talent on our team! This indicates clearly to me that we need to change our approach a bit to better utilize the talent we didn't exploited to maximum.

 

[Taco]

More depth

You need better than an 8 man rotation

 

[dodie53]

will a 9 man rotation do the trick?

 

[Milgod]

My first post here so go easy.

I don't think that much needs to change. However, I can see a few things happening even if they do wait until Feb. Thomas is obviously going to use his option to stay and he has been useful (not $8m useful but still). If the Suns were to try and trade him they would certainly have some interest with his expiring contract. The only player I would be happy with Marion leaving for would be KG (maybe the Atl pick and Marion?). Diaw and Banks are eating up more wasted dollars than Matrix. STAT has to stay, he is the future and I wouldn't want to trade him for anything.
The draft picks could be really valuable, especially if we get the 4th pick. Horford looks great but he doesn't look like he could run with the Suns. Noah would be a good fit, especially as he doesn't seem to mind not being the go to guy and helping out wherever he can. He would be a stretch at 4 though. We need a back up PG, Acie Law maybe?

In FA I like the look of Gerald Wallace, he seems like a younger Marion. If we let matrix go and some other things were shifted then he would be a guy I would like.

The main thing is that we're still at the top, just the fine tuning to do.

 

[dodie53]

the twolves will not give KG for the #4 pick and marion..

diaw and banks will be hard to move because they have no trade value..

btw, who is better in defense? hortford or noah?

 

[Taco]

will a 9 man rotation do the trick?

You need deeper than 8 man

 

[Milgod]

the twolves will not give KG for the #4 pick and marion..

diaw and banks will be hard to move because they have no trade value..

btw, who is better in defense? hortford or noah?

Horford is for sure, and I would love to see him in a Suns uniform, just hope he can keep up.

The T-Wolves would give KG away for something like that, maybe we have to chuck something else small in the mix, but they are going to have to start again at some point.

I know Banks and Diaw will be hard to move, especially Banks, but there is always hope. There is also hope that Diaw comes in the the season in shape this time too.

 

[dodie53]

if diaw wakes from his hibernation, that will definitely help the suns alot next season..

 

[mathbzh]

We don't need to change anything on the offensive end. We already score at a very high %. I think our defense was not bad. If we can improve our rebounding numbers and have a deeper rotation. If we have the ATL pick it will help us a lot and could be enough.
I also hope Diaw will work hard this offseason and go back stronger. It would really help us.
We have to find a backup PG for Nash (he can't be a draft pick).
We were really close to win. We just need the players to be able to deal with suspensions/injuries.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yes we need to change things.

Adding talent will not help us one bit. We were more talented than the Spurs already.

We must change our defensive strategy. We must plan--at least in the playoffs to instigators. We must teach our players to slide their feet under every jump shot, foul often and hard when Steve is getting abused. This is obviously the type of play the league wants in the playoffs and the only way to win in it is to initiate it. We need expendable initiators on the roster. So that when they get suspended we have our talent intact.

The statement that sickened me most in the playoffs was when DAntoni said to Dan Patrick "We're not fighters".

After what the Suns had just endured in Game 4, if their not fighters, they're just sheep.

As much as I like DAntoni and his style of basketball, we won't win in the playoffs unless he takes off the dress.