Do we really need to replace our backs?

[Tony W]

I know I don't really post that much on here but here's MHO. I've been a fan since I moved here in '92. While we've had our share of talented backs IMO, i.e. Metcalfe, Pittman (if he could've kept clean), Shipp, Jones, Smith. Those few that have left have gone on to be at least somewhat productive backs. I'm really no fan of Arrington, but I really like Shipp even though his touches to TD ratio stinks to no end. It is IMHO that the line should be addressed ultimately and not waste and picks or FA signings on a back just yet. With glaring holes (read OL) showing themselves this year that's what I feel will solve our run situation. Looking for opinions on this.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I hope Shipp never plays a game for us again. Personally, he seems like a nice guy.

But you hit the nail on the head.....the guy has no sense of the endzone whatsoever. In Indy, watching him get stuffed time after time, that was the final straw for me. I don't even think you could have blamed our line, an NFL RB has to figure out how to fall forward into the endzone.

 

[Tony W]

reply

There has to be something said about the fact that Pittman, and more to the point Jones has gone on to be 1000 yard backs.

 

[abomb]

Replace LenDale White for Shipp and I am happy.

A-Bomb

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Replace LenDale White for Shipp and I am happy.

A-Bomb

I would love for the Cardinals to trade up for one of the big three but htis is my contention as well....if his value goes up (hes aprojected late round 1st right now) we should be able to snag him and if it remains or drops, i say we trade out and pick him ore Mercedes Lewis...both will be impact players on offense IMO....and white is the perfect complement to Arrington......

 

[football karma]

I think in terms of adding to--

and again, I am of the belief that the o line gets fixed via free agency--


wouldnt:

DeAngelo Williams or LenDale White
Arrington
Shipp

be better than:

Arrington
Shipp
Jackson

 

[seesred]

I'm in the White camp as well after seeing him in the Rose bowl game. A true power back with the added demention of speed. I still like JJ and given the opertunity which he never got this past season he will be a solid back in the NFL. THere were some signs unfortunatly most of the time if he had a good run he would be taken out and you wouldn't see him for the rest of the quarter, which I never understood. Many of those games we were playing from behind so the little running we did went away. There was one game the sticks out that Shipp got the ball on the two on a fourth down play that would have won the game and he couldn't make a yrad. JJ had two TD's going in and if that play was to be called he should have been the RB.

Arrington
White
Anderson

GBR
40

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm interested in seeing how Lendale does at his workouts. I heard on the radio the other day that White is a bit soft around the edges and hasn't alway dedicated himself to the gym like Bush has. I certainly don't want to give a guy $10 million only to watch him burn it all on Jr. Bacon Cheesburgers.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

There has to be something said about the fact that Pittman, and more to the point Jones has gone on to be 1000 yard backs.

I don't think you can go through the offseason saying, "what if we let go of this guy and he gets good??" Fact is, Shipp is not good on this team. And he if goes somewhere else and performs, good for him and that team.

You are forgetting the list of RBs that went on to do nothing:
Anthony Thompson
Johnny Johnson
Leeland McElroy
Adrian Murrell
Ron Moore
LeShon Johnson

 

[Duckjake]

Replace LenDale White for Shipp and I am happy.

A-Bomb

Replace any of our RB's with any power back for short yardage and I am happy.

We need a guy who can do what Jerome Bettis did for the Steelers this year. What Hoard did for the Vikings. Kinnebrew for the Bengals.

Then we can bombard teams with our passing game which will allow us to spring JJ for quick runs and then when we do get into 3rd and 2 or goaline situations the big guy can bust it in for us.

We MUST have a guy who can push the pile or run through a LB or S for a couple of extra yards.

 

[JeffGollin]

If we kept Shipp and Arrington as our core in order to address other priorities, I could live with that - so long as we added a 235+ lb short-yardage smashmouth guy.

Or if we could bring in a big feature back who was bigger than Arrington but faster than Shipp, I could see Marcel becoming expendible - so long as we also brought in someone big enough and fast enough to be our back up feature back.

I believe JJ still has a bright future here, but only in a role-playing capacity - i.e. passing downs or a Warrick Dunn type who could be featured on a stretch play running attack when a matchup dictates we go that way.

One way or another, though, we need to add a smashmouth element to our offense.

 

[ARZCardinals]

MY GOD, How long have you followed this team.

You could get any f'n back...sorry for the f'n, but learn people....

drafted, Garrison Hearst, Thomas Jones, brought in Adrien Murrell and others.


The LINE IS THE PROBLEM. Why do you think any fool can run in Denver...it's not the air...it's the offensive line.

STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING ANOTHER RB.

ONLY RETARDS THINK THE RUNNING GAME IS MADE BY THE RB....it's made by the OFFENSIVE LINE.

 

[abomb]

Replace any of our RB's with any power back for short yardage and I am happy.

We need a guy who can do what Jerome Bettis did for the Steelers this year. What Hoard did for the Vikings. Kinnebrew for the Bengals.

Then we can bombard teams with our passing game which will allow us to spring JJ for quick runs and then when we do get into 3rd and 2 or goaline situations the big guy can bust it in for us.

We MUST have a guy who can push the pile or run through a LB or S for a couple of extra yards.

Yep, this are my thoughts exactly. Not LenDale per se, but someone who can score on 1st and goal from the 3, in 3 tries or fewer.

As we solve our offensive line issues, things are going to get sooo much better.

A-Bomb

 

[NEZCardsfan]

MY GOD, How long have you followed this team.

You could get any f'n back...sorry for the f'n, but learn people....

drafted, Garrison Hearst, Thomas Jones, brought in Adrien Murrell and others.


The LINE IS THE PROBLEM. Why do you think any fool can run in Denver...it's not the air...it's the offensive line.

STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING ANOTHER RB.

ONLY RETARDS THINK THE RUNNING GAME IS MADE BY THE RB....it's made by the OFFENSIVE LINE.

WOW, you don't say?? Thank you for this incredibly insightful post.

I was confused. I thought we should cut all of our lineman and just put in street scrubs. Thank you for pointing out our flaws to us.

So if we have a line of:
Walter Jones
Hutchinson
Charles
Dan Diedorf
Anthony Munoz

....we'd be able to stick Bert and Ernie behind that line and expect 1000 yards apiece??

Thank you again for this post.....I've gotta go catch my short bus.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm interested in seeing how Lendale does at his workouts. I heard on the radio the other day that White is a bit soft around the edges and hasn't alway dedicated himself to the gym like Bush has. I certainly don't want to give a guy $10 million only to watch him burn it all on Jr. Bacon Cheesburgers.

His nickname is pudge because of his pudgy stomach. He's not a weight room fanatic he said himself "I don't have a god body like Bush or Bing", I'm hoping that's going to let him slip to #10.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

MY GOD, How long have you followed this team.

You could get any f'n back...sorry for the f'n, but learn people....

drafted, Garrison Hearst, Thomas Jones, brought in Adrien Murrell and others.


The LINE IS THE PROBLEM. Why do you think any fool can run in Denver...it's not the air...it's the offensive line.

STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING ANOTHER RB.

ONLY RETARDS THINK THE RUNNING GAME IS MADE BY THE RB....it's made by the OFFENSIVE LINE.

I don't know about that.

I still think a lot of it concerns the backs. Shipp has run behind OLines worse than this in years past, and did MUCH better than he did this year.

I think Arrington is not a full time back type of guy, and Shipp has just lost too much speed and quickness.

On top of that there are a good number of top running backs in FA this year.
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66966

I think we go with some of these guys. We have the money.

I think we should bring in Labrandon Toefield. Even if it is just for depth. I have always liked how he runs the ball. Just my opinion.

 

[JasonKGME]

I hope Shipp never plays a game for us again. Personally, he seems like a nice guy.

But you hit the nail on the head.....the guy has no sense of the endzone whatsoever. In Indy, watching him get stuffed time after time, that was the final straw for me. I don't even think you could have blamed our line, an NFL RB has to figure out how to fall forward into the endzone.

Yea, Shipp's 9 TD's in 226 touches in 2002 were actually being done by someone else.

Shipp has a nose for the endzone just fine. In 2003 he wasnt given any end zone opportunities, in 2004 injured, in 2005 1st year back from injury he has an oline that allows the team to rush for uner 1000 yards for the season and gain a whole whopping 2 TD's on the ground all year long. But of course it's because Shipp sucks not any problem with the O-line.


Look, Shipp is what he is, a good back, much like Jake Plummer you have to build a team that is designed to cater to Shipps strengths, give him a small hole and he'll get that tough yardage for you, let him get hit 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage and he'll get ya back to the line of scrimmage but not get you any positive yardage. He's never going to be a game breaking back, but he is a solid option to run the ball, and he will get into the end zone again once we get any semblance of a real O-line.

 

[moklerman]

I'm not sure getting a new rb is going to be the answer for the short yardage situations. It couldn't hurt and as long as it's not a reach I guess BPA would be fine, but as much as I thought Lendale White was a stud, he was getting stacked up by Texas and not converting the exact type of situations we're talking about for the Cardinals.

It wasn't every time, but if Texas can stack him up in obvious situations then I think an NFL defense would do the same. Improvement on the o-line is obviously a need for the Cards but I honestly don't know where to start.

I mean, NE and Denver are good examples of teams that get the most out of their guys. NE has a starter from Cal State Bakersfield for crying out loud! Why's that significant? First, that's where I live and any good news out of this place is a rare treat. Second and more importantly, the CSUB Roadrunners don't, and never have, had a football team. He was a wrestler and NE turned him into a quality starting lineman. My point is, if the Card's haven't had good coaching it's going to be hard to evaluate whether or not they can keep the guys who are here. Just to make the argument tougher though, all the mental errors by the line couldn't have just been coaching, right? So, does that improve with better coaching or do the (apparently) stupid lineman overshadow the coach's efforts?

All in all, I would add as many lineman as possible and do whatever it takes to make that a solid unit. Arrington, Shipp and Jackson all have potential so it wouldn't be the end of the world to pass on a rb depending on what's available in the first round. I think Green will take the BPA that fills a need so I'm not worried about that right now. I think the Cards want to run an offense very similar to KC's and even as good as they are, without Roaf and Shields(I think) in there that offense comes to a halt. Holmes and Johnson are studs, but it all starts up front. I think there's a lot more Holmes' and Johnson's out there than quality o-lineman so it's all going to depend on who's available.

Does anyone know about Debrickshaw Ferguson from Florida? I've asked a couple of times and got no response. The mock drafts that I've read say he's the next Pace/Jones/Ogden. Wouldn't that be a good guy to draft?

 

[Duckjake]

I'm not sure getting a new rb is going to be the answer for the short yardage situations. It couldn't hurt and as long as it's not a reach I guess BPA would be fine, but as much as I thought Lendale White was a stud, he was getting stacked up by Texas and not converting the exact type of situations we're talking about for the Cardinals.

I believe LWhite scored on a 4th and short but more to the point. NOBODY in the history of the NFL has been successful on every short yardage situation.

But if a "speed" guy like Arrington is going to be the featured back then you need a banger for short yardage. IMHO Shipp, for all his effort, is simply not enough of a power back to handle that role.

 

[Russ Smith]

I believe LWhite scored on a 4th and short but more to the point. NOBODY in the history of the NFL has been successful on every short yardage situation.

But if a "speed" guy like Arrington is going to be the featured back then you need a banger for short yardage. IMHO Shipp, for all his effort, is simply not enough of a power back to handle that role.

If you draft White at #10 there's no way JJ is the feature back. Green said it this year when he named JJ the starter right away, you draft a guy that high you expect him to play. You draft him 34 picks higher than JJ, you're certainly saying you expect him to play ahead of JJ right away.

Going to be an interesting offseason for JJ, he's got to work hard to get his teammates back on his side, he came out of camp with people raving about him, coaches, fans, teammates, and then he didn't back it up.

I think with a better OL JJ will be fine, but if we get a shot at White I'd take him and never look back. you can never have too many good RB's in the NFL because of injuries.

 

[Diggity]

I think we would be down right insane to draft a Part-time back with the #10 pick. Sure LD White had a great game against Texas, but does he have the durability to last all season? I wouldn't draft him because of one good game, the guy is all hype right now in my opinion. We can find a short yardage back out on the market for much cheaper than a #10 pick.
I'm on the bandwagon that the line is the problem, not the backfield. Have you seen some of the holes that Alexander, Tomlinson, Portis, get at times. Hell it would make Chuck Levy look like an all-pro. Look what having an offensive line did for Priest Holmes.. Before he went to K.C. he was nothing special. Heck if I remember correctly Baltimore let him go. Thomas Jones wasn't the problem, Hell I wouldn't even say Leshon Johnson, or Touchdown Tony Thompson, or Terrance Flagler where the main issue, maybe an issue, but not the main issue. Duval Love, James Dexter, etc.. where the issue.. You get the O-line rolling this team will be moving, because that means ball control, less time the defense is on the field, play-action with Boldin, Fitz.. Heck these guys caught over 100 balls and teams knew we where throwing. You throw a play-action in there. You may have less catches, but I quarrentee we wouldn't have a red-zone problem because we'd have big play touchdowns. I have no proven theory behind that remark, just an opinion.
Focus Oline # 1 priority on offense

 

[john h]

I know I don't really post that much on here but here's MHO. I've been a fan since I moved here in '92. While we've had our share of talented backs IMO, i.e. Metcalfe, Pittman (if he could've kept clean), Shipp, Jones, Smith. Those few that have left have gone on to be at least somewhat productive backs. I'm really no fan of Arrington, but I really like Shipp even though his touches to TD ratio stinks to no end. It is IMHO that the line should be addressed ultimately and not waste and picks or FA signings on a back just yet. With glaring holes (read OL) showing themselves this year that's what I feel will solve our run situation. Looking for opinions on this.

When you have the worst running game in the NFL you definitely make changes with your RB's as well as the OL. Neither of these backs are what I would call red zone running backs. It is not ALL the OL. We would be very foolish or worse not to add some RB's who have proven they can run the ball. If we cannot run the ball we will have another 6-7 win season. DO NOT TAKE THIS GAMBLE>

 

[john h]

Yep, this are my thoughts exactly. Not LenDale per se, but someone who can score on 1st and goal from the 3, in 3 tries or fewer.

As we solve our offensive line issues, things are going to get sooo much better.

A-Bomb

I do not see JJ or Shipp as a feature RB regardless of our OL. JJ is no 30 carries a game type guy. Not big enough or strong enough. We need a larger feature running back which looks a lot like White. He looks like a guy who can tote the ball 30+ times a game.

 

[joeshmo]

I think we would be down right insane to draft a Part-time back with the #10 pick. Sure LD White had a great game against Texas, but does he have the durability to last all season? I wouldn't draft him because of one good game, the guy is all hype right now in my opinion.

One good game? Hype?

He and Bush equally shared carries this year. He has a 6.6 YPC and thats with a lot of red zone runs dragging that number down. and leads the nation with 26 total TD's, Bush had 19 TD's. This was not his only good game of the year he has had multiple good games over the last few years. White was already a first round back before the Texas game even happened, This game only solidified his top 15 status, as of right now before workouts of course.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do not see JJ or Shipp as a feature RB regardless of our OL. JJ is no 30 carries a game type guy. Not big enough or strong enough. We need a larger feature running back which looks a lot like White. He looks like a guy who can tote the ball 30+ times a game.

The NFL record for carries in a season is 410 by Jamal Anderson, that's just under 26 carries a game. So I don't think we can really complain that we have no 30 carry a game RB's, nobody in NFL history has ever had one.

I do agree we need another RB and I'm all for white at #10 but he's not going to carry the ball anywhere near that much if we want him to last the season.