Do we really need to replace our backs?

[Diggity]

One good game? Hype?

He and Bush equally shared carries this year. He has a 6.6 YPC and thats with a lot of red zone runs dragging that number down. and leads the nation with 26 total TD's, Bush had 19 TD's. This was not his only good game of the year he has had multiple good games over the last few years. White was already a first round back before the Texas game even happened, This game only solidified his top 15 status, as of right now before workouts of course.

I would hardly consider running against pack 10 teams a challenge. The pac-10 fared really well in the bowl games, which solidifies that Pac 10 football is a joke. Oregon showed the pack-10 true colors against the so-called lowly Sooners.

Again ONe Good Game.... and he still is Hype in my opinion.

 

[Russ Smith]

One good game? Hype?

He and Bush equally shared carries this year. He has a 6.6 YPC and thats with a lot of red zone runs dragging that number down. and leads the nation with 26 total TD's, Bush had 19 TD's. This was not his only good game of the year he has had multiple good games over the last few years. White was already a first round back before the Texas game even happened, This game only solidified his top 15 status, as of right now before workouts of course.

Yep he led USC in rushing his first 2 years, this year he only lost the job because he was ineligible and missed offseason workouts.

 

[joeshmo]

I would hardly consider running against pack 10 teams a challenge. The pac-10 fared really well in the bowl games, which solidifies that Pac 10 football is a joke. Oregon showed the pack-10 true colors against the so-called lowly Sooners.

Again ONe Good Game.... and he still is Hype in my opinion.

So then Bush is all hype to you as well then?

 

[Russ Smith]

I would hardly consider running against pack 10 teams a challenge. The pac-10 fared really well in the bowl games, which solidifies that Pac 10 football is a joke. Oregon showed the pack-10 true colors against the so-called lowly Sooners.

Again ONe Good Game.... and he still is Hype in my opinion.

What conference was USC in when they won the last 2 NC's?

Remind us again who USC blew out last year in the bowl game? I think that's the same team UCLA beat this year. You take the starting QB key to an offense off most teams they're going to suffer, that's what happened to Oregon.

Pac 10 is not a great offensive conference, don't deny it, yet somehow USC has played for the NC 3 years in a row and won it twice.

 

[AZCB34]

....we'd be able to stick Bert and Ernie behind that line and expect 1000 yards apiece??

Bert doesn't have good vision but Ernie is a real bruiser back who has a nose for the endzone. Oscar is a much more polished RB but is overlooked because he goes to Trashcan U.

 

[Duckjake]

The NFL record for carries in a season is 410 by Jamal Anderson, that's just under 26 carries a game. So I don't think we can really complain that we have no 30 carry a game RB's, nobody in NFL history has ever had one.

I do agree we need another RB and I'm all for white at #10 but he's not going to carry the ball anywhere near that much if we want him to last the season.

Robert Smith averaged around 17 carries a game as the "featured" back in Green's offense in Minnesota. They also had Leroy Hoard to do some of the tough yardage running.

If you draft White at #10 there's no way JJ is the feature back. Green said it this year when he named JJ the starter right away, you draft a guy that high you expect him to play. You draft him 34 picks higher than JJ, you're certainly saying you expect him to play ahead of JJ right away.

The Cards don't need to spend a first round pick on a guy like White. But they do need to pick up somebody for the power running if they are going to be using Arrington as the single back most of the time in their usual 3 WR sets because of his "speed" etc.

 

[Russ Smith]

Robert Smith averaged around 17 carries a game as the "featured" back in Green's offense in Minnesota. They also had Leroy Hoard to do some of the tough yardage running.




The Cards don't need to spend a first round pick on a guy like White. But they do need to pick up somebody for the power running if they are going to be using Arrington as the single back most of the time in their usual 3 WR sets because of his "speed" etc.

Well that's only if Green is convinced on JJ. I know he said he was but he sure didn't act like it based on playing time and carries.

 

[Diggity]

What conference was USC in when they won the last 2 NC's?

Remind us again who USC blew out last year in the bowl game? I think that's the same team UCLA beat this year. You take the starting QB key to an offense off most teams they're going to suffer, that's what happened to Oregon.

Pac 10 is not a great offensive conference, don't deny it, yet somehow USC has played for the NC 3 years in a row and won it twice.

My point is not that USC isn't a good football team, You have to give credit where credit is due. USC is a dominant team, and have the last 3 years. My point is that any team can rack up offensive stats against Pac 10 teams. Face it no defense in the Pac-10 outside of USC scares anyone. So when you are Reggie Bush and LD White, you'd be licking you lips when you get to conference play because not one single team has any form of a defense. That's why I said the Pac-10 is a joke.
Reggie Bush isn't Hype, but he wouldn't have had the same success in the Big 12, Big 10 or SEC

 

[Russ Smith]

My point is not that USC isn't a good football team, You have to give credit where credit is due. USC is a dominant team, and have the last 3 years. My point is that any team can rack up offensive stats against Pac 10 teams. Face it no defense in the Pac-10 outside of USC scares anyone. So when you are Reggie Bush and LD White, you'd be licking you lips when you get to conference play because not one single team has any form of a defense. That's why I said the Pac-10 is a joke.
Reggie Bush isn't Hype, but he wouldn't have had the same success in the Big 12, Big 10 or SEC

Yes the Pac 10 is not a great defensive conference, we agree on that.

I just thought it was ironic you trashed Oregon for losing to OU. OU's QB graduates and they go from top ranked to barely in a bowl game, Oregon loses their QB to late season injury and you apparently expected them to continue on without missing a beat?

But I do agree, Pac 10 doesn't play defense.

 

[Duckjake]

Well that's only if Green is convinced on JJ. I know he said he was but he sure didn't act like it based on playing time and carries.

True. But don't you think with what Green wants to do with his offense a guy like Arrington is a better fit to him than a bruising runner like White? If not I'm all for LenDale because big backs like him are the way to go in the NFL. Have to do something to counter the monster linebackers the pros have developed.

Oh by the way, USC only has 1 1/2 National Championships in a row. As a poster pointed out in another thread LSU won the BCS National Championship game after the 2003 season. Stupid BSC botched it two years in a row picking OU for the game instead of USC in '03 and Auburn in '04.

So if they had beaten Texas they could have claimed a twoandahalf peat.

 

[Renz]

Yea, Shipp's 9 TD's in 226 touches in 2002 were actually being done by someone else.

Shipp has a nose for the endzone just fine. In 2003 he wasnt given any end zone opportunities, in 2004 injured, in 2005 1st year back from injury he has an oline that allows the team to rush for uner 1000 yards for the season and gain a whole whopping 2 TD's on the ground all year long. But of course it's because Shipp sucks not any problem with the O-line.

It goes both ways. Any schmuck off the street can waltz into the end
zone if the defense is blown off the ball. Sometimes a RB has to score when there isn't much there. Shipp has shown he is basically incapable of doing that.

2002 was a long time ago. That's probably why he doesn't get many red zone touches anymore.

 

[Indiana Hoosier]

I went to the Colt - Card game, and I could not believe the size of Arrington. He looked like a (Midget & when he is touched, he is down). Marcel is just to slow. Good Backup. We need a "STUD", end of reply!

 

[Russ Smith]

True. But don't you think with what Green wants to do with his offense a guy like Arrington is a better fit to him than a bruising runner like White? If not I'm all for LenDale because big backs like him are the way to go in the NFL. Have to do something to counter the monster linebackers the pros have developed.

Oh by the way, USC only has 1 1/2 National Championships in a row. As a poster pointed out in another thread LSU won the BCS National Championship game after the 2003 season. Stupid BSC botched it two years in a row picking OU for the game instead of USC in '03 and Auburn in '04.

So if they had beaten Texas they could have claimed a twoandahalf peat.

I still consider USC the champ 2 years ago I thought they were the best team and they were ranked #1 most polls except the BCS one. But that's an old argument and if they'd beaten Cal it would have never happened.

I was just responding to John's comment that we needed a 30 carry a game RB, if we do the closest we're going to get is White.

I think JJ can be a very good RB in this system with a better OL, but he's never going to be a power RB anymore than Bennett or Smith were in Minnesota.

I don't know if Green would pick White or not, he's certainly not the prototype RB for a Green system although my USC friends tell me White is a much better receiver than people realize. he wasn't on the bench in passing downs because he can't catch, he was there because Bush is like having another WR on the field.

 

[TX BIG RED FAN]

I hope Shipp never plays a game for us again. Personally, he seems like a nice guy.

I agree.

 

[ajcardfan]

My point is not that USC isn't a good football team, You have to give credit where credit is due. USC is a dominant team, and have the last 3 years. My point is that any team can rack up offensive stats against Pac 10 teams. Face it no defense in the Pac-10 outside of USC scares anyone. So when you are Reggie Bush and LD White, you'd be licking you lips when you get to conference play because not one single team has any form of a defense. That's why I said the Pac-10 is a joke.
Reggie Bush isn't Hype, but he wouldn't have had the same success in the Big 12, Big 10 or SEC

That is a very common opinion about the Pac 10. But, it is never backed up by the actual draft. The Pac 10 holds up very well against those other conferences in number of guys drafted and where they are drafted. But, they seem to land as many good starters as anyone. Particularly at the skill positions.

For example, Ngata is being called a top ten possible pick, first round for sure, even though he plays DT in a conference with "no form" of defense. The Pac 10 will probably have at least 4 guys drafted in the top 15 or 10. If scouts thought the conference was significantly weaker than the other 3, that just wouldn't happen.

Also, the "bowls" didn't prove much either. Unless you want to say the Pac 10 is competitive with the other conference. Oregon lost. But, they were in FG range to go to OT and their 3rd string QB throws an INT with 30 secs to go trying for the win. USC also lost in the last seconds, one play away from a win. The other teams won.

From top to bottom, I don't think the Pac 10 is as strong as the other conferences. What the Pac 10 lacks is depth behind their top players. But, they land as many top players as any conference.

 

[Tashunca]

Trade DOWN to secure an additional draft choice in the second round. Then with one of our THREE choices we select the Running Back/Return Specialist Maurice Drew who has been compared to Reggie Bush. Check out this on UCLA's DREW. http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?ID=35164

 

[conraddobler]

As a rule of thumb you replace your backs only about half as often as you replace your fronts.

Just FYI.

 

[CardinalChris]

Forget the chicken or the egg discussion... upgrade both. Shipp has heart, but showed that leg injury took a little from him, and he didn't have that much to spare. JJ has shown enough ho-hum effort to at least express concern, and a third back is non-existant. Our line isn't much better. Half of our line is backup material. So fixe BOTH, we have the room to make moves, so do it.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Replace LenDale White for Shipp and I am happy.

A-Bomb

check my sig

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Does anyone know about Debrickshaw Ferguson from Florida? I've asked a couple of times and got no response. The mock drafts that I've read say he's the next Pace/Jones/Ogden. Wouldn't that be a good guy to draft?

Didn't we hear that about Robert Gallery and Leonard Davis? I also heard Matt Leinart is the next Tom Brady, Bush is the next Tomlinson, Lendale is the next Shaun Alexander, and Vince Young is the next Randall Cunningham. No matter what you keep saying, there's just as much risk drafting a offensive lineman in the Top 10 as there is running back or quarterback.

 

[Redrage]

Bert doesn't have good vision but Ernie is a real bruiser back who has a nose for the endzone. Oscar is a much more polished RB but is overlooked because he goes to Trashcan U.

I like thefact that Cookie Monster has the ability to "chew up" huge chucks of yardage.

 

[moklerman]

All this talk of a short yardage/power back got me to thinking who's out there in FA if it comes to that. You know what, I'd be pretty pleased for the Cardinals to pick up Anthony Thomas. He's gotta be fresh and he's looked pretty good with the brief opportunities he's got with Dallas and New Orleans. I would give him a shot.

As far as first round/top 10 qb's and rb's being a bigger risk I don't know for sure, it's just my feeling on the subject. For the most part, I think top 10 guy's who aren't qb's have a better history of success. I don't know where to even begin researching such a thing but a big part of my opinion is obviously perception. When a top 10 qb busts it makes the news every week, when some other position doesn't make it, they just fade away.

Is Gallery having problems? I don't follow the Raiders but I haven't heard anything about RG this year(no news is good news?). Looking at first round tackles over the last couple of years:
Chris Samuels
Stockar McDougle
Chris McIntosh
Leonard Davis
Kenyatta Walker
Jeff Backus
Mike Williams
Bryant McKinnie
Levi Jones
Marc Colombo
Jordan Gross
George Foster
Kwame Harris
Robert Gallery
Shawn Andrews
Vernon Carey

Qb's look to be at 50/50 as far as success:

1 1 Tim CouchQBKentucky
1 2 Donovan McNabbQBSyracuse
1 3 Akili SmithQBOregon
1 11 Daunte CulpepperQBCentral Florida
1 12 Cade McNownQBUCLA
1 18 Chad PenningtonQBMarshall
1 1 Michael VickQBVirginia Tech
1 1 David CarrQBFresno State
1 3 Joey HarringtonQBOregon
1 32 Patrick RamseyQBTulane
1 1 Carson PalmerQBSouthern California
1 7 Byron LeftwichQBMarshall
1 19 Kyle BollerQBCalifornia
1 22 Rex GrossmanQBFlorida
1 1 Eli ManningQBMississippi
1 4 Philip RiversQBNorth Carolina State
1 11 Ben RoethlisbergerQBMiami, O.
1 22 J.P. LosmanQBTulane

Running backs seem a liitle more of a sure thing:

1 4 Edgerrin JamesRBMiami
1 5 Ricky WilliamsRBTexas
1 5 Jamal LewisRBTennessee
1 7 Thomas JonesRBVirginia
1 11 Ron DayneRBWisconsin
1 19 Shaun AlexanderRBAlabama
1 31 Trung CanidateRBArizona(worst draft pick ever?)
1 5 LaDainian TomlinsonRBTexas Christian
1 23 Deuce McAllisterRBMississippi
1 27 Michael BennettRBWisconsin
1 16 William GreenRBBoston College
1 18 T.J. DuckettRBMichigan State
1 23 Willis McGaheeRBMiami
1 27 Larry JohnsonRBPenn State
1 24 Steven JacksonRBOregon State(Rams have drafted TWO first round rb's since 1999? G'bye Martz)
1 26 Chris PerryRBMichigan
1 30 Kevin JonesRBVirginia Tech

 

[JasonKGME]

Sometimes a RB has to score when there isn't much there.

I total agree with this statement. However there is a BIG difference between "isn't much there" and "not only nothing there but you're going to have to beat 3 guys 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage". In 2002 we weren't exactly "blowing defenses off the line", what we were doing is HOLDING the line of scrimmage and then Shipp would get those 2-3 yards needed to score which is exactly what any decent back will do.

 

[Tony W]

Rb's

When you have the worst running game in the NFL you definitely make changes with your RB's as well as the OL. Neither of these backs are what I would call red zone running backs. It is not ALL the OL. We would be very foolish or worse not to add some RB's who have proven they can run the ball. If we cannot run the ball we will have another 6-7 win season. DO NOT TAKE THIS GAMBLE>

So you would say your priority would be to take a back at #10? Then Address the OL?

 

[football karma]

So you would say your priority would be to take a back at #10? Then Address the OL?

At #10 -- there is only one OL who I have seen (for all those pre-draft projections are worth) that is consistently in the top 10 -- D'Brick Ferguson -- and he is projected to go immediately after the young, bush and leinart.

Winston Justice comes close to that slot, but as Russ documented in another thread, the guy is incredibly immature and has a variety of off the field issues in his past. No thanks at #10.


DeAngelo Williams is routinely projected in the 7 - 12 draft range and could very well be the BPA at that slot when the Cards pick. LenDale White is projected lower, but after he declares we will see where the consensus is on where he goes.