Does Anika make the cut in the Colonial?

[Card Trader]

Originally posted by Jersey Girl Cards Fan
Russ, the reason a lot of women's leagues started in the first place is because women weren't allowed to play in the men's leagues. So, saying that the LPGA is discriminating against men is kinda weird since the LPGA formed out of discrimation against women.

If she makes it, people will follow her every move. That can't be fun ... unless you're a narcissist.

I don't think that is true, I believe a woman golfer in the 40's Qualified for a PGA tournament and played in it.

Key word, qualified. I'm all for that, if Sorenstam is honestly good enough to qualify for the tournament then more power to her.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tango while I admit I personally wouldn't want to play on the women's tour the point is you can't demand equality and then have your own "league" that doesn't allow men, it's hypocrisy.

Am I the only one who remembers Renee Richards the pro womens tennis player who had to sue to get on the tour because she had a sex change and used to be a man?

I seriously doubt Tiger wants to play on the womens tour but Joe blow who can't make the PGA tour probably wouldn't mind making
millions on the LPGA if he were allowed to.

I have no objection to Sorenstam competing, I just object to all the women(and men) now coming out and saying Singh's comments are an example of discrimination. Ignorant maybe, sexist maybe, but not discriminatory because he's not the one playing in an association that doesn't allow a certain gender to compete in it, SHE is.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Card Trader
I don't think that is true, I believe a woman golfer in the 40's Qualified for a PGA tournament and played in it.

Key word, qualified. I'm all for that, if Sorenstam is honestly good enough to qualify for the tournament then more power to her.

Babe Didrikson Zaharias, I have no idea if she qualified or was given an exemption.

She was a former Olympic Athlete.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by brews
Yes, but he was an established PGA player the minute he made his first step on the Tour. He followed a generally accepted procedure for getting onto a Tour event, not some cheap stunt.

We'll find out in a few days, when she doesn't make the cut, that she didn't deserve to be out there.

Huh?

The generally accepted procedure is to go to Q-school and/or the Nike(Hooters) Tour to earn card. Tiger is probably the only golfer who qualified solely thru exemptions.

And saying he was an established PGA player the moment he stepped on the course is like saying Carson Palmer is an established NFL player when he lines up for his for snap..

 

[Tangodnzr]

I understand your point Russ. But I only agree with it to a certain degree.

You can indeed say women banning men from a sport while women playing in mens is allowed is not equality. But so what?
Some things don't need to be "equal" or "fair" in that respect in sports.

In life, maybe yes. Sports. I don't think so.

Is is unfair or unjust to limit children as far as age groups in competition?......not allowing older children to compete against younger, smaller ones?
Yet if a talented, extra-ordinary younger player can and want's to play with the older ones, be allowed too?

Yeah, I agree, it does seem hypocritical that whoever the people making the noise...... are......

....ah well, not only their hypocrisy gets unveiled, but their ignorance too.

 

[brews]

Originally posted by Dback Jon
Huh?

The generally accepted procedure is to go to Q-school and/or the Nike(Hooters) Tour to earn card. Tiger is probably the only golfer who qualified solely thru exemptions.

And saying he was an established PGA player the moment he stepped on the course is like saying Carson Palmer is an established NFL player when he lines up for his for snap..

Matt Kuchar tried to do the same thing, there's also the UofA alum who did the same thing on the Euro Tour, and maybe even Michelson. It's different now with these guys coming out of college (and even HS) already established.

As to the second point, Tiger was a factor from day 1 on the Tour. Are you saying Carson Palmer is?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I understand your point Russ. But I only agree with it to a certain degree.

You can indeed say women banning men from a sport while women playing in mens is allowed is not equality. But so what?
Some things don't need to be "equal" or "fair" in that respect in sports.

In life, maybe yes. Sports. I don't think so.

Is is unfair or unjust to limit children as far as age groups in competition?......not allowing older children to compete against younger, smaller ones?
Yet if a talented, extra-ordinary younger player can and want's to play with the older ones, be allowed too?

Yeah, I agree, it does seem hypocritical that whoever the people making the noise...... are......

....ah well, not only their hypocrisy gets unveiled, but their ignorance too.

For some reason you got me thinking about the Seinfeld episode where Kramer keeps bragging about dominating at "the Dojo" only to find out later he's competing with 11-12 year old kids (-:

All I'm saying is as long as the LPGA doesn't allow men, they can't complain about the PGA tour. If there are women out there who are good enough to play on the PGA tour by all means they should attempt to qualify and play.

I only object to the word discrimination because I don't think the PGA tour does that , with women.

The IGFA established a whole new set of "world records" in fishing when they established a womens section, completely pointless. A world record is established by line class(how strong the fishing line you used was) not anything else. They have had to tweak rules over the years for some ridiculous reasons(one world record "catch" was a guy who happened upon a species of fish trapped in a tidepool, caught it and landed it, so they changed the rules to make that no longer a legit record for example) but a new class for women is nuts. In fact some of the womens records are higher than the mens records, there should be one set of records.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
For some reason you got me thinking about the Seinfeld episode where Kramer keeps bragging about dominating at "the Dojo" only to find out later he's competing with 11-12 year old kids (-:

All I'm saying is as long as the LPGA doesn't allow men, they can't complain about the PGA tour. If there are women out there who are good enough to play on the PGA tour by all means they should attempt to qualify and play.

I only object to the word discrimination because I don't think the PGA tour does that , with women.

The IGFA established a whole new set of "world records" in fishing when they established a womens section, completely pointless. A world record is established by line class(how strong the fishing line you used was) not anything else. They have had to tweak rules over the years for some ridiculous reasons(one world record "catch" was a guy who happened upon a species of fish trapped in a tidepool, caught it and landed it, so they changed the rules to make that no longer a legit record for example) but a new class for women is nuts. In fact some of the womens records are higher than the mens records, there should be one set of records.

and on that I do totally agree. Just like in billiards. I don't think there should be any distinctions made between sexes. There are indeed a lot of them that are frivoulous and ignorant.

 

[Lars the Red]

For the record:

-I would rather watch women's beach volleyball than men's.

-I would rather watch women's tennis than men's.

-I almost pissed my drawers facing a women's All-American softball pitcher.

-I always try to get a big hitting woman on my 4-some in scramble tourneys.

However:

-I don't think women should be police officers.

-or firefighters.

-or combat soldiers.

-Womens basketball is repulsive.

-With very few exceptions, so is women's golf.

I hate the attempts by people to blur the lines between the sexes. It's been a popular past time for many years now and all we need to do is look around us and see how it's caused many problems in todays society. We have people in positions of responsibility that are not capable of executing the task. While playing golf hardly compares to going into a burning building to save a life, it is another example of the politically correct crowd trying to continue to fuzzy the lines between the sexes.

If, Anika would be able to play, (in this one tourney, that is arguably the shortest on tour) to a level that is average for the the PGA what exactly does that prove? Is there any more value to this accomplishment than that of a chimp that takes a 2nd grade math test and scores in the middle of the class? Is the chimp the equal of the kids on a daily basis or was this more the exception instead of the rule.

We are equal in the eyes of God. We are all equal in the eyes of the ballot box. However, we are not all equal in intellect, income, morals, athletic ability, sexual prowess, opportunities in life or just about any other that involves people as individuals.

On those rare occasions that someone actually goes well beyond what is the norm for their gender or intellect or what ever else, it's fine to appreciate the effort, but we shouldn't forget that it is the exception. Anika would never be able to compete on the PGA regularly. She admits that herself, just as Serena Williams said about men's tennis. So we are basically trying to take a short course, on a single week and use it as some kind of example to further blur the gender lines, and that's the reason I don't like the addition of her to the tourney. Play exhibitions if you want to see if you can compete in a one shot deal.

 

[cardpa]

I actually like what Tiger Woods stated, give Annika 4-5 excemptions and see if she really can play on the tour. She could have a bad round in this tournament and it proves nothing. Then after 4-5 tournaments you will really know if she can play at that level or not. Case closed. Either she can or can't. More power to her if she can. This isn't all that different than when the golfer (Casey I think) with the disability wanted to ride in a cart and play on the tour. Where is he now? I don't think he is even on the Nike tour. See all this hoopla goes away after awhile. Too many people get all jacked up about stuff like this when its the media that plays it to sell stories and papers or ad time/space. Everyone needs to sit back relax and see what happens. Root for her or against her and enjoy the ride.

 

[JeffGollin]

The answer to this issue is to let the LPGA have their women-only tournament, let the men have their own tournament and create a 3rd category of "dual-gender tournaments" where anyone who makes the cut gets to compete.

------------
"Game called on account of rain." - Al Barlick

 

[CardNots]

The PGA has no rules barring women or stating its a men's only association. What rules are being broken? Anika has every right.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by CardNots
The PGA has no rules barring women or stating its a men's only association. What rules are being broken? Anika has every right.

Auugh, I don't think anybody has said otherwise the claim is she's getting special treatment(note I'm not claiming that others are).

My whole objection is when this topic comes up inevitably someone says "why shouldn't women be allowed on the PGA tour, if they're good enough they should be allowed to play the PGA shouldn't discriminate against women." To which I answer, they don't , the rules say nothing about women on the tour, but ironically the LPGA DOES discriminate against men and none of the people complaining seem to think this is hypocritical.

If she's good enough to make the tour by all means go for it. I just don't like the side topic of discrimination that comes up. I'm watching local news last night and a black guy at a local driving range says "it's discrimination used to be no black folks, now it's no women." Ticks me off the discrimination against blacks was(and in some cases still IS) real, there is no discrimination against women so to lump them together like that actually trivializes the racial discrimination this guy was apparently mad about.

Anika said yesterday she believes she can win the tournament, I personally think it would be great.

 

[CardNots]

Russ,
I hear you. Based on the people given exemptions in the past, I believe her 40+ plus wins on the LPGA makes her exemption justified. The discrimination issue was brought up in several other comments on this thread.

 

[DCCardsFan]

My two cents:

Her exemption was fine - the whole purpose of an exemption is to allow someone who couldn't or didn't qualify a chance. These people are generally high profile. The argument that she's taking someone's spot is petty and stupid. It is true that sometimes a sponsor's exemption will use it to get into the top 125 (David Gossett, for instance), but you can't complain because ONE spot was used up in a way that will increase the earnings on the entire tour because of the publicity (and Annika is certainly going to increase the size of the pie for the men by playing).

Lorrie Kane had it right - she said that IF Annika plays GREAT, she MIGHT make the cut. The cold reality is that she will probably miss the cut by 10-15 strokes. She may even come in dead last.
How is she going to handle the thick rough and 470 yard par fours with fast, hard, greens and tough pin positions that she NEVER sees on the ladies tour?

John Smoltz said that he played a round with Tiger and Annika - and BEAT Annika (he didn't say by how much). If John Smoltz can beat Annika in the only round he plays with her (and she has no pressure), how is she going to beat the real pros in a pressure situation? She ISN'T. She'll shoot 80+ in at least one of those rounds. The person who said she might withdraw with an injury might have it right.

It takes guts for her to play with the guys, and I respect her for that. But this will only show how much better the guys are.

I remember when people said that Mia Hamm should play for the US mens soccer team. That is hilarious, because the truth is that a good, quick, all-star high school player would dominate Mia Hamm or any other woman player. It isn't even the same game. Same in basketball, tennis, golf.

THe only sport women can compete with men in is pool. And they still aren't nearly as good.........

 

[Northern Card]

Letting her play play on the men's tour from time-to-time, makes a heck of alot more sense than the ongoing debate we have in this country about women playing professional hockey. Can you imagine?

 

[HoodieBets]

Did anyone watch when annika played with tiger at some match play event that was nationaly televised? She had a melt down, one of the worst golfing performances by a professional i have seen. You could tell then that she dosent deserve to play in the PGA. She cracked under the media and she will do it again at the colonial. She had her chance to prove she could play with the big boys and failed why try now? It pisses me off when a double stanard occurs and the people who create the double standard bitch. I saw someone forget who it was say vijay is scared? What a moronic statement. He has won 2 masters and is a top 5 golfer in the world. He will blow her away. She will not make the cut but it will be interesting to see who she will tee it off with on Thursday. Maybe her and vijay will be in the same group what a sight that would be.