Does anyone care if we overpay?

[ajcardfan]

I don't. So what if we pay Colvin, Stewart or Blake, Jackson, Okeafor, Holliday, Smith, or any other of the top free agents we targeted,one or two mil more a year than anyone else would? If that's the reality, then let's deal with it. I know that would have an eventual effect on depth, but the one thing this franchise has done very well the last few years is find quality role players in the late rounds of the draft and rookie UDFAs. Wakefield, Barrett, Hill, Lucas, Shipp, Anderson, Woods, etc. etc.

Is there any compelling reason why we shouldn't overpay right now? The one difficulty I see is in retaining some of our own players if we're successful.

 

[Sandan]

Yes, if we overpay too much/too often we can't afford to sign enough talent elsewhere

 

[JeffGollin]

Yes, if we overpay too much/too often we can't afford to sign enough talent elsewhere
Point well taken. But I think the Cards take this to the extreme. Hells bells! We've got $30 mil-plus dollars worth of cap money to spend.

Overpaying a couple of players (as an "early-signing bonus") to end the drought and make it easier to sign other FA's down the road may actually save the Cards money, because the longer we wait, the more desperate we'll become.

 

[jstadvl]

We offered Jackson

2 mil. +per year. Is he worht that? Not being a wise guy, honestly wondering.

 

[Shane]

Re: We offered Jackson

Originally posted by jstadvl
2 mil. +per year. Is he worht that? Not being a wise guy, honestly wondering.

Heck like AJ said we payed Kwammie 3.3 last year for that position and Jackson is a better player IMO!

I would have offered him 3 million even!

 

[jstadvl]

Ok

so do we up the ante to try to beat out Pitt.?

 

[Shane]

Re: Ok

Originally posted by jstadvl
so do we up the ante to try to beat out Pitt.?

I would

 

[AZCB34]

I think the Cards can afford to overpay, however I think they should be wise in how, and to whom, they overpay. Don't do it across the board of FAs they want just to get them. Colvin, Okeafor are worth it. Jackson is not Whomever compared his contract with kwammie's? Just because we paid KLass like that doesn;t mean we should pay Jackson like that.We should have never paid KLass that much...noi matter how much we liked the guy.

Stewart, I don't want him enough personally to overpay him however reality is if the Cards really want him they will likely have to overpay...much like DEN did to get Plummer. I want Blake more and would overpay for him but what is overpaying for him?

Holliday, I have not been even the slightest bit interested in him so I wouldn't overpay here or if I really wanted him I wouldn't go way over like I might for Colvin.

 

[Card Trader]

Face it, like it or not, we HAVE to overpay, money being equal, who in their right mind would choose to play here over ANY other team in the NFL? That's what it comes down to.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Card Trader
Face it, like it or not, we HAVE to overpay, money being equal, who in their right mind would choose to play here over ANY other team in the NFL? That's what it comes down to.

I agree. Blake stated on the ASR (Arizona Sports Report) last night that there are things a FA considers besides money. Two being who the lost in FA and who they have signed. (only big names count)

Right now the only thing we can show in this FA is losing our QB (ho hum), the best WR in FA (ouch). We have had 6-10 visits from FAs with only two offers being extended 48 hours after the FA left town (I am not including Jackson because we do not really know if we offered a contract).

My feeling is if we do not land Colvin, then Okefer/Holliday will not sign here. There is a dommino effect. If we land Colvin then that speaks louder than words.

 

[jstadvl]

The Trib

reported today that we offered Jackson 2+mil/yr. The only things I think keep FA's away is their perception of Mr. Bidwill, which i believe to be skewed, and playing in the desert. The new stadium will help that. However most mercenaries don't hang out for 3-4 years unless a team is very close. They get their money up front and move on.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Card Trader
Face it, like it or not, we HAVE to overpay, money being equal, who in their right mind would choose to play here over ANY other team in the NFL? That's what it comes down to.

absolutely agree and that's the conundrum I'm complaining about. Ultimately overpaying is going to bite you in the butt unless you luck into a lot of good players late in the draft or UDFA. But, even if you do, if they become good players, they get paid more and ultimately you have to reach a point where you can sign players at market value as opposed to OVER market value or you run out of caproom.

This is precisely what Buddy Ryan did in building his team, he knew what he wanted and wanted to make a splash, but he overpaid a bunch of guys to make that splash. It took the team YEARS to get out from under the cap mess he left behind.

 

[Ed B]

We need to overpay a little now or a lot later......it's up to Graves.

Overpaying a guy like Colvin could get other free agents encouraged to come here at a more reasonable price.

But if we wait and don't sign any impact players we have to beg the remaining scraps of the free agents to come here, we're gonna end up paying a guy like Okeafor $6 million a year just so we can add <b>someone</b> to the team. And that will be a much worse kind of overpaying.

Better to overpay a star (Colvin) than to overpay a stiff that you had to turn to because the star jilted you.

 

[Ed B]

If we don't sign Colvin, I have no idea how we can possibly spend up to the cap.

Don't league rules require teams to spend a minimum percentage of the cap?

We have about $27-29 million (about $5 million was used to tender EFAs and RFAs and re-sign Tanner and a few other guys) available right now.

Let's put the rookie cap pool at about $5 million. That takes us down to $22-$24 million.

Jackson is apparently not signing here. We are also not bringing back Kwamie. If Colvin doesn't sign, that means the Cardinals are going to have as much as $24 million dollars of cap space to try to sign their own mediocre UFAs (Sanders, Makovicka, Fredrickson, etc) which should barely cost anything and the balance will be to fight over the reject pile of free agency and June 1 guys.

Even if we signed every UFA we have, it probably wouldn't cost more than $10 million. And the only way I see to spend the balance if we miss out on Colvin will be to throw obscene, undeserved amounts of money at average players like Okeafor or some veteran journeyman QB.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Ed B
We need to overpay a little now or a lot later......it's up to Graves.

Overpaying a guy like Colvin could get other free agents encouraged to come here at a more reasonable price.

But if we wait and don't sign any impact players we have to beg the remaining scraps of the free agents to come here, we're gonna end up paying a guy like Okeafor $6 million a year just so we can add <b>someone</b> to the team. And that will be a much worse kind of overpaying.

Better to overpay a star (Colvin) than to overpay a stiff that you had to turn to because the star jilted you.

Exactly right Ed. Whoever we sign, we're going to pay more than anyone else would. So, get some quality. At least four or five guys. We're well set for managing the cap in the future.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I wouldnt get your hopes up this team signs anyone of substance this year. They want to wait for the Stadium and sign FA's next year. They will try to pull a New England Patriots and bring in a bunch of middle-teir guys to fill the roster and spend the minimum cap. But I wouldnt count on this team bring in the likes of Colvin, Stewart, or whoever else is out there.

They will field a young team this year, take a beating and set themselves up for the opening of the new stadium next year. The writing is on the wall people.....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
I wouldnt get your hopes up this team signs anyone of substance this year. They want to wait for the Stadium and sign FA's next year. They will try to pull a New England Patriots and bring in a bunch of middle-teir guys to fill the roster and spend the minimum cap. But I wouldnt count on this team bring in the likes of Colvin, Stewart, or whoever else is out there.

They will field a young team this year, take a beating and set themselves up for the opening of the new stadium next year. The writing is on the wall people.....

I think that what you are saying is a baseless assumption....pretty lame. The team is actively persuing a lot of the better FAs on the market.

The only way we don't sign big FAs, is that they don't want to come here. Saying that we don't want to sign them is pure bs.

 

[jstadvl]

Is the stadium up

in 2004 or 2005? I thought it was 2005.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Is the stadium up

Originally posted by jstadvl
in 2004 or 2005? I thought it was 2005.

2005. By LVCardfreak's logic, we won't be going after any significant FAs for 2 years

 

[ajcardfan]

The Cardinals won't be in the new stadium until 2006. That's THREE more seasons in SDS. Personally, I want one stinking, home playoff game in that dump before we move.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
The Cardinals won't be in the new stadium until 2006. That's THREE more seasons in SDS. Personally, I want one stinking, home playoff game in that dump before we move.

You are right, I was thinking about the "old" Projection of time.

It would be nice to move into the new stadium, with new uni's (as Michael Bidwill stated), coming off a deep run into the playoffs!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I think that what you are saying is a baseless assumption....pretty lame. The team is actively persuing a lot of the better FAs on the market.

The only way we don't sign big FAs, is that they don't want to come here. Saying that we don't want to sign them is pure bs.

If the Cardinals wnated to sign big time FA's they would-it really is that simple. Colvin, Okeafor, Jackson, none of them would have left town.

I am not saying the team wont sign FA's-they have to-hell you have to spend the minimum, but it wont be anyone to get excited about.

My assumptions are about as baseless as your assumptions that the Cards are activly persuing "a lot of the better FA's on the market' If you consider bringing them into visit and watching them leave 'pursuing' then I have some swamp land in FL to sell you.

It is a game the Cardinals do not play well. In order for them to sign FA's they have to give them a reason to be there...'ballpark' offers from a team with a lame-duck head coach and bad ownership who lets their best players walk wont cut it.

Keep on wishing....this team has never signed anyone in FA worth a damn (outside of F. Jones-They overpaid for an overrated Starks) and this year will be no different

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Keep on wishing....this team has never signed anyone in FA worth a damn (outside of F. Jones-They overpaid for an overrated Starks) and this year will be no different

Ya know I have always enjoyed reading you over the years and even had some good debates with you. But you are beginning to border or ridiculous with some of your statements!

Sorry but Starks was a good signing the guy can play and is an above average CB. Did we pay more than we should have? YES! But we have to in order to get guys in here and thats what happened! At least we made the effort and it payed off!

Freddie Jones was an excellent signing you are correct and guess what we got a steal with his contract. Look at what the Chargers signed his replacement for and tell me you dont think so?

Oh yea that guy Pete kendall was a horrible FA aquisition as well HUH :roll:

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

No problem with the Freddie Jones signing...Think it was a good deal and a good contract. Starks was overrated before he came to the Cards. Yes I agree the Cards need to overpay to get FA's here and that he was the best FA Ccb on the market but we really overpaid for a guy who is a decent cover guy but cant tackle worth a lick.

Either way it doesnt matter, hes here and I hope he plays better-the fact that he is left alone on an island with no pass rush in front of him doesnt help much either. My contention is he is not the great cb everyone thought/thnks he is...he is average !

 

[RedStorm]

I think we HAVE to overpay at this point. We are in a hole and have to make offers that are much higher than anyone else.

We are in this position because we don't win. Period.


I an not hopeful though that we will overpay (do what it takes) to get some FAs signed. I feel this way because of Graves comments that he will make fair offers but not make anyone a millionaire who does not deserve it in his opinion.


So, money being equal, we will not land the FAs we need to build with. So, I think Graves will try to build through the draft and play the young talent. This will translate into a very long year.