Doncic - Anthony Davis Trade

[leclerc]

It's a shame about the Doncic trade to hell A, because I was getting to like the Reaves - Booker rivalry, and Booker will go into his shell now whenever we play the Lakers.

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont even understand why he showed up at an away game, let alone a lakers game.

some people are just gluttons for punishment.

I dunno, I bet he is reeeeally popular in LA right now.

 

[Yuma]

I dont even understand why he showed up at an away game, let alone a lakers game.

He doesn't dare show himself in Dallas!

 

[jf-08]

Oof.

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[Dback Jon]

Oof.

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Cuban is a billionaire that actually seems to be normal.

He bought the team because he grew up a Mavs fan. He tried to do it for the fans.

 

[Lorenzo]

Cuban is a billionaire that actually seems to be normal.

He bought the team because he grew up a Mavs fan. He tried to do it for the fans.

I like cuban, but he is not blameless here. He would have never traded Luka, but he did hire the people that did. Kidd/finley/nico and the idiot governor of the mavs that cited shaq as a guy that worked hard in the offseason. Cuban is a very smart guy that often does dumb things. Like letting Nash walk to the suns.

 

[Lorenzo]

Go Lakers!

 

[Brian in Mesa]

When Mavs fans weren’t cheering every time Luka touched the ball, they were chanting, “Luka !!” or, “Fire Nico !!”

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[swagron]

I like cuban, but he is not blameless here. He would have never traded Luka, but he did hire the people that did. Kidd/finley/nico and the idiot governor of the mavs that cited shaq as a guy that worked hard in the offseason. Cuban is a very smart guy that often does dumb things. Like letting Nash walk to the suns.

It took a while, but the karma for the role he played being petty about the Paul/Lakers trade finally came back to bite him. How about be competitive and trying to beat the team rather than being whiny about it?

 

[Ronin]

Mavericks GM Nico Harrison has 'no regrets' over Luka Dončić trade that's so far gone as poorly as expected

Harrison held a news conference on Tuesday in which attendance was limited and recording devices were prohibited.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Mavericks GM Nico Harrison has 'no regrets' over Luka Dončić trade that's so far gone as poorly as expected

Harrison held a news conference on Tuesday in which attendance was limited and recording devices were prohibited.

sports.yahoo.com

He is rightfully getting ripped by the national radio show hosts on Unsportsmanlike this morning.

By only agreeing to meet with a very limited, hand-selected number of Dallas media without cameras or recording devices allowed - he is not standing by what he did, he is just continuing the clown show. Why not meet with all of the media and answer some hard questions? SMH.

 

[1982baskets]

I watched the NBA Finals, and I think Nico is right about Luka. I don't think he will win a title as the team's best player and when he would go on to get that huge contract he'd even get less motivated to be great. The Dallas fandom was one where as long as Luka put up stats and they were entertaining they loved him. I think Nico saw that and wanted to change the culture to championships or bust. Failure. Hard work and dedication.

Culture wise you already see with AD he is going to make them bigger and more defensively talented while going hard even when he shouldn't. 2 years ago Luka and Kyrie missed the playoffs and play ins. It was not some team that was set to win 3 to 5 NBA championships. The team was pretty much the same. They had a great run last year but it ended up without a title. Then this year they were out of the playoffs 6 with Luka injured and Kyrie carrying the load. This was not a team playing very well even with Luka, this year. Now he's on his way to geting 300+ million while not cooperating with what the Dallas franchise wants from him defensively and with his work ethic.

The big mistake I see in this trade from Nico is the secondary assets to AD. Max Christie is a decent player, young. However you needed a point guard. You needed to get Reaves in the deal. The deal seems also a draft pick short. AD, Reaves, 2 picks. Or trade Max to a third team and get a point guard, use the pick as well. When you look at the Dallas team, they lost a great all time PG in Luka. They can't just make that up with AD and Kyrie. AD helps them on defense and certain scoring spots, Kyrie is great at being a secondary attaker but Kyrie won with Lebron as the primary attacker. At the very very least you needed to get some more help with playmaking and shooting. Even if Kyrie doesn't do the ACL, the team was not going to win a title without more playmaking guards.

Time will show how all this plays out, but while I understand why Nico traded Luka, he should have tried to get more secondary assets than AD. Of course the situation was such they wanted to stay away from any outside noise, to disrupt the trade. They didn't even inform Utah of the deal and they were helping. Shady stuff.

Lakers on their side, Luka gets to play off Lebron in the sense that Lebron is the one carrying all the pressure and load and managing their defense. It's a great situation for Luka, in contrast to Dallas where all the load was carried by him. That said, I will not be surprised if in 2 to 3 years, Laker fans are not happy with Luka. They are a bunch of entitled brats who think they should win a ring all the time. Let a few years pass and lets see what their take is on Luka then. Right now it's a complete love fest/honeymoon phase.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

3.6M views · 28K reactions | ESPN zooming in on Nico Harrison after AD airballs and gets injured | By Full Court | Facebook

ESPN zooming in on Nico Harrison after AD airballs and gets injured

www.facebook.com

 

[AzStevenCal]

I watched the NBA Finals, and I think Nico is right about Luka. I don't think he will win a title as the team's best player and when he would go on to get that huge contract he'd even get less motivated to be great. The Dallas fandom was one where as long as Luka put up stats and they were entertaining they loved him. I think Nico saw that and wanted to change the culture to championships or bust. Failure. Hard work and dedication.

Culture wise you already see with AD he is going to make them bigger and more defensively talented while going hard even when he shouldn't. 2 years ago Luka and Kyrie missed the playoffs and play ins. It was not some team that was set to win 3 to 5 NBA championships. The team was pretty much the same. They had a great run last year but it ended up without a title. Then this year they were out of the playoffs 6 with Luka injured and Kyrie carrying the load. This was not a team playing very well even with Luka, this year. Now he's on his way to geting 300+ million while not cooperating with what the Dallas franchise wants from him defensively and with his work ethic.

The big mistake I see in this trade from Nico is the secondary assets to AD. Max Christie is a decent player, young. However you needed a point guard. You needed to get Reaves in the deal. The deal seems also a draft pick short. AD, Reaves, 2 picks. Or trade Max to a third team and get a point guard, use the pick as well. When you look at the Dallas team, they lost a great all time PG in Luka. They can't just make that up with AD and Kyrie. AD helps them on defense and certain scoring spots, Kyrie is great at being a secondary attaker but Kyrie won with Lebron as the primary attacker. At the very very least you needed to get some more help with playmaking and shooting. Even if Kyrie doesn't do the ACL, the team was not going to win a title without more playmaking guards.

Time will show how all this plays out, but while I understand why Nico traded Luka, he should have tried to get more secondary assets than AD. Of course the situation was such they wanted to stay away from any outside noise, to disrupt the trade. They didn't even inform Utah of the deal and they were helping. Shady stuff.

Lakers on their side, Luka gets to play off Lebron in the sense that Lebron is the one carrying all the pressure and load and managing their defense. It's a great situation for Luka, in contrast to Dallas where all the load was carried by him. That said, I will not be surprised if in 2 to 3 years, Laker fans are not happy with Luka. They are a bunch of entitled brats who think they should win a ring all the time. Let a few years pass and lets see what their take is on Luka then. Right now it's a complete love fest/honeymoon phase.

I agree with much of this although not sure about the idea that he can't elevate a team to a title or that his next contract would make him even less motivated. It's quite possible that Dallas will turn out to be right about Luka's future but even then, this was just an absolutely horrible move on their part. If they wanted to trade him they should have been upfront about it so that they could open up the bidding.

Luka would have had open-the-vault level instant appeal to just about every other franchise and not just for what he can do as a player. I can see the value in sometimes keeping it quiet depending on the player and the situation but that doesn't make sense here. In my wildest dreams I would have never thought a 25 year old Luka could be traded so cheaply. I wouldn't even have traded Devin for that return and he's not close to the player Doncic is and he's not an international cash cow either.

 

[1982baskets]

^
The only explanation I have in all of that is that he wanted to help his buddy out. Robert Pelinka is a close friend of his. Now he's been extended, just read that today. He's been given title and a promotion. Plus a big fat extension. Befoe this trade, there was some heat gaining steam on Pelinka for always blaming the head coach. Now he's seen as Jerry West 2.0 at the moment for the Lakers fanbase. As I said, this is all honeymoon phase. Have to wait 2 to 3 years to see what the take on Luka is then.

I tend to side with Nico on this. Championships come when a mentality is there to win above and beyond the rest. Certainly when it's your leader and best player. Issue for Nico is he sent Luka to the one place where there was already a great leader and player that can do all that. So all Luka has to do is score, create and do his thing while Lebron shoulders the burden of the rest (leadership, talking to the team, running the offense when Luka gets cold, defensive communication). Unless the Lakers run into a team that can specifically exploit Luka and Reaves defensive shortcomings they very well could win a title.

As for the trade, I think Luka and AD are comparable players. The age is the real problem. The window is another. Clearly Dallas doesn't want to rebuild. So they traded for pieces they feel would give them a shot at winning in the present. Bad decision, most likely. The thing with holding an auction, they wouldn't have gotten an AD level player. They would have been forced to deal with Luka's agent and AD's agent would have likely blocked the deal. How these things play out, the team's agents get involved and I doubt Luka wanted to be in LA and no way AD wanted to be in Dallas. So both player's agents try to make the deal not happen. Same case for most other situations as Luka simply didn't want to be traded. Hold an auction now the agents are involved. Deal with your friend, you get the deal done without drama/long drawn out process.

Like say they want to rebuild. They can't even. They traded away picks in the Wahington and Gafford deals, I think. They traded for Kyrie. They traded for Klay. They have a roster that's like our Suns roster in the sense that it's built to compete now. (Only I like their roster better than ours, sadly, even post Luka trade). So if you trade Luka for a rebuild package (4 picks, lottery drafted young talent, starters) then you won't get AD. No team was going to give them an AD level player that can keep them competitive in the current window and then on top of it also give you 4 first round picks, young lottery talent.

I mean think back to the Dwight Howard trade in 2011. What did the Magic get? He was in his prime. Think back to the Anthony Davis trade even in 2019. Think back to Kevin Durant being traded to us. We didn't give up an all NBA player in those deals. You can't get an all-NBA player + 4 picks + young rookie contracted lottery level talent. You get the latter or the all-NBA level player. Not both.

I mean look at what Shaq yielded the Lakers back in 2004. The best player they got was Lamar Odom. When you trade superstars, you rarely get back equal value. Most of the time you're rebuilding. Even the Nets, they kind of killed us in the Durant trade. But they're now stuck in the deep lottery for years. The Mavs weren't in a situation with Kyrie and their roster to tank for 2-3 years with Luka traded.

 

[AzStevenCal]

^
The only explanation I have in all of that is that he wanted to help his buddy out. Robert Pelinka is a close friend of his. Now he's been extended, just read that today. He's been given title and a promotion. Plus a big fat extension. Befoe this trade, there was some heat gaining steam on Pelinka for always blaming the head coach. Now he's seen as Jerry West 2.0 at the moment for the Lakers fanbase. As I said, this is all honeymoon phase. Have to wait 2 to 3 years to see what the take on Luka is then.

I tend to side with Nico on this. Championships come when a mentality is there to win above and beyond the rest. Certainly when it's your leader and best player. Issue for Nico is he sent Luka to the one place where there was already a great leader and player that can do all that. So all Luka has to do is score, create and do his thing while Lebron shoulders the burden of the rest (leadership, talking to the team, running the offense when Luka gets cold, defensive communication). Unless the Lakers run into a team that can specifically exploit Luka and Reaves defensive shortcomings they very well could win a title.

As for the trade, I think Luka and AD are comparable players. The age is the real problem. The window is another. Clearly Dallas doesn't want to rebuild. So they traded for pieces they feel would give them a shot at winning in the present. Bad decision, most likely. The thing with holding an auction, they wouldn't have gotten an AD level player. They would have been forced to deal with Luka's agent and AD's agent would have likely blocked the deal. How these things play out, the team's agents get involved and I doubt Luka wanted to be in LA and no way AD wanted to be in Dallas. So both player's agents try to make the deal not happen. Same case for most other situations as Luka simply didn't want to be traded. Hold an auction now the agents are involved. Deal with your friend, you get the deal done without drama/long drawn out process.

Like say they want to rebuild. They can't even. They traded away picks in the Wahington and Gafford deals, I think. They traded for Kyrie. They traded for Klay. They have a roster that's like our Suns roster in the sense that it's built to compete now. (Only I like their roster better than ours, sadly, even post Luka trade). So if you trade Luka for a rebuild package (4 picks, lottery drafted young talent, starters) then you won't get AD. No team was going to give them an AD level player that can keep them competitive in the current window and then on top of it also give you 4 first round picks, young lottery talent.

I mean think back to the Dwight Howard trade in 2011. What did the Magic get? He was in his prime. Think back to the Anthony Davis trade even in 2019. Think back to Kevin Durant being traded to us. We didn't give up an all NBA player in those deals. You can't get an all-NBA player + 4 picks + young rookie contracted lottery level talent. You get the latter or the all-NBA level player. Not both.

I mean look at what Shaq yielded the Lakers back in 2004. The best player they got was Lamar Odom. When you trade superstars, you rarely get back equal value. Most of the time you're rebuilding. Even the Nets, they kind of killed us in the Durant trade. But they're now stuck in the deep lottery for years. The Mavs weren't in a situation with Kyrie and their roster to tank for 2-3 years with Luka traded.

None of that is relevant to my point. They left a lot of money on the table doing the deal this way. To my knowledge there's never been a player of Luka's age, performance and world-wide popularity to be voluntarily traded before he even reaches his likely peak. History might (MIGHT) make this trade look better if Luka mails it in because of his next contract or goes into decline early due to lack of conditioning/lifestyle but it won't change the fact that Nico intentionally chose to ignore the market.

 

[Hoop Head]

None of that is relevant to my point. They left a lot of money on the table doing the deal this way. To my knowledge there's never been a player of Luka's age, performance and world-wide popularity to be voluntarily traded before he even reaches his likely peak. History might (MIGHT) make this trade look better if Luka mails it in because of his next contract or goes into decline early due to lack of conditioning/lifestyle but it won't change the fact that Nico intentionally chose to ignore the market.

They left some money on the tablet and most definitely should have squeezed out every available pick in the deal, at least, but I largely agree with 1982baskets. I can see the reason for not opening the bidding considering the mess in Miami all season with Butler as sort of a cautionary tale. Butler killed a potential deal to Memphis and the last thing Dallas wanted was Luka pulling a power play where he gets picky and does something similar. Even worse for Dallas is if Luka decides to really phone it in until he's dealt and suffers an injury or he balloons up even more.

 

[swagron]

I watched the NBA Finals, and I think Nico is right about Luka. I don't think he will win a title as the team's best player and when he would go on to get that huge contract he'd even get less motivated to be great. The Dallas fandom was one where as long as Luka put up stats and they were entertaining they loved him. I think Nico saw that and wanted to change the culture to championships or bust. Failure. Hard work and dedication.

Culture wise you already see with AD he is going to make them bigger and more defensively talented while going hard even when he shouldn't. 2 years ago Luka and Kyrie missed the playoffs and play ins. It was not some team that was set to win 3 to 5 NBA championships. The team was pretty much the same. They had a great run last year but it ended up without a title. Then this year they were out of the playoffs 6 with Luka injured and Kyrie carrying the load. This was not a team playing very well even with Luka, this year. Now he's on his way to geting 300+ million while not cooperating with what the Dallas franchise wants from him defensively and with his work ethic.

The big mistake I see in this trade from Nico is the secondary assets to AD. Max Christie is a decent player, young. However you needed a point guard. You needed to get Reaves in the deal. The deal seems also a draft pick short. AD, Reaves, 2 picks. Or trade Max to a third team and get a point guard, use the pick as well. When you look at the Dallas team, they lost a great all time PG in Luka. They can't just make that up with AD and Kyrie. AD helps them on defense and certain scoring spots, Kyrie is great at being a secondary attaker but Kyrie won with Lebron as the primary attacker. At the very very least you needed to get some more help with playmaking and shooting. Even if Kyrie doesn't do the ACL, the team was not going to win a title without more playmaking guards.

Time will show how all this plays out, but while I understand why Nico traded Luka, he should have tried to get more secondary assets than AD. Of course the situation was such they wanted to stay away from any outside noise, to disrupt the trade. They didn't even inform Utah of the deal and they were helping. Shady stuff.

Lakers on their side, Luka gets to play off Lebron in the sense that Lebron is the one carrying all the pressure and load and managing their defense. It's a great situation for Luka, in contrast to Dallas where all the load was carried by him. That said, I will not be surprised if in 2 to 3 years, Laker fans are not happy with Luka. They are a bunch of entitled brats who think they should win a ring all the time. Let a few years pass and let’s see what their take is on Luka then. Right now it's a complete love fest/honeymoon phase.

There is a honeymoon phase with every player and every city on a new team. Most fans thought KD was the best thing since sliced bread when he arrived. Multiple championships. After a couple of years you see the good and bad in a player. Luka is no different. There are Laker fans that hate on LeBron no matter what he does, as great as he is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They left some money on the tablet and most definitely should have squeezed out every available pick in the deal, at least, but I largely agree with 1982baskets. I can see the reason for not opening the bidding considering the mess in Miami all season with Butler as sort of a cautionary tale. Butler killed a potential deal to Memphis and the last thing Dallas wanted was Luka pulling a power play where he gets picky and does something similar. Even worse for Dallas is if Luka decides to really phone it in until he's dealt and suffers an injury or he balloons up even more.

It's a player's league so sure, there are risks. But do you expect this to start a trend where teams sell low to avoid issues? I sure don't. This was a ridiculous move by Dallas - not necessarily the decision to trade him, I can't weigh in on that. But in a league where everything has to do with a player's market value not using that market to maximize your returns was shortsighted. Nico knew the deal would get squashed by ownership when the fans learned of it.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's a player's league so sure, there are risks. But do you expect this to start a trend where teams sell low to avoid issues? I sure don't. This was a ridiculous move by Dallas - not necessarily the decision to trade him, I can't weigh in on that. But in a league where everything has to do with a player's market value not using that market to maximize your returns was shortsighted. Nico knew the deal would get squashed by ownership when the fans learned of it.

I agree in part. I don't see this being a long term issue but I think there was enough happening at the time of the deal for the Mavs to play it safe. Nico was duped, no two ways about it and he did get a lesser return but the deal still had the potential to pan out for Dallas in the now if Kyrie and AD stay healthy. I said it when it happened and still believe it kept Dallas chances to compete high, maybe even raised them in the short term. It wasn't all that different than the KD deal. They paid a steep price for what they wanted without properly valuing what they gave up. AD on that Dallas roster made them more dangerous in the playoffs and they thought Kyrie having the ball more wouldn't lower their offense much.

I think the Suns misery currently has led a lot of us to be too invested in this deal as it involved the one who got away, Luka, ending up in the place where he'll haunt us even more.

 

[Lorenzo]

I agree in part. I don't see this being a long term issue but I think there was enough happening at the time of the deal for the Mavs to play it safe. Nico was duped, no two ways about it and he did get a lesser return but the deal still had the potential to pan out for Dallas in the now if Kyrie and AD stay healthy. I said it when it happened and still believe it kept Dallas chances to compete high, maybe even raised them in the short term. It wasn't all that different than the KD deal. They paid a steep price for what they wanted without properly valuing what they gave up. AD on that Dallas roster made them more dangerous in the playoffs and they thought Kyrie having the ball more wouldn't lower their offense much.

I think the Suns misery currently has led a lot of us to be too invested in this deal as it involved the one who got away, Luka, ending up in the place where he'll haunt us even more.

the mavericks playoff hopes were dead the night that it was announced. dallas never had a chance to do anything afterward. maybe if everyone stayed healthy they lose in the first round of the playoffs, opposed to getting embarrassed by Memphis.

 

[Hoop Head]

the mavericks playoff hopes were dead the night that it was announced. dallas never had a chance to do anything afterward. maybe if everyone stayed healthy they lose in the first round of the playoffs, opposed to getting embarrassed by Memphis.

They were headed to the playoffs before Kyrie and AD got hurt. They ended up being short handed in the play in as the 10 seed. To say the season ends the same way is ignoring the plethora of health issues they suffered throughout February, March, and April.

 

[Phrazbit]

the mavericks playoff hopes were dead the night that it was announced. dallas never had a chance to do anything afterward. maybe if everyone stayed healthy they lose in the first round of the playoffs, opposed to getting embarrassed by Memphis.

I'm sorry man, you're a good fan and that is a brutal trade.

While I think the Durant trade was far more damaging to the Suns (we're toast for ages and gained absolutely nothing) than the Luka trade was for Dallas (you still have tradable assets and most of your future picks), the Luka trade was far stupider. I hated the Durant trade because of the insane level of risk it entailed with a very low chance of reward, but at least there was an remote chance. The Luka trade comes off as the Mavs deliberately screwing themselves over because they decided to despise their star player.

 

[Phrazbit]

They were headed to the playoffs before Kyrie and AD got hurt. They ended up being short handed in the play in as the 10 seed. To say the season ends the same way is ignoring the plethora of health issues they suffered throughout February, March, and April.

They were headed to the playoffs before they made the trade.

Injuries are not an excuse when you trade for Anthony Davis, who was hurt when the trade was made and then instantly re-injured himself upon return. Kyrie is no iron man either.

They traded Luka, a top 5 player in the league, who has durability questions, for a far inferior player with even bigger durability questions.

They might be right about Luka being semi-toxic and so defensively inept that winning a title with him would be a real struggle, but he's still a superstar who hasn't even entered his prime and they dumped him for a far inferior, oft injured, older, player and some piddley trash.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

The Mavs were eliminated from the playoffs exactly 77 days after trading Luka.