Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

[Pariah]

Portis is as good as gone.

Bronco fans and the Bronco media here in Denver are making excuses already (from what I've heard on the radio and around the water-cooler):
~Portis isn't durable enough to last in the NFL
~His antics and mouth were getting old anyway
~RB vs. CB career-lengths alone make the trade worthwhile
~They need a super-star cover corner more than a super-star RB

and, the kiss of death:
~We can plug anybody into Shanny's system and make him into an all-pro RB

Bronco fans turn the largest blind-eye I've ever seen to things like this. Here's why I think the Broncos won't even sniff the playoffs next year:

~Jake Plummer: Can he carry an entire team on his shoulders? No. The reason he was supposed to be successful in Denver is because he had a supporting cast. Now, who's there to support him?
~Something's rotten in Denver: Mike Anderson wants out. Portis is on the way out. Al Wilson has until 2:00 to accept a contract or he's going to get the franchise tag (probably will get tagged). Why do these players no longer want to be in Denver?
~Alex Gibbs: He's the reason the Bronco RBs are interchangable in that offense. It's the blocking schemes with light, mobile blockers. So, what's the problem you ask? he's not there anymore. In fact, there's talk about cutting one of the guards so they can save some cap money and start their bohemoth first round pick this year.

 

[ds512az]

I heard on the radio today that now that Gibbs is gone all the O linemen seem to be clamoring to change positions on the line.....

 

[denverbirdfan]

it is pretty funny, isn't it?

what, is quenton griffin gonna run for 1500 next year?
time for jake to start throwing alot - you know what that means!

 

[Assface]

Originally posted by denverbirdfan
time for jake to start throwing alot - you know what that means!

A lot of divits 7 yards from the line of scrimmage?

 

[CardLogic]

Originally posted by Assface
A lot of divits 7 yards from the line of scrimmage?

 

[Lex]

Oh oh. If Portis is gone, and Jake is STILL in the top 5 quarterbacks in the league, and Jake STILL takes them to the playoffs ... what the excuse going to be then?

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Lex
Oh oh. If Portis is gone, and Jake is STILL in the top 5 quarterbacks in the league, and Jake STILL takes them to the playoffs ... what the excuse going to be then?

Divine intervention.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Originally posted by Pariah


and, the kiss of death:
~We can plug anybody into Shanny's system and make him into an all-pro RB

Well, no offense, but it seems like ANY running back they do put in there runs like an all-pro...

Davis, Anderson, Portis, Griffin...

I am more wondering how effective Portis will be in Washington, without the system he had in Denver.

Mike

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Lex
Oh oh. If Portis is gone, and Jake is STILL in the top 5 quarterbacks in the league, and Jake STILL takes them to the playoffs ... what the excuse going to be then?

What excuse? He had a good year. But as a team they will have considerable drop-off w/o Portis. Including Jake!

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by Chandler Mike
Well, no offense, but it seems like ANY running back they do put in there runs like an all-pro...

Davis, Anderson, Portis, Griffin...

I am more wondering how effective Portis will be in Washington, without the system he had in Denver.

Mike

Right. In the past that's been true--but it's my assertion that Gibbs is the reason why. If memory serves, he stopped coaching the line for about half a season a couple of years ago and they couldn't do anything significant on the ground for those few games. (I don't have the stats to back that up, though).

 

[Lex]

LVCARDFREAK-

Glad to see you commit. Last year, Jake was only good because of Portis, everyone said.

Now if he's gone, Jake should suck, according to everyone here.

My question was, what if he doesn't?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Lex
LVCARDFREAK-

Glad to see you commit. Last year, Jake was only good because of Portis, everyone said.

Now if he's gone, Jake should suck, according to everyone here.

My question was, what if he doesn't?

I dont think Jake had a good year b/c of Portis entirely but any blind man could see Portis (or better yet, a running game. If they can plug Anderson, Griffin, whomeever in there and be as productive) helped the team immensley and thus Jake Plummer as well.

I dont think you see the stats he had this year with only an average running game. Hell that was proven in AZ for years.

To answer your question more directly, if Portis is gone and no running back steps up, then yes Jake should revert back to his old self, if a runningback steps up then I see no reason why he cant have te same type of year.

I dont think it was Portis as much as a back being able to carry the load like Portis.

 

[Gee!]

Originally posted by Pariah
Bronco fans turn the largest blind-eye I've ever seen to things like this.

Try living in Denver. I lived there for a year and a half and had this nonsense shoved down my throat each and everyday. And dont even think of reading about another team unless they play against the team you like. Whenever a season starts the media proclaims they will win the championship, doesnt matter what sport. I lived there when the Nuggets would average 20 wins, yet were so sure they would win it all. Anyway, I moved my happy ass back to PHX pronto, first chance.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Jake was 2-0 w/o Portis, including winning in Indy. Portis was 1-3 w/o Jake.

The only guy moving on the line is Lepsis to LT from RT so they can put last year's 1st round pick, George Foster into the lineup.

Anderson wants out b/c he won't take a paycut. He's 30, has bad shoulders, and is one positive test away from a year long suspension. He hasn't done much in the last two seasons.

Portis doesn't want out, Portis wants to get paid. It doesn't matter who does it. If Denver will, he's happy. If Denver won't and he's traded to someone who does, he's happy.

When Gibbs left they still would have had a 1400 yd starter that season if they had one guy healthy for the entire season. TD and Anderson combined for over 1400 yds when they split their starts, and neither got carries the games they didn't start.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by SameOleGee
Try living in Denver. I lived there for a year and a half and had this nonsense shoved down my throat each and everyday. And dont even think of reading about another team unless they play against the team you like.

No NFL cities media outlets care about any other cities' teams.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by SameOleGee
Try living in Denver. I lived there for a year and a half and had this nonsense shoved down my throat each and everyday. And dont even think of reading about another team unless they play against the team you like. Whenever a season starts the media proclaims they will win the championship, doesnt matter what sport. I lived there when the Nuggets would average 20 wins, yet were so sure they would win it all. Anyway, I moved my happy ass back to PHX pronto, first chance.

I do live in denver--and love it. I was raised here. The only problem I see with this city is that it's filled with Bronco fans.

 

[CardsFan88]

Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by SameOleGee
Try living in Denver. I lived there for a year and a half and had this nonsense shoved down my throat each and everyday. And dont even think of reading about another team unless they play against the team you like. Whenever a season starts the media proclaims they will win the championship, doesnt matter what sport. I lived there when the Nuggets would average 20 wins, yet were so sure they would win it all. Anyway, I moved my happy ass back to PHX pronto, first chance.

Isn't that the attitude where everyones booing Kobe bryant, yet the reports are the NUGGETS want to sign him?

Personally, IF the broncos non-gibbs coached line falters a bit, if they cut one of their starters as I read above, if portis is gone, and no one steps up...or I should say steps up for 1100 yds, but not 1500 in 12 games....plus another year of age for R.smith, and Mccafferey, AND (Is shannon sharpe coming back??? did he decide whether or not he is???)

If all the above happen, or even most.....it WILL put more pressure on plummer.

If all of those things happen, then the broncos offense sans plummer is slightly worse-slightly better than what Jake had here. A 3200yd 17 td 18 int season would be what I expect if this happens. And I still haven't seen anything from him to think he couldn't go in the tank. His weaknesses were hidden through good game planning for plummers strengths/weaknesses and a good offense.

If the offense is mediocre, then plummers strengths won't be able to be as effective and his weaknesses will come out more. I still saw plenty of 'bonehead' plays by him last year. If broncos start out 3-0 or so, then plummer can settle in and have a decent season, if they start 1-2 plummer will press. I firmly believe one of the reasons why he was a little more restrained in his gunslinging ways and more successful was the fact they started out like 5-0 and all plummer had to do was hand off to portis for 150 yd or so games, and pass to WIDE OPEN receivers, namely shannon sharpe being open by 15 yards about twice a game.

He NEVER had that much going for him here, and quite frankly I thought it was pretty lucky he had players which did this on the field for him.

If you see how much could be potentially taken away from that offense this year, I think those type of plays of being wide open big time and 150 yd games will not come as often, and thus plummer will press more, and a snowball effect will occur....how much will it snowball...I don't know, but I think right now the broncos offense is in a state where the baseball sized snowball is being formed and they're at the top of the mountain.

IF broncos fans are thinking....they can put anyone in there, they really are delusional or overconfident or complacent....The coach is gone which created that system. Can they run it without him, yes. Are they going to, probably. Will it be as good, probably not. And every year later it will get worse w/o the 'guru'.

However it affects them this year, each subsequent year will be worse imo. Those days of plugging in a rb and doing good aren't a birthright, and had much to do with having some good luck, and I think relatively speaking they're in for a rude awakening. This year maybe, but soon definitely.

If plummer puts up the same numbers this year, I'd be shocked. Even then they weren't Manning type numbers. Of course no one would expect that, but Plummer had as good of a situation as I've ever seen a qb have with talent around him and catching the breaks and he did fairly well. I just feel that if Plummer isn't in the ideal situation, then he isn't the ideal qb. Good qb's get it done with lesser talent, plummer has shown us he can't do that. Some medicore qb as I think plummer is, can show flashes of greatness when in the ideal situation...which is what happened last year. But this year will be another beast, and it probably won't be the ideal situation for him, and thus I believe he will show the NFL he isn't an ideal qb. He'll be decent, but barring some coup in free agency or draft his 2004 season outlook should be brought down a notch.

Is shannon sharpe coming back?

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by Rolling Thunder
No NFL cities media outlets care about any other cities' teams.

Ha. Try living in Phoenix.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by CardsFan88
Is shannon sharpe coming back?

It's still up in the air. My gut feeling is that the aura surrounding Dove Valley isn't what is used to be, and that maybe Sharpe gets out sooner rather than later. But, he hasn't made an official statement one way or the other.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Lex
Now if he's gone, Jake should suck, according to everyone here.

No that isn't true (with a couple of exceptions, most here don't think Jake sucks.

It would be more accurate to say that most think he will break your heart. He has days, months even season that amaze you, then he has a run of sucking. Sometimes he mingles the two.

Basicly he is unpredictable, can be good, can suck and you never know which Jake will show up or why.

 

[Lex]

I beg to differ Nidan-

When Jake left, 90% of posters here said Jeff Blake was an upgrade over Jake. They said Jake would be a career backup. You know it's true.

The only Jake that shows up, is the one who's constantly competing, trying to win at all costs. I can't blame him for that, and I do blame a lot of Cardinal fans for badmouthing a guy that clearly was not at fault for our problems.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Lex
I do blame a lot of Cardinal fans for badmouthing a guy that clearly was not at fault for our problems.

WHAT???

What games were you watching?

He wasnt at fault by throwing more int's than td's?

He wasnt at fault by throwing 1st quarter int's that put this team in the hole constantly?


I am not gonna get into this debate as it has been hashed rehashed before, but come on to make a statement like that is ridiculous.

And by the way, Blake, accoridng to career numbers WAS an upgrade over Plummer.

 

[Pariah]

I'll still say that Jake was PART of the problem here in AZ. And, I'll still say that Jake is the best backup QB in the NFL--his gunsliging style and confidence is better suited for a backup than a starter, IMO.

I like the guy. I was happy (for him) to see him do wall last year. But I don't think he's as good as he played last year due to Denver's system (which, in large part was successful because of Portis and Gibbs), nor do I think he was as bad as he very often was with the Cardinals.

I've never waivered on this stance. Denver's offense will be a very different beast next year, IMO, and Jake will have to step up.

If he does, good for him; I just don't think he will. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. But, just so you know, I didn't start this thread to bag on Jake, I just don't like the Broncos and I think they're making a huge mistake in getting rid of Portis, and I think it's hillarious that Bronco fans are claiming they don't want him anyway.

 

[Sandan]

Originally posted by Lex
The only Jake that shows up, is the one who's constantly competing, trying to win at all costs. I can't blame him for that, and I do blame a lot of Cardinal fans for badmouthing a guy that clearly was not at fault for our problems.

I tried to be nice and polite and suggest a reasonable compromise but you won't have it will you.

Nobody ever suggested that Jake was THE cause of our problems. Jake, however clearly was ONE of our problems.

Yes, he was always trying to win, but freqently that required him disengaging the brain first, I for one will never forget the attempt to pass behind his back. For a 6 year vet that was inexcusable. However, sometimes in the chaos he was amazing,

Why can't you get it. You trivialize my (and others) comments, by saying we think all the problems were Jake's fault. By trivalizing them it makes it easier for you to shoot them down. The reality is more complex.

To paraprhase your words, "It clearly wasn't Jake's fault he threw that pass behind his back". Just how do you substantiate your "clearly" ? To me Jake was "clearly" part (not all) of the problem.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Donkeys: A World of Hurt (slightly OT)

Originally posted by Pariah
It's still up in the air. My gut feeling is that the aura surrounding Dove Valley isn't what is used to be, and that maybe Sharpe gets out sooner rather than later. But, he hasn't made an official statement one way or the other.

I disagree. Shannon knows the TV deals will always be there, he's still one of the best TEs in the league and he knows it. He'll be back this season.