Dow plunging

[conraddobler]

Perhaps being missed in all this is the fact that the market was plunging today all on its own. The Greek crisis, when coupled with the news coming out of Washington about the breakup of the TBTF's, was far more of a culprit than anything being posed on CNBC. I for one added to my FAZ (3X short financial) position about 20 minutes prior to the meltdown based upon the Washington news alone - who knows how many traders out there were thinking the same exact thing?

When the market went to -500 down, I have to say that I wasn't too surprised. And if it drops 500 tomorrow, I won't be shocked either. (VIX futures right now are predicting a lowered opening for Friday).

There was a rumor out there at the same time the market cratered, that the European Banks were closing their lending desks because of a liquidity issue. This is exactly what happened just prior to Lehman going TU.

Because it was late at night, these rumors were not confirmed, but it is safe to say that there is more than meets the eye here.

And one cannot discount that the computers at the PPT saw what was going down, and immediately jumped in and started buying, too. And if they did, then a "fat-fingered rogue trader" would be exactly the kind of story they would float out there to cover it up.

That being said, The April UE #'s are due out before the opening, and a good print here could help to offset all the current negativity. But as for myself, if the market heads up tomorrow, I'll probably just take this as an opportunity to add to my shorts.

As usual, this isn't advice, just an observation.

JTS

If Jesse Livermore were alive today he'd be rocketing up the wealth charts, I figure he'd pass Warren and bitch slap him on the way by then later on after it calmed back down he'd lose it all back.

This is a golden age of trading, but we're nearing the portion of the journey that ends the big gain possibilities IMO.

One thing I'm keeping an eye on is the PPT, I think they're actually MIA, in fact I'd almost bet they're all smoking cigs watching certain buddies get rich.

If they exist and they do mess with the market they should show up today, we've had 3 down days in a row, today would be the fourth in a row if it holds and the dreaded Friday close negative here could setup some interesting stuff on Monday.

If the PPT is real and really cares about the market they should be on duty today.

I bet they don't really care, in fact I bet this time they are MIA on purpose but that's JMO, not trading advice.

 

[Russ Smith]

Today is pretty volatile too. Dow was down 200, leveled off to 150. Obama talked up the unemployment numbers which were good in that jobs were added but unemployment still went up. DOW rallied all the way back to positive in about 10 minutes. And now DOW is back down 117 and has been down as much as 150. I think people absorbed the numbers and realized Obama's speech was way too positive when the rate went up from 9.7 to 9.9(because people who had given up decided to start looking again). Add in the fact that much of the added jobs are short term government jobs and I think once people had time to listen to an expert explain the numbers, they returned to selling stocks.

Right now they seem to have concluded that a significant portion of yesterday odd trades occurred in Chicago, they haven't totally isolated where and how much there are rumors the so called billion instead of million trade happened there, but they haven't tracked it down yet.

I have to say any faith I had in the checks and balances of the system went out the window. It's been essentially 21 hours since this trading "glitch" occurred. The fact that they still aren't sure what caused a 700 point drop in 15 minutes tells me there are no checks and balances in the system that actually work.

 

[DWKB]

Today is pretty volatile too. Dow was down 200, leveled off to 150. Obama talked up the unemployment numbers which were good in that jobs were added but unemployment still went up. DOW rallied all the way back to positive in about 10 minutes. And now DOW is back down 117 and has been down as much as 150. I think people absorbed the numbers and realized Obama's speech was way too positive when the rate went up from 9.7 to 9.9(because people who had given up decided to start looking again). Add in the fact that much of the added jobs are short term government jobs and I think once people had time to listen to an expert explain the numbers, they returned to selling stocks.

Right now they seem to have concluded that a significant portion of yesterday odd trades occurred in Chicago, they haven't totally isolated where and how much there are rumors the so called billion instead of million trade happened there, but they haven't tracked it down yet.

I have to say any faith I had in the checks and balances of the system went out the window. It's been essentially 21 hours since this trading "glitch" occurred. The fact that they still aren't sure what caused a 700 point drop in 15 minutes tells me there are no checks and balances in the system that actually work.

I think this abnormality really puts a spotlight on potential cyber terrorism. Not that this was the cause, but that this exposed holes that could be used in the future. Devastating holes.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think this abnormality really puts a spotlight on potential cyber terrorism. Not that this was the cause, but that this exposed holes that could be used in the future. Devastating holes.

Exactly, if they still don't know what happened now, they can't prevent it from happening again, intentionally.

 

[AzCards21]

Exactly, if they still don't know what happened now, they can't prevent it from happening again, intentionally.

Or they do know but are hoping people just stop asking.

 

[conraddobler]

IMO what happened is pretty simple, computers locked up on no bid.

No one wanted to buy but the computers wanted to sell, so they drove the prices into the dirt.

60 to 70 percent of the volume on Wall Street is controlled by computers and not by humans, the humans monitor but they obviously can't stop them in time.

IMO most of the trading volume on the exchanges is a fraud, a sham, high frequency shams that create trading profits out of thin air.

It'll happen again IMO, it wasn't some mistake, that's bogus, Citi now even says so.

http://www.minyanville.com/business...trader-billions-million-b-m/5/6/2010/id/28160

See the very last line, it's very very hard to find the denial story because it was all BS to begin with IMO.

So we're expected to believe that someone has the ability to trade billions?

Horsecrap, no one has that kind of authorization, the system would never enter that trade just because a B and an M were exchanged or that crap would happen nearly every week.

BS BS BS BS BS BS.

Double BS.

 

[D-Dogg]

About 3 weeks ago I shifted 50% of my 401k into a PIMCO Total Return fund... GLAD I did that... it was actually up a few pennies today!

Heh, I'm in the same fund with the 10% of my 401K not allowed into the SDA of the rest. Moved it all over as the VIX started getting itchy.

Dropped out of all our stock a week or so ago after profit making was clearly over, and the technicals were pointing toward a downturn and now have cash sitting on the sidelines.

Waiting for the bounce off of this correction (there will be one) to buy back in for the ride up to I'm guessing 14000...then there will be a WILD downturn to test the bottom of 6 or 7K again.

Play smart, fellas. I only buy fundamentally sound companies, growing at a high rate across several areas, and only when they are undervalued. I'm loving this from a trader perspective; hating it from an inevitable collapse on the horizon perspective.

 

[Yuma]

I actually have about 40% in cash right now or I'd be down quite a bit more today.

I am 100% cash since a couple months ago. I hate to be a vulture, but I am waiting for the market to dump some more! I am going to jump in and buy more when/if it drops more. Some stocks I am watching went down 11% just this week! Yipppeeee!

 

[Yuma]

Heh, I'm in the same fund with the 10% of my 401K not allowed into the SDA of the rest. Moved it all over as the VIX started getting itchy.

Dropped out of all our stock a week or so ago after profit making was clearly over, and the technicals were pointing toward a downturn and now have cash sitting on the sidelines.

Waiting for the bounce off of this correction (there will be one) to buy back in for the ride up to I'm guessing 14000...then there will be a WILD downturn to test the bottom of 6 or 7K again.

Play smart, fellas. I only buy fundamentally sound companies, growing at a high rate across several areas, and only when they are undervalued. I'm loving this from a trader perspective; hating it from an inevitable collapse on the horizon perspective.

While I value invest like you, I am not sure we are going to have a big drop off in the future. People ALWAYS invest. In my life, it seems like people just move money around to where it's safest or biggest return. Going forward our economy may stink, but it my stink less than elsewhere, so money could still flow into the stock market. Gold looks good, BUT there are rumors of these troubled European economies and banks dumping their gold now that it hit $1200 an ounce, and that could trounce that market. I remember when Russia did this back in the nineties. Whatever looks like a decent return with the least risk compared to other investments is where people will move their money. Right now currency trading will be hot in the next couple of weeks.

 

[D-Dogg]

I am 100% cash since a couple months ago. I hate to be a vulture, but I am waiting for the market to dump some more! I am going to jump in and buy more when/if it drops more. Some stocks I am watching went down 11% just this week! Yipppeeee!

Winning attitude.

People who say Yipppeeee to a 10 percent or more drop are people destined to profit long term in the markets.

 

[conraddobler]

Winning attitude.

People who say Yipppeeee to a 10 percent or more drop are people destined to profit long term in the markets.

Actually your entire investment thesis and world is built upon the fiat currency fraud we've lived with for almost 100 years.

You have to invest in something because the money is constantly losing value and businesses by and large grow in value.

So it's just a method of exiting the currency scam we're all living under and it works very well most of the time.

However what we're going through now is unprecedented and I don't think things are going to work exactly as some people plan.

 

[Yuma]

Actually your entire investment thesis and world is built upon the fiat currency fraud we've lived with for almost 100 years.

You have to invest in something because the money is constantly losing value and businesses by and large grow in value.

So it's just a method of exiting the currency scam we're all living under and it works very well most of the time.

However what we're going through now is unprecedented and I don't think things are going to work exactly as some people plan.

I think you can make money now, but I think long term investing is out the window. For example, I bought Goldman Sachs last year, and it went up big. I got out at the beginning of the year, and now Washington is bashing them big time! I think you invest, grab a profit, and get out. Not day trading, but I used to invest for a 20 to 30 year time line. Now, who knows if a company, even a big one like Lehaman Brothers or Bear Sterns will even be around in 20 to 30 years? With all the uncertainty, get profits and have lots of cash on the sidelines. I think the watch word is "Don't be afraid to cash out!"