Draft Watch: Trade talk heating up

[Evil Ash]

I'd do both trades in a heartbeat. We get a TRUE PG (Jack over Barbosa) to back-up Nash without having to draft one, plus we get another 3pt shooter to replace the one we are shipping out (Webster for Diaw), plu s we get 2 more mid 1st rnd picks.

Yes, we lose our MAIN back-up big, however, with those picks we can grab another big or 2 plus another wing. The bigs have been working out and pining to move up in the draft as it is.

If we are able to do both trades, I'd love to see the Suns get at least one wing (Rush, Greene, Alexander) and at least one big (Spieghts, Thompson, Hickson, R. Lopez, Ajinca, Koufos).

If they keep all 3 1sts, I wouldn't mind taking Batum with one of them and keeping him overseas for a year.

The proposed deals are Barbosa to Portland for Webster + #13 pick + filler and the other deal is Diaw to Toronto for Ford + #17 pick + filler.

 

[Joe Mama]

If I was sure I could get Augustine at #13 I might throw caution to the wind and make the Barbosa deal. However I doubt he's there at 13. I know it seems like I have a love affair with Diaw, but believe me he's been frustrating me as well over the last couple years. I do think he'll be better next year under Porter, and I don't think I would want TJ Ford unless we were giving up next to nothing. Even if he could shoot outside 15 feet I'd be afraid to get him with three years at $8,000,000 per remaining. The guy is perpetually injured. It's nice to have young guys, but we want players who will actually be on the court consistently.

As usual I think we are under rating the players we have and overreaching other teams players and especially draft picks.

Joe

 

[Bigdez22]

I would do both of them

Draft Jordan, Speights, and rush or green


use the ML on a good wing


Nash/Ford
Bell/Rush/DJ
Hill/ml/Webster/Tucker
Stat/Speights
Shaq/Jordan

That looks good to me. I think this is a great draft and i think the suns do to. If you could add Ford, Webster and 2 picks for LB and Diaw.....I would do it......Looking at that again.....We would have the most athletic front court in the history of the NBA.

 

[Evil Ash]

I would do both of them

Draft Jordan, Speights, and rush or green


use the ML on a good wing


Nash/Ford
Bell/Rush/DJ
Hill/ml/Webster/Tucker
Stat/Speights
Shaq/Jordan

That looks good to me. I think this is a great draft and i think the suns do to. If you could add Ford, Webster and 2 picks for LB and Diaw.....I would do it......Looking at that again.....We would have the most athletic front court in the history of the NBA.

I believe our MLE would have to be used on the draft picks. If we signed anyone else it would have to be a vet min deal since we are over the cap

 

[Evil Ash]

If I was sure I could get Augustine at #13 I might throw caution to the wind and make the Barbosa deal. However I doubt he's there at 13. I know it seems like I have a love affair with Diaw, but believe me he's been frustrating me as well over the last couple years. I do think he'll be better next year under Porter, and I don't think I would want TJ Ford unless we were giving up next to nothing. Even if he could shoot outside 15 feet I'd be afraid to get him with three years at $8,000,000 per remaining. The guy is perpetually injured. It's nice to have young guys, but we want players who will actually be on the court consistently.

As usual I think we are under rating the players we have and overreaching other teams players and especially draft picks.

Joe

I agree with this for the most part. I think I would be in favor of the Barbosa deal if the filler in the deal is one of their PG prospects like Jack (which kinda makes sense since they have so many PG prospects and adding Barbosa without removing one would kinda be overkill).

The Diaw deal relies heavily on how the Suns training staff feels on Ford's health. They've proven they can work wonders with guys like Shaq, Nash, and Hill. Like I said earlier with the reports that Toronto wants to trade up this whole discussion may be moot anyways.

There are positives and negatives to both trade proposals.

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns trade Barbosa and/or Diaw for inexperienced players or picks Shaq will turn into a turtle again and this team will implode.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I believe our MLE would have to be used on the draft picks. If we signed anyone else it would have to be a vet min deal since we are over the cap

????????????

The point of the MLE is to be able to sign a player even if you are over the cap.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Trade Diaw for Artest. Do the Portland deal. Combine the two picks to move up and get Westbrook or Rush.

Robin Lopez looks like a hustle dirt-worker to me. I think I would rather take him in the late 1st than his brother at 10 or so.

 

[Evil Ash]

????????????

The point of the MLE is to be able to sign a player even if you are over the cap.

Like I said I think it would have to used to sign draft picks since they are over the cap. You have to be able to sign your rookies also and the only for a team that is over the cap to do so is with the exceptions that are available.

I'm likely wrong about this since I'm often confused as it comes to the NBA's CBA. So take it for what its worth

 

[JCSunsfan]

Like I said I think it would have to used to sign draft picks since they are over the cap. You have to be able to sign your rookies also and the only for a team that is over the cap to do so is with the exceptions that are available.

I'm likely wrong about this since I'm often confused as it comes to the NBA's CBA. So take it for what its worth

Exceptions are never used to sign a team's own drafted rookies as far as I know. Your rookie salaries do count against the cap number so you cannot sign FA's and then go over your cap # to sign your draftees. ANyway, the point is this.

The Suns could use the MLE if they desire. But, it will cost them double the value of any contract offered since they will be over the lux tax limit.

 

[Evil Ash]

Exceptions are never used to sign a team's own drafted rookies as far as I know. Your rookie salaries do count against the cap number so you cannot sign FA's and then go over your cap # to sign your draftees. ANyway, the point is this.

The Suns could use the MLE if they desire. But, it will cost them double the value of any contract offered since they will be over the lux tax limit.

Well I stand corrected. Not the first time I've been wrong and it sure won't be the last.

Thanks for the info

 

[okhoops]

Just Say No to TJ

Along with the obvious health concerns, TJ was a complete cancer when he was forced to the bench with Calderon's play. How happy is he going to be to sit behind Nash, playing 20-25 minutes a game. He's too small and too poor a defender to play with Nash in a two-PG role. He doesn't shoot the three-ball either. He can score in bunches and--albeit inconsistently--distribute the ball. Just say no to TJ.

 

[jlove]

The proposed deals are Barbosa to Portland for Webster + #13 pick + filler and the other deal is Diaw to Toronto for Ford + #17 pick + filler.

I understand that. If you combine both deals, the Suns get Ford, Webster plus picks for Diaw and Barbosa. Which in turn you can say that we get a better true PG to run this team in Ford over Barbosa. Ford isn't a real scorer like Barbosa is, but he is a way better passer and defender. Also, Webster is the 3 pt shooter that we lose in Barbosa, plus he fills the 3 spot better than Diaw does. We lose a big in Diaw, but with the extra 2 first round picks we have the flexibility to go after 3 bigs rather than having to go after a 1,2 or 3 since we'll have:
Nash/Ford
Bell/Strawberry
Hill/Webster/Tucker

With those filling the 1-3 spots (plus Strawberry can play the 1 as well, and Webster and Tucker can play the 2.

If we do both trades AND keep all 3 picks, we can grab 3 bigs (2 that can play the 4-5 and 1 that can play the 3-4 positions. Gives the Suns more flexibility within the roster for line-ups and more depth and youth. A guy that can play the 3-4 ala Greene/Batum and 2 guys that can play the 4-5 ala Speights, Thompson, Hickson, Jordan, Arthur, Koufos, McGee, R. Lopez, Ibaka, Ajinca, Jawai.

That would give us:
Nash/Ford
Bell/Webster/Strawberry
Hill/Tucker/DRAFT PICK
Amare/DRAFT PICK
Shaq/DRAFT PICK

with that I would still try and get Skinner back, that way we would have 5 players rotating at the 4-5.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Ford is actually a pretty solid scorer and can slash to the basket very well.

 

[HooverDam]

Along with the obvious health concerns, TJ was a complete cancer when he was forced to the bench with Calderon's play. How happy is he going to be to sit behind Nash, playing 20-25 minutes a game. He's too small and too poor a defender to play with Nash in a two-PG role. He doesn't shoot the three-ball either. He can score in bunches and--albeit inconsistently--distribute the ball. Just say no to TJ.

I think theres a slight difference between being forced to back up Jose Calderon, and being forced to back up a 2 time MVP and a lock for the Hall of Fame, call me crazy.

3 point shots can be learned, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about that. Look at Dan Majerle who's going to be on the coaching staff, he didn't come into the league as a 3 point specialist, but it was a skill he acquired. Fords shot isn't particularly bad looking from what I recall, so I'd think there's a chance he could develop an outside shot.

I don't worry at all about wanting to play TJ Ford at the 2. You're right, it wouldn't work, and, I wouldn't want the Suns to do it anyway. Nash is almost assuredly going to miss some games, so Ford can play heavy minutes in those, and he can really reduce Nash's per game minutes.

If we keep LB (I hope we do), he can become a full time 2 guard/3 point/scoring specialist, which is best for him anyhow.

Like Chap and Irish have pointed out, it does make the team smaller, which is a concern. You'd have to make damn sure to resign Skinner first off. Giricek perhaps becomes expendable, but I'd like to have him back, he could play the 3 in a small lineup. At least one of the draft picks would definitely have to be of a big who can contribute right away, which may be a tough thing to find (bigs available in the mid 1st round are usually projects).

 

[overseascardfan]

I like both trades. Gets rid of salary, brings in young talent in Ford & Webster (who I think can be the next JJ), and gets them 2 extra first rounders.

#13 - Rush
#15 - Green
#17 - Speights
#48 - Padgett

 

[okhoops]

TJ has made it pretty clear that he doesn't want to come off the bench anywhere. He sees himself as a top-ten PG. Besides, with the lack of quality big men on the Suns roster, it makes no sense to trade Diaw for a PG. How about trying to sign Turiaf and keeping Diaw. Maybe his countryman can light a fire under his rear end. Trading Barbosa for a "different 2 guard" or backup PG makes far more sense.

 

[Irish]

I'd trade Diaw for Chris Paul or Deron Williams; but I don't think Ford is good enough to justify such a deal.

I'd be interested in a Diaw for Artest deal although not without serious reservations. Arrtest will be an unrestricted free agent next summer, so could be a very short term move.

BTW, I notice Artest played only 57 games last season. What is his health status?