Drop Thompson, draft Johnson

[Jetstream Green]

Imagine Dansby, Hayes and D.J. Johnson playing together. I wouldn't be upset if we landed Rolle since Hill's back problem has me worried. I just think Rolle will be gone by then and if Johnson is there do it. Johnson was the U.T. defense this year and he is about as close as you can get in the draft to a sure thing in my opinion. Also, what is the opinion on that CB out of LSU named Webster...going into the season some had him rated higher than Rolle?

 

[red desert]

That's the guy I want. Derrick Johnson and Karlos Dansby will terrorize the NFC West for the next decade.

 

[red desert]

However...

I think with Parcells switching back to the 3-4 next year (according to this morning's paper) he trades up and takes Johnson. And watch for Cowboys to go hard after ken Lucas. I do hope we get both those guys.

 

[FrontRow]

I say draft Johnson and KEEP Thompson. Noch is an NFL level talent, and I for one would like to see 53 of those on our roster.

 

[JeffGollin]

I say draft Johnson and KEEP Thompson.
Depends on who's there at #8.

At this early point, my board would line up something like:

1. Edwards
2. Rolle
3. Leinart
4. Baas
5. Mike Williams
6. Benson
7. Johnson
8. Cody
On my board, therefore, Johnson would be available, but each team's board will look different. Some GM's might rate Alex Smith higher because they place a higher importance on the QB position. Some GM's will "fall in love" with specific players we don't rate as highly. This will cause some guys we rate highly to drop down to us and others to leave our board earlier than expected.

So who's to say?

Note - After last night, I upgraded Leinart and Cody. And the two USC defensive tackles caught my eye - you didn't see the Peterson dude gain many yards inside last night.

 

[Rats]

In A weak draft Johnson is a top 20 talent. However IMO Johnson=Ray Thompson. I would avoid him. He makes big plays behind a big line at Texas just as Ray did at Tenn. At the NFL level he will be no better than average. Best Player available at 8 and hope to trade down 2 or 3 spots and take Ronnie Brown or Williams if he comes out. We need a featured Rb in this offense. Henry might be worth a look if we can't make a trade for Bennett. He does eat up alot of yards and can catch out of the backfield.

 

[SECTION 11]

He makes big plays behind a big line at Texas just as Ray did at Tenn. At the NFL level he will be no better than average.

What's the alternative? To not make big plays behind a big line?
I don't get it.

 

[JeffGollin]

Also, what is the opinion on that CB out of LSU named Webster...going into the season some had him rated higher than Rolle?
Nice size, but his current forty-time is listed somewhere around 4.57. Unless he times out faster at the Combine or afterward, this figures to pull his rating down a little.

 

[Rats]

What's the alternative? To not make big plays behind a big line?
I don't get it.

I guess what I am saying is that at the NFL level Big Play Ray came to find out that you have to adjust to the speed of the game here. He was light and fast at the college level and was able to slip blocks and make tackles because his big lineman occupied there blockers. Johnson is the same type that slides to open areas to make plays. At the NFL level size as well as speed does matter. Johnson IMO plays to much like Ray Ray did at Tenn. I would not give a top 10 or 15 to have him be undersized and out of position like Thompson was the entire time he was here IMO.

 

[SECTION 11]

I guess what I am saying is that at the NFL level Big Play Ray came to find out that you have to adjust to the speed of the game here. He was light and fast at the college level and was able to slip blocks and make tackles because his big lineman occupied there blockers. Johnson is the same type that slides to open areas to make plays. At the NFL level size as well as speed does matter. Johnson IMO plays to much like Ray Ray did at Tenn. I would not give a top 10 or 15 to have him be undersized and out of position like Thompson was the entire time he was here IMO.

Gotchya. That makes sense, although I still like him as a first-half-of-the-first-round-of-the-first-day talent.

 

[TRW]

How in the heck did he get the nickname "Big Play" Ray? This guy is too small to play LB in the NFL and is ALWAYS nicked up and can't play. He's another bust from the former regime that needs to be purged. See ya!

I think Cards fans, myself included, need to stop being enamored with the marginal players who have hung on here. Ray Thompson, Ronald McKinnon (Mac continually gushing Singletary's name every time he pumped up Ronnie Mac was disgusting), Josh McCown, Scobey, Croom, ad infinitum who get the love because we'll grasp at any straw that we think will stir the drink is a result of loving a losing organization for so long. I don't want to see any more Preston Parsons debates amoung the Cards fans!

Denny's first draft and the RESULTS on the field from those players give me hope that we will be propping up bona fide NFL stars in years to come. I hope the magic continues in this draft and he pulls a few more "rabbits out of the hat" like last year.

Sorry, don't mean to sound negative and none of my comments are directed at any specific posters here, they are just my general observations from the past couple of seasons reading this board. I love the reparte' that goes on here (for the most part) and the good natured jawing at each other. I just long for the day when we are talking about advancing in the playoffs or....remember dreamin' is FREE...going to the Super Bowl at Cardinal Stadium.


Sweet!!!!

OK, I slapped myself and woke up....

 

[Duckjake]

I guess what I am saying is that at the NFL level Big Play Ray came to find out that you have to adjust to the speed of the game here. He was light and fast at the college level and was able to slip blocks and make tackles because his big lineman occupied there blockers. Johnson is the same type that slides to open areas to make plays. At the NFL level size as well as speed does matter. Johnson IMO plays to much like Ray Ray did at Tenn. I would not give a top 10 or 15 to have him be undersized and out of position like Thompson was the entire time he was here IMO.

Obviously you have never seen DJohnson play in person. He is much bigger than Thompson and quicker. DJ also makes big plays instead of just having the nickname. On one play this year a FB tried to cut block him. DJ jumped onto the guys back used the blocker as a launching pad and blocked a pass backwards about 20 yards. Like a big time NBA rejection.

He is able to slide to open areas because he has terrific vision and a keen sense of where the play is going. My kids were able to follow the ball just by watching where #11 was going. He is also very good in pass coverage.

His one weakness is that he tends to do the Pat Tillman, Adrian Wilson tackle and hit guys hard without wrapping up. But you don't see him get run over often if ever.

He single handedly disrupted many team's offenses and I can't count the number of times he saved TD's with a big time tackle. Without Johnson Texas is 7-4 this season.

Of course that's my biased opinion from watching him for 4 years.

 

[Rats]

Obviously you have never seen DJohnson play in person. He is much bigger than Thompson and quicker. DJ also makes big plays instead of just having the nickname. On one play this year a FB tried to cut block him. DJ jumped onto the guys back used the blocker as a launching pad and blocked a pass backwards about 20 yards. Like a big time NBA rejection.

He is able to slide to open areas because he has terrific vision and a keen sense of where the play is going. My kids were able to follow the ball just by watching where #11 was going. He is also very good in pass coverage.

His one weakness is that he tends to do the Pat Tillman, Adrian Wilson tackle and hit guys hard without wrapping up. But you don't see him get run over often if ever.

He single handedly disrupted many team's offenses and I can't count the number of times he saved TD's with a big time tackle. Without Johnson Texas is 7-4 this season.

Of course that's my biased opinion from watching him for 4 years.

No, I have not seen him play in person and there is no question that he is a playmaker at the college level. Just to similar to Rays game to make me comfortable taking him with a Top 15 pick. I have seen half a dozen UT games this season and some from last year( I grew up in Texas remember and was always a Longhorn fan instead of the Aggies) and he doesn't look like he is measurably bigger than Thompson. He has good instincts but so does Ray. I just feel undersize LB can be had later in the draft not top ten.

 

[Jetstream Green]

correct me if I'm wrong

D.J. Johnson is not a tweener type LB. Isn't the guy close to 235 or 240 and Thompson coming out was about 225? And I have seen Johnson take out alot of guys behind the line, inside the line, outside the line and all over the field. D.J. Johnson is alot more physical than Thompson and has better instincts.

 

[Russ Smith]

In A weak draft Johnson is a top 20 talent. However IMO Johnson=Ray Thompson. I would avoid him. He makes big plays behind a big line at Texas just as Ray did at Tenn. At the NFL level he will be no better than average. Best Player available at 8 and hope to trade down 2 or 3 spots and take Ronnie Brown or Williams if he comes out. We need a featured Rb in this offense. Henry might be worth a look if we can't make a trade for Bennett. He does eat up alot of yards and can catch out of the backfield.

Yes and no, Ray played at least some of his career with Henderson and Haynesworth, Ellis may have been there then too, that'll make you look good.

Texas has one surefire NFL prospect on the DL right now, Rodrique Wright. Crowder and Robison the ends are both nice athletes but both are really pass rushers not run stuffers. Dibbles I'll have to defer to other Texas fans I always watch Wright, but Dibbles was a highly touted recruit who has done nothing while Wright played right away. Even when Tubbs was hurt the prior two years Dibbles barely played. Texas' DL is nowhere near what Tennessee had.

But I do agree the fear on Johnson is his size, the good thing is he's a legit 10-15 pounds heavier than Ray at his current playing weight, Ray was 210 to 215 he bulked up for the draft, Johnson has played at his current weight for basically 2 years. Brooks may have more upside because he's bigger, but Johnson is less a size risk than Thompson, and he's a MUCH better player than Thompson was coming out of college.

 

[Russ Smith]

Obviously you have never seen DJohnson play in person. He is much bigger than Thompson and quicker. DJ also makes big plays instead of just having the nickname. On one play this year a FB tried to cut block him. DJ jumped onto the guys back used the blocker as a launching pad and blocked a pass backwards about 20 yards. Like a big time NBA rejection.

He is able to slide to open areas because he has terrific vision and a keen sense of where the play is going. My kids were able to follow the ball just by watching where #11 was going. He is also very good in pass coverage.

His one weakness is that he tends to do the Pat Tillman, Adrian Wilson tackle and hit guys hard without wrapping up. But you don't see him get run over often if ever.

He single handedly disrupted many team's offenses and I can't count the number of times he saved TD's with a big time tackle. Without Johnson Texas is 7-4 this season.

Of course that's my biased opinion from watching him for 4 years.

And he broke an NCAA record this year for fumbles caused in one season by a player. He came up with that club move ala LT and other greats where he holds on with the left hand and clubs the ball out with the right, did it again in the Bowl win although Texas didn't recover it.

 

[Evil Ash]

D.J. Johnson is not a tweener type LB. Isn't the guy close to 235 or 240 and Thompson coming out was about 225? And I have seen Johnson take out alot of guys behind the line, inside the line, outside the line and all over the field. D.J. Johnson is alot more physical than Thompson and has better instincts.

Johnson is listed at 6'4" 235 lbs

 

[Rats]

Yes and no, Ray played at least some of his career with Henderson and Haynesworth, Ellis may have been there then too, that'll make you look good.

Texas has one surefire NFL prospect on the DL right now, Rodrique Wright. Crowder and Robison the ends are both nice athletes but both are really pass rushers not run stuffers. Dibbles I'll have to defer to other Texas fans I always watch Wright, but Dibbles was a highly touted recruit who has done nothing while Wright played right away. Even when Tubbs was hurt the prior two years Dibbles barely played. Texas' DL is nowhere near what Tennessee had.

But I do agree the fear on Johnson is his size, the good thing is he's a legit 10-15 pounds heavier than Ray at his current playing weight, Ray was 210 to 215 he bulked up for the draft, Johnson has played at his current weight for basically 2 years. Brooks may have more upside because he's bigger, but Johnson is less a size risk than Thompson, and he's a MUCH better player than Thompson was coming out of college.

This is kinda like a Vilma verse DJ Johnson arguement with regards to Brooks and Johnson. I like Johnson just not for a top 15 pick. I do think in this draft he probably will go top 20. In a Lb heavy draft he might not go until late 1st. I think Tubbs and Wright are comparable to the Tenn group. Texas always has atheletes along the line.

 

[HookemCards]

Yes and no, Ray played at least some of his career with Henderson and Haynesworth, Ellis may have been there then too, that'll make you look good.

Texas has one surefire NFL prospect on the DL right now, Rodrique Wright. Crowder and Robison the ends are both nice athletes but both are really pass rushers not run stuffers. Dibbles I'll have to defer to other Texas fans I always watch Wright, but Dibbles was a highly touted recruit who has done nothing while Wright played right away. Even when Tubbs was hurt the prior two years Dibbles barely played. Texas' DL is nowhere near what Tennessee had.

But I do agree the fear on Johnson is his size, the good thing is he's a legit 10-15 pounds heavier than Ray at his current playing weight, Ray was 210 to 215 he bulked up for the draft, Johnson has played at his current weight for basically 2 years. Brooks may have more upside because he's bigger, but Johnson is less a size risk than Thompson, and he's a MUCH better player than Thompson was coming out of college.

Most scouts also agree, with his frame, he could put on 10 lbs and not lose any speed. The guys is a potential LT, Ray Lewis type player. If he's there at 8 I jump all over the pick. Also, you won't find any linebacker with his speed, he's just an incredible talent.

 

[Russ Smith]

Most scouts also agree, with his frame, he could put on 10 lbs and not lose any speed. The guys is a potential LT, Ray Lewis type player. If he's there at 8 I jump all over the pick. Also, you won't find any linebacker with his speed, he's just an incredible talent.

yep on Monday I started saying I want Johnson or Brooks, I think an impact LB and a run stuffing DT will make this defense special.

Rats is right, there's a risk at his size, Dansby is light in the butt too, and Hayes is a bit small, but our defense is built on speed, all 3 guys can get stronger and with a stronger DT than Davis, we can be special.

 

[Rats]

yep on Monday I started saying I want Johnson or Brooks, I think an impact LB and a run stuffing DT will make this defense special.

Rats is right, there's a risk at his size, Dansby is light in the butt too, and Hayes is a bit small, but our defense is built on speed, all 3 guys can get stronger and with a stronger DT than Davis, we can be special.

You and Hookem and DuckJake might have just convinced me on Johnson. If his frame could carry another 10-15 pounds and we get a RB in FA he could be the pick. I would like to see the combine and who comes out from the underclassman. I guess Clarrett in the third with this guy and a solid FA Corner like Lucas would do the trick.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

DJ looked plenty big enough to me.I don't understand the "need" to add 10 pounds.6'4 235 is a good sized LB.

 

[Carpy]

It's a moot point. If he's still there at #6, there's no way the Titans pass on him.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's a moot point. If he's still there at #6, there's no way the Titans pass on him.

Nope, Mac only takes LB's in the 2nd round.

 

[Redsz]

lol. Nice one Russ.