Dump the 3-4 Defense

[kerouac9]

True but who knows if he has put on some weight. IIRC correctly they felt he could handle gaining some wihtout losing his speed on the edge.

Maybe, but as Mike Lombardi says all the time: hope is not a plan. Also, a player is going to say anything if it's going to improve it's draft status. Do you really believe that ANYONE can gain 15 pounds of weight (at least for Cody) and not lose his speed? This team has more players for the 3-4 defense right now than they have for the 4-3 defense. Re-constituting the unit would take another 3-4 years.

 

[Buckybird]

This team has more players for the 3-4 defense right now than they have for the 4-3 defense.

as of today thats just not simply true

 

[kerouac9]

as of today thats just not simply true

Assuming Dansby's gone:

3-4 defenders: Dockett (DE), Haggans (OLB/ILB), Hayes (ILB), Campbell (DE), Iwebema (DE), Davis (OLB), Brown (OLB), Branch (DE/NT), Watson (NT).

4-3 defenders: Dockett (UT), Haggans (SLB), Hayes (MLB), maybe Campbell (as an RDE).

With the change, you basically make the entire defensive draft class from 2009 obsolete. You're hoping that Davis and C. Brown can gain wait and beat OTs by themselves, or you're drafting a top-shelf pass-rusher, which isn't easy to do in the mid-20s, and you're replacing your Pro Bowl Caliber WLB.

Oh, and you really can't make many moves in free agency, either. You're hoping that Dansby signs a front-loaded high-eight-figure contract.

 

[Shane]

Assuming Dansby's gone:

3-4 defenders: Dockett (DE), Haggans (OLB/ILB), Hayes (ILB), Campbell (DE), Iwebema (DE), Davis (OLB), Brown (OLB), Branch (DE/NT), Watson (NT).

4-3 defenders: Dockett (UT), Haggans (SLB), Hayes (MLB), maybe Campbell (as an RDE).

With the change, you basically make the entire defensive draft class from 2009 obsolete. You're hoping that Davis and C. Brown can gain wait and beat OTs by themselves, or you're drafting a top-shelf pass-rusher, which isn't easy to do in the mid-20s, and you're replacing your Pro Bowl Caliber WLB.

Oh, and you really can't make many moves in free agency, either. You're hoping that Dansby signs a front-loaded high-eight-figure contract.

Both Branch and Watson could easily play DT in the 4-3 alignment dont know why you are dismissing them as 4-3 defenders.

 

[Buckybird]

Both Branch and Watson could easily play DT in the 4-3 alignment dont know why you are dismissing them as 4-3 defenders.

agree Shane

& we really don't have the edge rushers on this roster needed for the 3-4 yet outside of Brown (we hope)

 

[kerouac9]

Both Branch and Watson could easily play DT in the 4-3 alignment dont know why you are dismissing them as 4-3 defenders.

After seeing the disaster that Branch was playing the NT position the last two years (when he wasn't a healthy inactive), I'm not quite ready to plug him back into that role again.

700 year old Bryan Robinson held off both guys at the NT position for 32 weeks. What makes you think that either can be productive as starters in a 4-3 defense right now?

Hope is not a plan. This isn't Madden.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hope is not a plan.

Well said, I just wish more people realized this during the last presidential election. Unfortunately for our country, Obama is proving that all to well now.

 

[Pariah]

Unfortunately for our country, Obama is proving that all to well now.

 

[Shane]

After seeing the disaster that Branch was playing the NT position the last two years (when he wasn't a healthy inactive), I'm not quite ready to plug him back into that role again.

700 year old Bryan Robinson held off both guys at the NT position for 32 weeks. What makes you think that either can be productive as starters in a 4-3 defense right now?

Hope is not a plan. This isn't Madden.

Branch isnt the same player "mentally' That he was the prior two years that much is certain. Not to mention you named Okeafor, Berry and Dansby as players that fit the 3-4 system yet there is a good chance all 3 will be gone this off season.

Not to mention that both Berry and Okeafor have played in a 4-3 effectively as well.

 

[Dayman]

Not to mention that both Berry and Okeafor have played in a 4-3 effectively as well.

Much more effectively than as linebackers. Chike had four consecutive seasons of at least 7.5 sacks before the switch. No Cardinal has registered that many sacks in a year since, and Chike's proudced 4.5 in his two years as an OLB. Berry's sack per game average also dropped significantly after the switch. Some of their decline has to do with age, but I don't think learning a new position ten years into their careers helped.

 

[SuperSpck]

After seeing the disaster that Branch was playing the NT position the last two years (when he wasn't a healthy inactive), I'm not quite ready to plug him back into that role again.

Depends what his DT responsibilities are.
If you want him to control an area, he'll fail. As a 3-4 NT he saw mostly double teams on either side (I also wonder about his height for plug position).

He does very well shooting the gap and using his strength and bulk to force past a single defender, not two.

Hypothetically, if the Cards switched back to a 4-3 he could be a force if he's able to avoid the doubles. Place him next to a Watson or a Dockett and you'd be able to find matchup issues, at least some of the time.

Also, think about this as a subpackage in the 4-3 on rushing downs, Campbell, Branch, Watson, Dockett. That's a lot to deal with.

Dockett's shown the jump and explosion off the line where he could possibly play a little DE in the 4-3. Campbell too. So the potential for pass rush isn't totally negated.

 

[kerouac9]

Branch isnt the same player "mentally' That he was the prior two years that much is certain. Not to mention you named Okeafor, Berry and Dansby as players that fit the 3-4 system yet there is a good chance all 3 will be gone this off season.

Not to mention that both Berry and Okeafor have played in a 4-3 effectively as well.

I didn't count Berry and Okeafor because according to Joe they're not on the roster for 2010.

Yes, when Branch wasn't asked to take on double-teams (like he'd have to as an NT in a 4-3 defense, he broke out as the player that we drafted. When asked to be John Henderson or Marcus Stroud, he goes into a shell and isn't interested in playing.

You might not like it, but DE in a one-gap 3-4 defense has proved to be the IDEAL position for Alan Branch. As a one-technique even in an attacking Tampa-2 style defense, he'd lose interest as quickly as he did as a nose tackle.