Dwight Howard vs Randolph Morris on ESPN

[slinslin]

Did anyone catch the game on ESPN?
It is the likely #1 pick Dwight Howard against another potential first round highschool pick.

 

[PhxGametime]

Howard was impressive but on offense opposing team triple teamed him and most of his Points were him circling paint and guards throwing ball high and Howard out jumping, catching, and then dunking. Defensively he has length, athleticism, jumping ability, quickness, shotblocking - just looks a bit thin. Nice passing ability and can lead break but had a few turnovers.

He looked more impressive than Chris Bosh did at McDonalds, only got to see Bosh a few times at Georgia Tech though and Bosh was a great 3PT shooter and was more ready for NBA after 1 year at Georgia Tech (atleast until I see more than dunks from Howard - only 1 time did I see a basket other than dunks and it was a layup). He did attempt two 3Pters though and missed - so he might have some range.

If Howard can shoot, he has all the tools that Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Chris Bosh etc have. If not, a more versatile - Tyson Chandler, Marcus Camby, Theo Ratliff, Stromile Swift etc type of player.

 

[slinslin]

From what I picked up from guys who watched it said that Howard was frustrated and fouled out.
Randolph Morris stole some spotlight from him.

Morris might be in the draft as well.

If you believe the papers, Howard, Telfair, Smith, Livingston, Swift, Jefferson will definately declare and are all first rounders and Morris is probably also in the draft as well as Aldridge.

That's pretty good because Howard, Morris, Swift and Aldrigde are all F/C projects.

 

[BMF]

I wish they would go to college.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by BMF
I wish they would go to college.

One of the reasons I prefer Okafor over Howard (besides the fact that I've seen Okafor) is that he has gone to college, is older, physically more mature, and has played more under pressure. I'm convinced he would get substantial minutes immediately.

Another thing about Okafor -- if Amare really is malingering, he'd stop it immediately if there was someone like Okafor on the team. This is not the kind of guy you want to a Wally Pipp with.

(Pipp took the day off as the Yankee's first baseman and his replacement, Lou Gehrig, would proceed to set a record for consecutive starts).

 

[slinslin]

If you draft someone who is ready immediately you will have to sign him to a big extension.

If you draft someone who starts to shine later you can sign him cheaper for a mutli year contract. Those highschool guys will only be 21-22 when they can get an extension.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
If you draft someone who is ready immediately you will have to sign him to a big extension.

If you draft someone who starts to shine later you can sign him cheaper for a mutli year contract. Those highschool guys will only be 21-22 when they can get an extension.

Let me get this right. You want a guy who can't play because then you can get him cheap later when he might be able to play?

Here is my idea. Get guys that can play. If you can't afford to pay them, then trade them for cheaper guys who can play.

I am not totally against projects. But I prefer guys who can play because a lot more projects turn out to be Eddie Curry than Kevin Garnett.

 

[slinslin]

I think we should get whoever has the biggest upside. Doesn't mean they can't play but I would rather have someone who turns out decent first and great later than someone who will always be good.

Right now Sebastian Telfair, Steph's cousin is pretty much on top of my wishlist because I have think that Barbosa and Vujanic will both struggle to be natural PGs while Telfair already is a great passer and creater.

Stephon was only a year older than Telfair when he came to the league and was one of the best PGs right away.
If you could get a raw version of Stephon and mold him into the PG you want without Steph's bad habits that would be pretty good.

Also Telfair has charisma, he is big name already like Melo or Lebron were. Not as much as Lebron but wasn't Telfair on the cover of Slam Magazine when he was like 16?

Suns lottery pick - Sebastian Telfair 6' 190lbs PG HS
http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/sebastiantelfair.asp

Knicks pick - Randolph Morris 7' 270lbs C HS http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/randolphmorris.asp profile is 2 years old , Morris turned 18 today

 

[Chaplin]

Upside is a myth, and one of the biggest lies to be perpetuated on the public by sports team's PR people.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin

Right now Sebastian Telfair, Steph's cousin is pretty much on top of my wishlist because I have think that Barbosa and Vujanic will both struggle to be natural PGs while Telfair already is a great passer and creater.

Barbosa has started 14 games. Prior to that, he had four games of over 10 minutes. Over that period, he has averaged a bit over 3 assists per game. Based on this, you've decided that Barbosa will not become a real PG?

I will be the first to admit that he has a lot to learn, but he is just a kid.

Vujanic may be more of a shooter than a playmakers (the Suns could have used some of his skill shooting threes the last few games), but that is proof that he cannot become a good one.

I for one am not all that interested in adding another PG project no matter how much upside Telair has.

 

[Joe Mama]

Slin, the problem with your idea of drafting undeveloped players is that if they are good enough to be taken at the top they'll likely command a top salary in four years anyhow. The team just doesn't get their four years worth of good play before that extension.

Am I the only one that doesn't think this Phoenix Suns team needs a point guard who averages a bunch of assists? They need size and toughness upfront and sharpshooting more than anything. I know many of us are leery of starting a guy like Okafor at center, but my guess is that he would eat Jake Voskuhl alive in the middle. He could start against at least half of the teams in the NBA, and he would be great off the bench for big minutes against the other half. He would probably also be a fantastic practice partner for Amare Stoudemire.

I am not so naïve as to believe that even with a healthy Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa the current Phoenix Suns would be one of the top teams in the NBA. I do, however, believe they would be playing like a top 10 team. The current roster has enough projects in my opinion. Unless they are just blown away by one of the young guys I would hope that they would take someone who can help sooner than later.

Joe Mama

 

[se7en]

I'm with you Joe. As much as I love the history of the Suns with all star point guards it's time to admit that it doesn't produce championships. If you have some great big men than you only need scrubs at PG. Unfortunately that theory doesn't work in reverse.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Slin, the problem with your idea of drafting undeveloped players is that if they are good enough to be taken at the top they'll likely command a top salary in four years anyhow. The team just doesn't get their four years worth of good play before that extension.

Am I the only one that doesn't think this Phoenix Suns team needs a point guard who averages a bunch of assists? They need size and toughness upfront and sharpshooting more than anything. I know many of us are leery of starting a guy like Okafor at center, but my guess is that he would eat Jake Voskuhl alive in the middle. He could start against at least half of the teams in the NBA, and he would be great off the bench for big minutes against the other half. He would probably also be a fantastic practice partner for Amare Stoudemire.

I am not so naïve as to believe that even with a healthy Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa the current Phoenix Suns would be one of the top teams in the NBA. I do, however, believe they would be playing like a top 10 team. The current roster has enough projects in my opinion. Unless they are just blown away by one of the young guys I would hope that they would take someone who can help sooner than later.

Joe Mama

Absolutely. One other factor is that almost any point guard would not get as many assists as long as the offense runs through JJ. D'Antoni is now pushing him to go for triple doubles. JJ had 9 against the Wizzards, 6 against the Hawks and 6 against the Wolves. He'd have even more if some of his teammates learned to catch the ball and hit their shots.

Running the offense with two combo guards makes it harder for opponents to defense them. When Marbury was running the team, all opponents had to do was to get the ball out of Stephon's hands and the Suns would have to start the offense over again.

 

[sunsfn]

If the suns can get Vujonic here next year they will have their combo guard.

Unless the lottery goes the suns way, we will not be able to get Okafor, but if it does and they draft him, it would give us a great backup for Amare. I do not think Okafor can play center in the NBA because he looks smaller than Amare to me. If he is as big as Amare he can play there occasionly.

The suns just really need that big guy that can block some shots and rebound, they do not need any offense from him.

But, where do they get him?

If they draft 7, 8, 9, they would probably want someone who could contribute right away, but if they keep the 2nd first round pick from the Knicks, maybe they will take a big guy and let him play in Europe for a while. (Kosta Perovic, Pavel Podkolzine etc.)

If they do they could sign someone like Foyle from the Warriors to play center for a couple years, or??

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn
If the suns can get Vujonic here next year they will have their combo guard.

Unless the lottery goes the suns way, we will not be able to get Okafor, but if it does and they draft him, it would give us a great backup for Amare. I do not think Okafor can play center in the NBA because he looks smaller than Amare to me. If he is as big as Amare he can play there occasionly.

The suns just really need that big guy that can block some shots and rebound, they do not need any offense from him.

But, where do they get him?

If they draft 7, 8, 9, they would probably want someone who could contribute right away, but if they keep the 2nd first round pick from the Knicks, maybe they will take a big guy and let him play in Europe for a while. (Kosta Perovic, Pavel Podkolzine etc.)

If they do they could sign someone like Foyle from the Warriors to play center for a couple years, or??

Assuming the Suns are unable trade up for Okafor, they will be forced to take the best player available with the first pick. I'm afraid they will end up with an SF/Guard like Warrick, Deng. or Iguodola. Very good players who don't meet the Suns needs.

The second pick might go for a prospect like Rafael Araujo (BYU out of Brazil). He might be willing to go to Europe for a year, but he may need to be in the NBA to learn the NBA style of play.

This would be a good draft, but not really get the Suns much closer to the championship.

The free agent market for centers is not all that impressive this summer. Okur is likely to remain in Detroit (not what the Suns need anyway). The best of the rest are all flawed and expensive:

Dampier - Having a great year, but has a history of being injury prone and not a hard worker.

Kurt Thomas - Player option at $5.9 million. Mostly an out of position PF at 6'9" 235 but can play center. Very productive: scores 11.3 ppg and rebounds 9 rpg.

Camby - Having a great year but really, really injury prone. Probably too light to defend against bigger centers.

Ostertag - Having pretty good year. Probably too slow to be a good fit with the Suns.

Foyle - May be a low cost replacement for White, but has never played high minutes and has not played hardly at all this season. High injury risk.

Mihm - Backup player so far during his career. 18.6 minutes per game on the Celtics. Foul prone.

Swift - Too small to be a major factor (6'9 230). Has only averaged 19.8 minutes per game this season in spite of good numbers. He is scheduled to be a RFA with a qualifying offer of $5.9 million.

Gadzuric - Defensive oriented backup center type. May be useful if White goes, but only a stop gap.

Dale Davis - Defensive oriented center. 6'11" and 252, but is 35 and his stats have been going down. Decent stop gap but only if he is really cheap.

Divac - Long time second tier player who at 36 is getting old. Has discussed retirement, although the Serbian connection might bring him in for one year if he did not have to play too many minutes.

Keon Clark - Injured the entire season. Once was a decent backup type center, but numbers declined in Sacramento before going to Utah.

I'm using HoopsHype for my list of players, so some of these guys may have already signed extensions that have not been announced officially.