DX: Noel vs. Len

Chaplin

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Or the 7'+ NBA center that had foot/ankle problems early on but overcame them? :(

Both of these guys might become injury busts.

Grant Hill is an example of a player with mismanaged ankle injuries who recovered once the Suns training staff stepped in, but tall guys with health concerns never seem to get past them.

But is it a chronic ankle problem? Suns doctors don't seem to think it is. Big difference between someone who always has problems and one time things.
 

tobiazz

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Others that didn't still turned out pretty good like Duncan (.5) Dikembe (.4), and Mourning (.5)

That's a good example. I figured Duncan must have had greater steal numbers in college, but they were still well under one per game.

However, among recent players, none of the bigs in college with very low steal numbers turned into good pros.
 

tobiazz

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But is it a chronic ankle problem? Suns doctors don't seem to think it is. Big difference between someone who always has problems and one time things.

Have you ever heard of an NBA big with foot/ankle/back problems that were not chronic? He's lighter than guys like Bogut and Ming, so I'm hopeful, but back and ankle injuries are very scary to me.
 

Cheesebeef

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But is it a chronic ankle problem? Suns doctors don't seem to think it is. Big difference between someone who always has problems and one time things.

i thought I read he's been have ankle problems ever since he got to Maryland. that scares me.

and it wasn't like he rolled it and twisted it and broke it. it was a stress fracture, which isn't a freak injury...it's a sign of the body's wear and tear. and this is coming at a YOUNG age. has my pop and best friend, who are kind of at the top of their field in orthopedics worried about him.
 

Neo

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i thought I read he's been have ankle problems ever since he got to Maryland. that scares me.

and it wasn't like he rolled it and twisted it and broke it. it was a stress fracture, which isn't a freak injury...it's a sign of the body's wear and tear. and this is coming at a YOUNG age. has my pop and best friend, who are kind of at the top of their field in orthopedics worried about him.

I had a stress fracture in my foot when I was about his age. After 6 months I was fine and have not had any problems since. I've run marathons and have not felt problems with my feet over the next 20 years.
 
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elindholm

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I had a stress fracture in my foot when I was about his age. After 6 months I was fine and have not had any problems since. I've run marathons and have not felt problems with my feet over the next 20 years.

But are you 7' 2", 260?
 

Cheesebeef

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I had a stress fracture in my foot when I was about his age. After 6 months I was fine and have not had any problems since. I've run marathons and have not felt problems with my feet over the next 20 years.

i'm assuming you're not 7'1, 255 pounds and run marathons for a living, right?
 

sunsfan88

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For the record, here's what I like and don't like about Len in his video vs. Noel. This is the DX link I gave before: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Nerlens-Noel-Alex-Len-Head-to-Head-Matchup-Video-Analysis-4289

These entries go by the timer on the YouTube video, not the game clock. I don't discuss every play.

0:49 Len is in great position after an offensive rebound, but can't figure out how to clear space or draw contact.

1:03 Len pops out way too far after setting a pick, then has no one between himself and the basket, yet settles for a mfugly jump shot that's about four feet off the mark.

1:29 Len easily beat off the dribble when Noel goes left.

1:40 This is a good catch. The first time I looked at it, I thought Len traveled, but now I think it was a good play.

1:57 After a screen, Len is wide open at the rim, but he instantly takes himself out of the lane and sets up too far from the basket. Then on the catch, he pivots even further from the basket. Decent move after that, but I doubt he would have made the shot if not fouled.

2:45 This happens a couple of times in the video. At the end of the play, notice that Len has no lift at all for his second jump. After contesting Noel's shot, he's glued to the floor hoping that a teammate can get the rebound.

3:37 Len does well to get the ball in good position, but then backs off against a tiny guard and can't finish.

3:58 It's stupid to have Len show on a pick-and-roll 25 feet from the basket, but I'll put that one on the coaching.

4:25 Len leaves his feet to bite on a routine fake on a foul-line jump shot and should have been called for a foul.

4:58 Again Len gets no lift on his second jump when battling for the offensive rebound.

5:21 Good decisive move.

5:55 Again Len rolls unnecessarily far from the basket.

6:25 This is similar to 1:40, with Noel trying to front Len on the right block. Len beat it both times, making somewhat difficult catches. It looks like he has good hands.

8:16 Pretty good help defense.

8:31 Again Len fails to take advantage of a clear path to the basket, and instead settles for an ugly-looking short jump shot. He was fouled this time, but it should have been a dunk.

In summary, this is what I see:

* relatively mobile but lacks lateral quickness
* good hands
* good defensive awareness
* adequate footwork and balance
* shies away from contact on the offensive end
* poor leaping ability and virtually no second jump
* not much explosion in general
* tends to wander too far from the basket on both ends, especially on offense
* no instinct for attacking the rim
Yea watching film on him, I agree with you on the leaping part. He gets up about as high off the floor as Robin Lopez did for us and that's a bad thing.

I hope Shannon Brown teaches him how to jump lol.
 

devilalum

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Yea watching film on him, I agree with you on the leaping part. He gets up about as high off the floor as Robin Lopez did for us and that's a bad thing.

I hope Shannon Brown teaches him how to jump lol.

IMO he jumps OK if he has time to load up but he definitely is not a quick leaper.
 

Cheesebeef

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Yea watching film on him, I agree with you on the leaping part. He gets up about as high off the floor as Robin Lopez did for us and that's a bad thing.

I hope Shannon Brown teaches him how to jump lol.

this is what I don't get about everyone saying he's a really good athlete and then pointing to that highlight reel. He doesn't have great lift...he's got good LENGTH, but length only gets you so far in the NBA where everyone you're playing against has similar size.
 

95pro

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no second jump like other euro's who never lived up to expectations.

and then the stress fracture and the fact that he might still grow some more as well has me worried.
 

Chaplin

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Who cares about how high he jumps? Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, none of them jump like Amare Stoudemire.
 

Neo

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But are you 7' 2", 260?

I had to go double check, but after careful measurement I am far below that on both height and weight. I knew there must be a reason why I sit a a desk all day instead of playing pro-basketball.

Obviously, being 14 inches shorter I am less likely to have bad feet, ankles, and knees. But I think it is a little overly pessimistic to say a stress fracture at age 19 means he must be the next Greg Oden.
 

Superbone

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Being 7'1" and with his wingspan there's no great need to jump out of the gym. He dunks the ball like us normal sized people dunk on a Nerf hoop.
 
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elindholm

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Obviously, being 14 inches shorter I am less likely to have bad feet, ankles, and knees. But I think it is a little overly pessimistic to say a stress fracture at age 19 means he must be the next Greg Oden.

True enough, but I think it's fair to acknowledge that an NBA career puts immense strain on anyone's body, no matter how large they are. One has to be exceptionally strong and durable to survive at all. We're talking, often, about some of the very best athletes on the planet. Generally speaking, getting stress fractures while still a teenager doesn't correlate with being exceptionally strong and durable.
 

Cheesebeef

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Who cares about how high he jumps? Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, none of them jump like Amare Stoudemire.

well, if this guy had ANY of the game any of those guys had, I think you'd have a point, but he hasn't shown anything close to approximating Duncan, who was the best player in college basketball for three years when he came out, Dirk, who was a triple threat when he came out (and played PF, NOT Center) and Gasol, who scouts were raving about his length, passing ability and rebounding when he came out.

I mean...how those guys factor into this conversation is a little confusing to me.
 

Cheesebeef

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Obviously, being 14 inches shorter I am less likely to have bad feet, ankles, and knees. But I think it is a little overly pessimistic to say a stress fracture at age 19 means he must be the next Greg Oden.

well Neo...no one's calling him the next Greg Oden. The reason his injury concerns are brought up is because that's pretty much the main reason why people are defending the pick over Noel, who's more athletic, is a dominant defensive player and is younger.

bottom line, they both have injury concerns and that's why it's being discussed with Len. they DON'T both have the same tenacity/defensive skills/athleticism as I don't think it can be debated that Noel's are better in every category. does that help you understand why it's being discussed?
 

Cheesewater

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The twig that is Noel had better put on some pounds, and figure out how to use them, or he's going to get shoved around but good.
 

Chaplin

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well, if this guy had ANY of the game any of those guys had, I think you'd have a point, but he hasn't shown anything close to approximating Duncan, who was the best player in college basketball for three years when he came out, Dirk, who was a triple threat when he came out (and played PF, NOT Center) and Gasol, who scouts were raving about his length, passing ability and rebounding when he came out.

I mean...how those guys factor into this conversation is a little confusing to me.

Geez, stop hating so much. I never said Len was on par with them, I was using them as a comparison because jumping ability means absolutely nothing in the conversation. Your other points are still valid, it's just the whole "can't jump" thing is useless in this conversation.
 

devilalum

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You know that game you play with a kid where you hold their toy high in the air and they try to jump up and get it?

Alex Len could play that game effectively with half the guys on this board.
 
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