Early Opinions on Aaron Brooks.

[Arizona's Finest]

I was just discussing this at work today. So far, I am wrong. He really has played well, though his defense is "as advertised". That can improve though as he gets healthier.

Brooks is definitely an upgrade over Dragic. My only concern is if they don't resign him and so it turns out to be a short term rental.

Just read that. There ya go

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Bosh isn't the one I think Miami would or will be looking to deal. With the way Miami has played this season, and the quite apparent lack of chemistry/cohesion between Wade and LBJ, it would be one of them that Miami should consider dealing away for a better piece or pieces to round out their team. With that, I think Miami would be more inclined to keep Wade since he's shown that he can lead a team to a championship. I knew from the start of LBJ's "Decision" and the words he said, "I'm going to Miami to LEAD them to a Championship". From teh get go, he was hell bent on the Heat being HIS team and not Wades team or a shared lead. That's the problems with them now. Plus I think Miami would be able to get more pieces in a trade for LBJ than for Wade.

This post is sponsored by the use of Peyote.


LMAO no way in hell. In fact if I had to bet, Riley would trade Wade over Lebron if the gun was to his head. Lebron will be in Miami come hell or high water. That I would bet my house on.

 

[jlove]

This post is sponsored by the use of Peyote.


LMAO no way in hell. In fact if I had to bet, Riley would trade Wade over Lebron if the gun was to his head. Lebron will be in Miami come hell or high water. That I would bet my house on.

Out of the 3 in Miami, IMO, it would be LBJ that would be the first to be dealt. Bosh is the low post threat, so now it would be to decide between 2nd best player in the NBA (even as a Suns fan, I think Kobe is still better than LBJ) or the player that Miami loves and adores, never the less that has brought them a Championship. If you think Riley would keep LBJ over Wade and not be assasinated or run out of the state of Florida for that, you're the one smoking peyote.

 

[desertdawg]

Out of the 3 in Miami, IMO, it would be LBJ that would be the first to be dealt. Bosh is the low post threat, so now it would be to decide between 2nd best player in the NBA (even as a Suns fan, I think Kobe is still better than LBJ) or the player that Miami loves and adores, never the less that has brought them a Championship. If you think Riley would keep LBJ over Wade and not be assasinated or run out of the state of Florida for that, you're the one smoking peyote.

You don't smoke peyote bro, you ingest it. I guess one could smoke it after it's been dried (maybe a headache, I wouldn't even know), but one could pretty much smoke anything once it's been dried.

 

[elindholm]

The evidence is mounting, and yet people seem reluctant to acknowledge it: The greater the pressure, the worse James does. This Miami team is doing worse than James's teams in Cleveland, even though their talent level is higher. His numbers are either flat or slightly off, depending on which statistic you look at, but nothing -- nothing -- is better. His inability to make a game-winning shot is well documented. His Cavalier teams were upset in the playoffs by a lower seed in each of the last two years, and when he basically disappeared at the end of last summer's Boston series, my guess is that it wasn't because of a sex scandal or because he had decided to leave, but because he couldn't handle the expectations of the later rounds. His success in the last Olympics was because he was second fiddle to Bryant and the team was so loaded that it really didn't matter whether he played well or not.

It was not always this way. As recently as the 2007 playoffs, James scored his team's last 25 points to secure a double-overtime win against the Pistons in Detroit. But as James has gotten older, his heart has shrunk. It's becoming more difficult to believe that he has what it takes to lead a team to a championship, although I don't doubt that he could be an excellent second option.

At some point, the Heat are going to have to say, listen, LeBron, you're great, but you aren't clutch. Accept it and move on. If you want to win, you're going to have to accept a role with less pressure.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It was not always this way. As recently as the 2007 playoffs, James scored his team's last 25 points to secure a double-overtime win against the Pistons in Detroit. But as James has gotten older, his heart has shrunk. It's becoming more difficult to believe that he has what it takes to lead a team to a championship, although I don't doubt that he could be an excellent second option.

That game is what always had me convinced that James was the next great one. It was a tour de force, and one of the greatest single game performances I can remember. Apparently it was just a mirage though, as he seems to regress with each missed clutch opportunity.

It is stunning to see how ineffective he is with superior talent in Miami. Over the last couple years in Cleveland, surrounded by absolute garbage, the Cavs had managed the best if not near the best record in the league. The natural assumption coming into the season would be that the Heat would be far better. Hasn't happened.

The entire concept of a "big three" was a farce to me from the beginning. Chris Bosh is a decent player, but to put him on the level of Wade or James is a joke. His game is the equivalent of the old LaMarcus Aldridge. (Who has become a much better player now that he plays closer to the rim) A decent jump shooter who cannot produce much in the post or in terms of rebounds. There are plenty of players that can fill it up on bad teams. Paying max money for someone to do that is just stupid.

 

[jagu]

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[GYDevil]

That game is what always had me convinced that James was the next great one. It was a tour de force, and one of the greatest single game performances I can remember. Apparently it was just a mirage though, as he seems to regress with each missed clutch opportunity.

It is stunning to see how ineffective he is with superior talent in Miami. Over the last couple years in Cleveland, surrounded by absolute garbage, the Cavs had managed the best if not near the best record in the league. The natural assumption coming into the season would be that the Heat would be far better. Hasn't happened.

The entire concept of a "big three" was a farce to me from the beginning. Chris Bosh is a decent player, but to put him on the level of Wade or James is a joke. His game is the equivalent of the old LaMarcus Aldridge. (Who has become a much better player now that he plays closer to the rim) A decent jump shooter who cannot produce much in the post or in terms of rebounds. There are plenty of players that can fill it up on bad teams. Paying max money for someone to do that is just stupid.

By this measure Dragic should be the next Great One. Also, Bosh would have gotten Max money from 20+ teams, that is not the measurement here. That's like saying Joe Johnson is better than Wade and LeBron because he makes more money than them.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't see the Heat moving James simply because of the hype surrounding his acquisition. But if they did--man that would be hysterical in its own way. However, all feelings aside, they do have the most tradable asset in the league in the sense that teams would move pieces for him. In a way it could be a brilliant move for the Heat to deal Lebron for all the pieces they need.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

By this measure Dragic should be the next Great One.

What the hell are you talking about?

Also, Bosh would have gotten Max money from 20+ teams, that is not the measurement here.

Measurement of what?

That's like saying Joe Johnson is better than Wade and LeBron because he makes more money than them.

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[GYDevil]

What the hell are you talking about?

"That game is what always had me convinced that James was the next great one."

You said that LeBron's huge playoff game against Detroit had you convinced that he was the next Great One. I seem to remember an unbelievable quarter of basketball that Dragic put up last year to win us an important playoff game. Point being, one game/quarter does not greatness make. LeBron had an unbelievable game but that didn't make him Kobe or Jordan in terms of being Great or Clutch.


Measurement of what?

"Paying max money for someone to do that is just stupid."

Bosh is worth the Max to 20+ teams, that doesn't make him the key piece to compete for multiple championships. You are saying he shouldn't be paid the Max, which is a stupid statement when over half the league would have done it. So, if the question is whether he is worth Max money then the answer is "Yes". If the question is will Bosh LEAD them to a title then the answer is probably "No". So Max money as a "measurement" of title success has little to no correlation (how many guys who make Max money at some point in their careers will never win a title? 80%)


Again, what the hell are you talking about?

"Chris Bosh is a decent player, but to put him on the level of Wade or James is a joke."

This is basically answered above. Just because Bosh is paid the same amount of money as Wade and LeBron doesn't mean that anyone is saying he is on the same level as them. Joe Johnson makes more money than all 3 and putting him on the same par as Wade and LeBron is a joke as well. In the NBA you need 3 stars (or 2 superstars) and solid role players to win titles. Miami has the stars but not the chemistry or the role players at this point.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You said that LeBron's huge playoff game against Detroit had you convinced that he was the next Great One. I seem to remember an unbelievable quarter of basketball that Dragic put up last year to win us an important playoff game. Point being, one game/quarter does not greatness make. LeBron had an unbelievable game but that didn't make him Kobe or Jordan in terms of being Great or Clutch.

Comparing Lebron and Goran is absurd. If you can't appreciate the differences between the two, and their performance levels before their big games, I don't think there is even the basis of having this conversation.

It's a fundamental lack of understanding to compare a unworldly performance by Lebron, a one man team to lead the Cavs to the finals on the road, and the next big thing, to Goran Freakin Dragic, a backup who caught fire one night in the playoffs. Most transcendent superstars have breakout performances to take them to the next level. It looked like that would be the impetus for James. Clearly it wasn't. To compare the two is somewhere beyond stupid.

Bosh is worth the Max to 20+ teams

Lol, according to who? You're completely pulling this out of your ass. Show me one bit of supporting evidence for this. Oh, of course, you have none.

that doesn't make him the key piece to compete for multiple championships.

Where anywhere did I say that it did? Please stop putting your stupid words in my mouth.

You are saying he shouldn't be paid the Max, which is a stupid statement when over half the league would have done it.

So your assertion is that because your made up statistic of "20 + teams" that you pulled out of your ass would pay the max for Bosh, he should be a max player. Newsflash!!! Pay attention closely...in case you hadn't noticed, from time to time, teams tend to overpay for certain players. Believe it or not, this happens. Just because people are willing to do this doesn't make it smart.

Just because Bosh is paid the same amount of money as Wade and LeBron doesn't mean that anyone is saying he is on the same level as them.

Who the hell said they did? My comment was that it's funny that people call them the big 3. I hope you can figure that one out...

Joe Johnson makes more money than all 3 and putting him on the same par as Wade and LeBron is a joke as well.

Uh, of course...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Nobody ever made that argument. Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[GYDevil]

Comparing Lebron and Goran is absurd. If you can't appreciate the differences between the two, and their performance levels before their big games, I don't think there is even the basis of having this conversation.

It's a fundamental lack of understanding to compare a unworldly performance by Lebron, a one man team to lead the Cavs to the finals on the road, and the next big thing, to Goran Freakin Dragic, a backup who caught fire one night in the playoffs. Most transcendent superstars have breakout performances to take them to the next level. It looked like that would be the impetus for James. Clearly it wasn't. To compare the two is somewhere beyond stupid.



Lol, according to who? You're completely pulling this out of your ass. Show me one bit of supporting evidence for this. Oh, of course, you have none.



Where anywhere did I say that it did? Please stop putting your stupid words in my mouth.



So your assertion is that because your made up statistic of "20 + teams" that you pulled out of your ass would pay the max for Bosh, he should be a max player. Newsflash!!! Pay attention closely...in case you hadn't noticed, from time to time, teams tend to overpay for certain players. Believe it or not, this happens. Just because people are willing to do this doesn't make it smart.



Who the hell said they did? My comment was that it's funny that people call them the big 3. I hope you can figure that one out...



Uh, of course...what the hell does that have to do with anything? Nobody ever made that argument. Where do you come up with this stuff?

You know what, you are absolutely right, I have no idea what you were saying. Go ahead and start a poll and see how many posters who are obviously more knowledgeable than you would think that 20+ teams in the NBA right now would pay Bosh the max. Let me do the math for you to see if you can figure it out. I will try to make it simple for you. There are 30 teams in the NBA, each of which can afford at least 2 Max players (Bosh is making 14.5M). Bosh is a consensus top-20-25 player in this league (I'm guessing I will have to show you the proof for that. OK, how about 6 consecutive All-star appearance, where they only select 24 total players, or being a member of the 2008 USA Olympic team, where they only select 12 and where he led the team in rebounds). That means as many as 50-60 players in this league make Max money (or more money than Bosh will make with the Heat) of which Bosh is clearly one of those. (BTW, I didn't pull those stats out of my a$$, I used something called the internet) If even that simple fact is too much for you to comprehend, then I will go ahead and ignore the rest of your comments since they can't be that bright.

Your dimness was further evident in your reaction to my comparison of LeBron and Dragic. My point was not to compare the two players overall game, it was to point out that 1 game does not prove anything about the future of an individual player. LeBron's game against Detroit did not prove that he was the next Great One any more than Dragic's performance propel him to take the next step up in his career. Both of them have failed to live up to those moments ever since.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

You know what, you are absolutely right, I have no idea what you were saying.

Should have just stopped here. Also, comparing Lebron to Goran = still stupid. The fact that you can't grasp the difference between the circumstances gives me no reason to continue this absurd discussion.

 

[GYDevil]

Should have just stopped here. Also, comparing Lebron to Goran = still stupid. The fact that you can't grasp the difference between the circumstances gives me no reason to continue this absurd discussion.

So explain the rules to me about when you can compare performances between 2 players? If there a rulebook I should reference? Dragic had one of the greatest performances in playoff history in the 4th Quarter of a game on the road against a team that the Suns could never beat before that point. LeBron had a similarly amazing performance. Each of them have not reached that level since that point. It is a pretty simple comparison actually. Never did I say that there was any comparison beyond that. And I will take your non-response to my Bosh comments to mean that I proved that. Time to take your ball and go home.

 

[SirStefan32]

So explain the rules to me about when you can compare performances between 2 players? If there a rulebook I should reference? Dragic had one of the greatest performances in playoff history in the 4th Quarter of a game on the road against a team that the Suns could never beat before that point. LeBron had a similarly amazing performance. Each of them have not reached that level since that point. It is a pretty simple comparison actually. Never did I say that there was any comparison beyond that. And I will take your non-response to my Bosh comments to mean that I proved that. Time to take your ball and go home.

Are you seriously comparing James and Dragic?

 

[elindholm]

Are you seriously comparing James and Dragic?

Come on, SirStefan, I expect better of you. His point is very clear. James's one big performance against Detroit was no more a guarantor of later success than was Dragic's one big performance against San Antonio. You can agree or not, but it's a perfectly reasonable assertion.

The question isn't whether James is a better player than Dragic, but whether a single explosion in the playoffs is indicative of a player's destiny as a clutch performer.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Come on, SirStefan, I expect better of you. His point is very clear. James's one big performance against Detroit was no more a guarantor of later success than was Dragic's one big performance against San Antonio. You can agree or not, but it's a perfectly reasonable assertion.

The question isn't whether James is a better player than Dragic, but whether a single explosion in the playoffs is indicative of a player's destiny as a clutch performer.

I was under the impression that my point was as well, but let me expand.

When Lebron, probably the most hyped player in NBA history, has a performance like he did in Detroit at 22, putting up 48 points, and scoring the last 25 points for his team (including 28 of 30), it certainly could be inferred at the time that he was ready to make the leap, and that it was a transcendent moment on his road to being the next greatest star. It wasn't just one game either; that game was the culmination of that entire playoff run, where Lebron took a joke of a team on his back to the Finals.

As it is, while he certainly hasn't be clutch, and his playoff performance of '10 was shameful, he's still widely considered the best player in basketball.

Compare that to one half in a game for a backup PG, who got ridiculously hot, and hasn't done crap before or since.

Excellent analogy!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So explain the rules to me about when you can compare performances between 2 players?

You prefer to look at these two situations in a vaccum, with no context. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but it stupid.

And I will take your non-response to my Bosh comments to mean that I proved that. Time to take your ball and go home.

Lol, you didn't prove anything. Again, you made more claims without backing any of them up. Sorry pal, not impressed with your "I used the internet" defense. Regardless, your point has nothing to do with my original comment, that it's funny that they're considered the "big 3", when it should be the Big 2, and Bosh. If you want to continue arguing that, fantastic.

 

[GYDevil]

You prefer to look at these two situations in a vaccum, with no context. That's fine if that's what you want to do, but it stupid.




Lol, you didn't prove anything. Again, you made more claims without backing any of them up. Sorry pal, not impressed with your "I used the internet" defense. Regardless, your point has nothing to do with my original comment, that it's funny that they're considered the "big 3", when it should be the Big 2, and Bosh. If you want to continue arguing that, fantastic.

Fans, players, and coaches have elected Bosh to the All-Star game 6 straight years. Since there are only 24 players total on those rosters I think saying that he is a top-24 player is pretty easy math and some would say he is top-15. So, if you are a team that boasts 3 of the top 15-20 players in the league, I don't think it is out of line to call them the "big 3". But you have your opinion and I respect it, just don't act like it is ridiculous when it clearly is not.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Fans, players, and coaches have elected Bosh to the All-Star game 6 straight years. Since there are only 24 players total on those rosters I think saying that he is a top-24 player is pretty easy math and some would say he is top-15. So, if you are a team that boasts 3 of the top 15-20 players in the league, I don't think it is out of line to call them the "big 3". But you have your opinion and I respect it, just don't act like it is ridiculous when it clearly is not.

You won't find me arguing that he isn't a top 30 player, arguable about top 25. I just don't think it's fair to talk about him in the same breath as two top 5 players. Regardless, we're splitting hairs at this point.

 

[GYDevil]

You won't find me arguing that he isn't a top 30 player, arguable about top 25. I just don't think it's fair to talk about him in the same breath as two top 5 players. Regardless, we're splitting hairs at this point.

Agreed. Plus, two guys with obvious ties to ASU need to stick together. Your avatar is very appropriate, whether it be ASU Sports, Suns or anything else in AZ at this point.

 

[leclerc]

I was very disappointed in giving up on Dragic and including the 1st round pick but I'm getting over it... Brooks has been decent and I hope he gets healthy and more playing time. Nash needs the rest so he's good to go for the playoffs. Loosing Frye makes that hard now though...

 

[Mainstreet]

I was very disappointed in giving up on Dragic and including the 1st round pick but I'm getting over it... Brooks has been decent and I hope he gets healthy and more playing time. Nash needs the rest so he's good to go for the playoffs. Loosing Frye makes that hard now though...

Losing that first round pick is really starting to grind on me. Although Brooks is a RFA, the Suns could still lose him even if there is an agreement with the new CBA. That second first round pick could have helped the Suns move up in the draft or address two positions. Someway, the Suns need to get another pick in the draft.

 

[Covert Rain]

Losing that first round pick is really starting to grind on me. Although Brooks is a RFA, the Suns could still lose him even if there is an agreement with the new CBA. That second first round pick could have helped the Suns move up in the draft or address two positions. Someway, the Suns need to get another pick in the draft.

This isn't the NFL and usually in the NBA moving up in the draft is very difficult and seldom happens. In the past with the Suns have had to picks they have usually either used them or traded one of them away for salary reasons. I would have had almost zero confidence that the Suns could have parlayed multiple picks to move up.

Also, to address two positions you would have to assume the team wouldn't be getting a "project" at that pick. There have been some good players taken around there but odds are against you getting anything other than a project. So, drafting there probably wouldn't address anything.