East Valley Tribune: Suns might be active in free agent market

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
East Valley Tribune

Suns might be active in free agent market
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
The Suns, the kingpins of the free agent market a decade ago, might have a chance to re-establish themselves as a major player this summer. But first, they need to reduce their contractual obligations.

That's why it's believed Suns president Bryan Colangelo is among the NBA's most active club officials as Thursday's trade deadline approaches.

The Suns will have about $39 million in committed salaries for next season, counting two first-round picks. That will give them about $7 million in salary-cap space to dangle in front of free agents.

To get a superstar such as Kobe Bryant — and the Philadelphia Inquirer on Friday said that "Rumors are gaining momentum that Bryant could end up with the Clippers or the Suns, assuming he's not convicted of sexual assault" — the Suns likely will have to get rid of a player (such as Jahidi White) and one of those draft picks to get $12 million to $14 million under the cap.

"One more transaction could put us in position" to have maximum flexibility, said Suns chairman Jerry Colangelo, who said his son "has been very active" as the trade deadline approaches. "The more (salary) space that we have, the better prepared we are going forward in terms of free agents, whether that means one player or two players."

Colangelo would not comment on Bryant or anybody else. But reading between the lines of his comments, you get the feeling the Suns might be looking in directions other than the Lakers' star.

"You don't want to duplicate what you already have at any one position," he said, noting that "Joe Johnson has emerged at his position."

Both Bryant and Johnson are primarily offguards.

THANKS WILLIAMS
Scott Williams knows a few teams in the Western Conference owe him a debt of thanks. In fact, he’s probably playing for one of them.

The ex-Sun's biggest claim to fame this season is that he’s the player who got tangled up with Karl Malone in a collision that sent the Laker to the injured list for the first time in his 19-year NBA career.

Williams figures to have a bigger impact for the Mavericks before this season is done. But he knows the rest of the league views him as the player who knocked out Malone.

"I expected a few Christmas cards, at least from a few teams," Williams said. "But I didn’t get any."

Williams has been saddened by Malone’s injury, which has kept him on the sideline since before Christmas.

Original estimates by the Lakers were that Malone would miss three games. Williams knew that prognosis was too optimistic.

"I was surprised by that, and I was surprised he was able to go out and shoot his free throws afterward because everything I’ve ever heard about players who hear that “pop’’ is that they think it’s pretty significant,’’ Williams said.

"And there was no doubt I heard that freakish 'pop.' I almost wonder if they didn’t know a little bit more than they let on."

REGGIE ON TARGET
Reggie Miller hit 36-of-66 3-pointers over the last 15 games before the break. His season percentage (.425) is better than in all but two of his 16 previous seasons. He ranks No. 8 in the NBA in 3-point percentage, tied with Peja Stojakovic. He’s taken more attempts than everyone ahead of him in the rankings.

Miller hit all five 3-point attempts against Miami on Sunday, including the game-breaker. Coach Stan Van Gundy wasn’t surprised. He noticed Miller taking early shooting practice when his team arrived for the game, and made sure to point it out to his players.

"He's been in the league 17 years, but he’s still here early every day doing his shooting," Van Gundy said. "You don't see younger guys out there, you see him. He's the consummate pro. It's not an accident when the ball goes in."

Writers from around the NBA contributed to this report.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Jerry, say what you want.
You don't make an attempt to sign a top5 player because one of your young players played like one during a 20-game streak of bad games?

Jerry has become very very sensitive when it comes about trade targets or FAs.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
21,978
Reaction score
11,708
Location
Laveen, AZ
"You don't want to duplicate what you already have at any one position," he said, noting that "Joe Johnson has emerged at his position."

YESSSSS!!! This is the best off season quote I have heard yet!! We NEED a big man in the middle, NOT another small player!! I have been dreading these Kobe rumors all off season!! :)
 
OP
OP
George O'Brien

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Originally posted by Yuma
YESSSSS!!! This is the best off season quote I have heard yet!! We NEED a big man in the middle, NOT another small player!! I have been dreading these Kobe rumors all off season!! :)

Absolutely.

I suspect that the key here is to think in terms of a trade which uses the cap space rather than going after an FA big man.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,201
Reaction score
9,036
Location
L.A. area
I've said this before, but I really had overlooked the possibility of using the cap space to trade for a disgruntled star. That opens up a world of possibilities. It's fairly difficult to go after a marquee free agent, since there really aren't that many and they all want top dollar. But targeting a player who wants out while being able to absorb a salary hit is a pretty intriguing scenario.

So, let me make the preliminary confession that I am no longer quite so down on the Marbury trade. I think there will be better options out there than overpaying for Camby or Dampier, and I'm open to the possibility that the Colangelos might be able to take advantage of those options.
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Originally posted by elindholm
I've said this before, but I really had overlooked the possibility of using the cap space to trade for a disgruntled star. That opens up a world of possibilities.

Did someone read one of my posts finally??????
 
OP
OP
George O'Brien

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Originally posted by elindholm
I've said this before, but I really had overlooked the possibility of using the cap space to trade for a disgruntled star. That opens up a world of possibilities. It's fairly difficult to go after a marquee free agent, since there really aren't that many and they all want top dollar. But targeting a player who wants out while being able to absorb a salary hit is a pretty intriguing scenario.

So, let me make the preliminary confession that I am no longer quite so down on the Marbury trade. I think there will be better options out there than overpaying for Camby or Dampier, and I'm open to the possibility that the Colangelos might be able to take advantage of those options.

Ok, who is this really? This CANNOT be elindholm. :D

I have to agree about Camby and Dampier. The chances of them being available at a reasonable price seems pretty remote - more in terms of the length of their contracts than for the amount.

If the Suns cannot trade for a big man, then all FA contracts should be short.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,201
Reaction score
9,036
Location
L.A. area
Did someone read one of my posts finally??????

Yeah, whenever it was that I made my first post about liking the trade scenario. :p
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Haha, well I get so excited when someone replies to things I write.

I sometimes get the feeling that I use this board more for a journal of my basketball thoughts instead of for communication with other fans :p
 

sly fly

Devil Me This
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Posts
2,469
Reaction score
0
Location
N. Phx
Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Haha, well I get so excited when someone replies to things I write.

I sometimes get the feeling that I use this board more for a journal of my basketball thoughts instead of for communication with other fans :p

What did you say?





:D
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
45,888
Reaction score
16,175
Location
Round Rock, TX
Originally posted by elindholm
I've said this before, but I really had overlooked the possibility of using the cap space to trade for a disgruntled star.

Like who?? :confused:
 

cardsunsfan

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Posts
4,735
Reaction score
162
Location
Arizona
Who could we trade for that would help us win a championship?! There really are only so many great big men out there. At least with Kobe I think we'll have at least a small chance in the future to win a championship...
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
Well a lot depends on different situations. The star doesn't have to be disgruntled, the team could jsut be wanting to dump space like the suns and hawks did.

Another benefit of taking on big salaries is they usually only have a year or 2 left on their deals. It can be another way of preserving cap space.

For example, Portland gave away about 23 million in expiring contracts for Ratliff and Abdur Rahim. However both their deals expire in 2005, so they actually get a little bit more space that summer.

Flexibilty is an awesome thing. It just opens to doors to what ever might be thrown your way. It usually means you will get many more opporunities in the trade market as well. Just like SA got Hedo and Mercer for free last summer.

Now I am not saying they shouldn't stay away from signing Kobe so that they could get someone else in a trade, however it isn't the end all if we cannot sign Kobe, since we will have other opportunities as the season goes on.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
62,375
Reaction score
55,698
Location
SoCal
Originally posted by Chaplin
Like who?? :confused:

my question exactly. is there a "disgruntled" big man "star" out there that we could trade for (and what MORE do we have to trade?) that would be as talented as kobe (for whom we'd have to trade nobody if we signed him as a FA)?
 

thegrahamcrackr

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Posts
6,168
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale, Az
You guys are missing the point. The player doesnt have to be disgruntled, the team just has to want out of his contract.

The main arguement against the trade was that there were no guarantees about landing a start with the cap space. No one knows if Kobe will even consider the suns, and at this point I would say there is no more than a 10% chance he wears purple and orange next year.

With a trade, it doesn't matter what the player wants. You will never get a superstar player like kobe in a salary dump trade, but you can get a very talanted allstar.

The trade point was brought up to quiet the people (Eric :D ) who disliked the marbury deal because they didn't believe we could land a star with the money.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
62,375
Reaction score
55,698
Location
SoCal
Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
You guys are missing the point. The player doesnt have to be disgruntled, the team just has to want out of his contract.

The main arguement against the trade was that there were no guarantees about landing a start with the cap space. No one knows if Kobe will even consider the suns, and at this point I would say there is no more than a 10% chance he wears purple and orange next year.

With a trade, it doesn't matter what the player wants. You will never get a superstar player like kobe in a salary dump trade, but you can get a very talanted allstar.

The trade point was brought up to quiet the people (Eric :D ) who disliked the marbury deal because they didn't believe we could land a star with the money.

i don't think we're missing the point, really. i understand that the trade avenue offers us another way to use the cap space. but my questions are these:

if we're worried about signing a player at one of our "filled" positions (i.e. kobe for sg), what center or pg are we trading for ('cuz ostensibly the sg-jj, sf-marion, and pf-amare slots are already "filled")? who is looking to dump a center or pg? and what would we have to give up in return? what all-star could we get and what's the added expense?
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,491
Reaction score
910
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Since when was signing an all-star a requirement? Sacramento and Dallas are two of the best teams in the NBA, and each of them only have one all-star. On the other hand the Phoenix Suns could always trade JJ or even Shawn Marion (much more difficult) if they are worried about having good players playing the same position.

I probably won't complain either way as long as they don't get somebody like Okur or Q.Richardson $7-8 million per season.

Joe Mama
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
62,375
Reaction score
55,698
Location
SoCal
Originally posted by Joe Mama
Since when was signing an all-star a requirement? Sacramento and Dallas are two of the best teams in the NBA, and each of them only have one all-star. On the other hand the Phoenix Suns could always trade JJ or even Shawn Marion (much more difficult) if they are worried about having good players playing the same position.

I probably won't complain either way as long as they don't get somebody like Okur or Q.Richardson $7-8 million per season.

Joe Mama

i suppose an all-star is not a requirement, but we're talkin' what we hope to gain in having traded away a sometimes-all-star in marbury, so i figured we'd want something of equal value in the eventual return. i suppose equal value could manifest itself in multi-not-quite-all-stars-level-talented players too.

and i'll puke if we sign an okur or Q for that kind of money. besides, wouldn't signing Q be crowding one of our "filled" positions the same way signing kobe would?
 

Billythekid

All Star
Joined
Oct 11, 2002
Posts
693
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by Joe Mama
Since when was signing an all-star a requirement? Sacramento and Dallas are two of the best teams in the NBA, and each of them only have one all-star.

Sorry Joe. gotta agree, and disagree with this evaluation. I put VERY little on the term 'all star' these days. i would rather have good solid players and a few real good players. :)

Dallas and Sacramento might only have 1 allstar THIS season but both are LOADED with good quality players. LOADED! And with all stars changing from year to year teams possess allstars from previous years, so it's a hard to label a team that possess current allstar saying thats all they have. Obviously you don't do it to the silly point. Googs was an allstar :thumbup: . With Sac Brad Miller was an allstar. C Webb too. Peja also. Thats 3 allstars the Kings have. and Dallas possess quite a few also.

Bottom line, i put more stock in a team of good, smart players. Thats what will win you games. And both those teams are extremely deep with solid ball players.
 

newfan101

Registered
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Posts
531
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix
Originally posted by Billythekid


Bottom line, i put more stock in a team of good, smart players. Thats what will win you games. And both those teams are extremely deep with solid ball players.

It may win you games, but it doesn't win you championships. I hate to get into this debate again, but 1 or 2 super, elite, or as elindholm puts it, "r00lers" wins championships, not a bunch of nice smart players. Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, etc..... were all at the top of the game, and that's why they have rings. Dallas, as nice as they are, will never win a championship with their current roster.
 
Last edited:

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,201
Reaction score
9,036
Location
L.A. area
SunCardfan:

Who could we trade for that would help us win a championship?! There really are only so many great big men out there.

I didn't say that the disgruntled star had to be a big man. I think that overpaying for a big man would be a grave error. You can get more for your money at any other position.

Paul Pierce has already been mentioned multiple times as a possibility, and while he may or may not be realistic, it does seem possible that the Celtics may try to move him. It would be a lot easier to make a trade for someone like Pierce if they had some salary room to play with.

Other elite players who might conceivably get moved in the next year or two include Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, and surely several others. Some of those players wouldn't be likely Suns targets, but the point is, players do change teams, and it's a heck of a lot easier to get in on the bidding when you have some flexibility in making the numbers line up.

Joe Mama:

Sacramento and Dallas are two of the best teams in the NBA, and each of them only have one all-star.

Dallas has no chance of winning a championship as constituted, and the Kings have no chance without Webber, who would be a second All-Star. Championship contenders need top stars, not just many very good players.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,201
Reaction score
9,036
Location
L.A. area
or as elindholm puts it, "rOOlers"

LOL, thanks for the attribution. But it's spelled with zeroes, not letter-O's. R00lers.
 

newfan101

Registered
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Posts
531
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix
Originally posted by elindholm
or as elindholm puts it, "rOOlers"

LOL, thanks for the attribution. But it's spelled with zeroes, not letter-O's. R00lers.

ahhh ... sorry for butchering your line.:)
 
OP
OP
George O'Brien

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
The debate is pretty abstract. How many 2nd tier players equal one 1st tier level players? Unless you are talking about particular players and who is involved, it is not realistic to say.

As a general rule, I would rather focus on upgrading the weakest position than to do a max deal on a position that is already pretty strong. But I am sure there are exceptions.

BTW, I'm not convinced that PG will be a major Suns priority unless they can somehow move Eisley. Barbosa shows great promise and Vujanic is considered an excellant prospetct.

If Eisley is moved, drafting someone like Jameer Nelson of St. Joseph's is a real possibility: 20.2 ppg, 5.3 assists per game, 4.5 rpg, 3.4 steals per game.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,201
Reaction score
9,036
Location
L.A. area
How many 2nd tier players equal one 1st tier level players?

An infinite number. If you're competing for a title, you can have all the 2nd-tier players you want, but you'll still be inferior to a team with a 1st-tier player and a solid supporting cast. Look at the current Mavericks, the Sonics of the mid-90s, or the Blazers of the early 90s as recent examples of deep, good-player-laden teams who didn't have any one single player good enough to lead the way. (You could count the '93 Suns also, although the argument is hard to make when the inferior team has the league MVP on it. :shrug: )
 
Top