Ed Burmila opinions on loss to Giants

[Arizona's Finest]

I agree that we need to wait and give this line time to develop some chemistry (I think K-9 made a good point in saying Green knew this offensive ineptitude would prevail over the first half of the season and he knew we would rely on our defense at least iniitally) but the reaiity is that this present group will never be elite as a unit (unless Elton Brown and Davis start to fulfill expectations which is not likely this season)but they could improve from bad to servicable, possibly soon. That would make us a 9 and 10 win team with a good oline being our biggest weakness. The dline, lb, secondary, wr, qbs, and kicker all showed flashed of being very good units.

Lets look at this from the worst case scenario angle: Lets say the line plays very poorly all year and we go 6-10 again. DG knows how important good offensive lines are to high powered offenses (see 90's Vikings)Green will get one more year to work it out. and the draft is heavy on offensive linemen and th free agent class offers many upgrades. I think Warner (or any other qb of a comparable level) will take this team with a good offensive line pretty far with that unit improved.

 

[jstadvl]

For two years

this O line has been a wreck. No consistency, people in and out of every position. It's amazing all of our QB's are still walking.
I agree they need time, but, they need time playing consistently with one another. If we don't get settled down soon, we're in for a long year.
I agree with forty, the talent is there,
But, it was only one game. I know we don't want to go down by 2. i'm thinking we'll see different production from everyone this week.
Our biggest loss this week was hodgins.
Berry's back must be bothering him more than he's letting on.
Warner has to be a bit more accurate.

 

[Redsz]

Get over the Kendall thing already. He is gone. I am so tired of reading about him.

 

[CardNots]

This might be the best thread I have read recently. Wow, all the big hitters are in this one. Entertaining to say the least.

We have all been through this cycle before.

We are Cardinals fans, this is what we do.

Our season starts at game 13. We jockey for a top ten pick. Top five the better. Why you say? The press we get and the guessing who we will pick is akin to shopping. Exciting.

We get diverted by Free Agency for awhile then comes the draft and the hope is burning brightly. Speculation abounds during this time and just maybe this is the greatest time for a fan.

The mini camps begin. Just too much fun. More Free Agency.

Next the dreaded 31 day prison term during July. Almost no activity but excitement about preseason is high.

Signings are happening and everyone is talking.

Ah, camp begins and we get reports from practice. Great time to be a fan. We finnally get to see our team play mock games. We see the good and bad.

And yes the season begins on opening day. By the end of the game hope begins to be replaced by reality. We will struggle through countless games, up and down.

Game 13 will be here soon, and the cycle of being a Cardinal fan starts again.

Damn, I love this...

 

[kerouac9]

I don't see why Green would think the offense is goign to blow so let's play a young OL, he's got a proven veteran QB, talented WR's and a RB he personally wanted. But for some reason he chose to make no effort at TE and go with the OL that we're now debating.

Green's no dope. He knows who Warner is and saw him play with the Giants and knew (as anyone who's seen Warner for who he has been the past two-plus years) that the guy didn't have much left in the tank. Is he a better option at QB than McCown because of his experience and decision-making? Yeah. Is he maybe a better leader--or at least could be until the season starts to tank? Yeah, probably. But does anyone really think that he could wing the ball around like Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, or Daunte Culpepper did in their heydays with the Vikes? Not anyone that'd seen them lately.

He had to know that the offense was going to struggle early because of his experience with Bennett's rookie season in Minny. Without a running game, the passing game is going to be tough. He knew that he's going to have to throw it 30-35 times a game to stay competitive until Arrington got his feet under him. I think that what he couldn't have anticipated was that the special teams was going to be pretty sad both offensively and defensively. Green probably thought he could limp through the first quarter of the season 2-2, maybe even 1-3. I'm certain that the injuries to Stepanovich and Ross really worried Denny, but what could he do at that point?

Brown did fine. I'm putting a lot of the debacle last Sunday on Lynch. But I don't know how you can pump up Dave Bass, considering recent reports on him:

Heading into training camp, there were many who viewed Niners second-round pick David Baas as an instant starter at right guard. But we hear Baas has been set back dramatically after missing training camp due to injuries, and that it could be a while before he sees significant action.

What could you possibly have seen from him?

 

[JeffGollin]

Fact: Cutting Pete Kendall was, and remains, an asinine move.
So was trading Ollie Matson. Get over it.

Fact: Oliver Ross is a big, fat bust.
Whenever anyone says: "Fact", it invariably means "Opinion."

Fact: Leonard Davis is a big, fat bust.
Opinion.


Fact: The lack of a real TE is killing this team.
#1. Opinion. #2. We had one in FJ but there wasn't much positive impact when he was here or negative impact when he left.

Fact: JJ Arrington is useless in this offense.
1. Opinion. 2. Walter Peyton would be useless running behind a line anchored by a 5th string center.

Fact: Bad tackling persists everywhere.
Yup. A fact - at least in the Giant game.

Fact: All is not lost for 2005.
1. Opinion. 2. But I agree.

Two things, and only two things, sunk the Cardinals on Sunday: poor tackling and poor O-Line play.
Hmmm. Being caught out of position on defense and coverage teams represents "Thing #3.".

Fact: This team is still capable of making the playoffs.
Opinion. I don't know if this team is capable of making the playoffs. I don't know if they're not. We are what we are (0 & 1. Not 8 & 8 or worse - yet).

Last word - We all tend to overreact to what happens in the most recent game. While performance in a game is probably a better predictor of how we'll do in future games than not having anything to go by, there are plenty of examples of teams who sucked in one game who went on to perform well in subsequent games.

My hope is that (a) Step & Leckey for Lynch will dramatically change our run blocking and (b) coverage teams deficiencies can be fixed. The one thing that terrifies me, however, is the prospect that "stoutness against the inside run" is not a learned skill.

 

[Russ Smith]

Brown did fine. I'm putting a lot of the debacle last Sunday on Lynch. But I don't know how you can pump up Dave Bass, considering recent reports on him:



What could you possibly have seen from him?

Baas drew raves during rookie and minicamp before he pulled a hammy. He played briefly in the San Diego game at RG and for a guy who'd missed all of camp he looked pretty good although obviously it was against backups.

Baas and Snyder are both pretty versatile guys, NFL.com lists Snyder as the backup RG and backup RT but I think they have it backwards I believe Baas is the backup RG and Snyder at LG. Baas also was slated to take reps at C in case Newberry can't make the whole season with his bad knee, when Baas got hurt Heitmann took those snaps at C. So Heitmann is listed at the backup C but I suspect if Newberry gets hurt Baas will be the guy who replaces him.

Kid is really good the typical Michigan OL, well coached, nasty streak, was really hoping we'd find a way to draft him. Snyder is talented too. Neither has Brown's size or strength mind you, just a lot more developed, Brown is a guy who just overpowered people in college, he needs a lot of coaching.

I guess I don't understand why Green figuring JJ would take time means you would relax on the OL, to me it would imply you'd FOCUS on the OL to make the transition easier on the rookie RB?

Oh well, what's done is done, we can't have the offseason back and nobody is going to cut a good OL or trade one right now so hopefully Rowen's influence can get this current OL on track.

 

[duckfallas]

I haven't noticed any difference between the Oline when Kendall was here and the one playing Sunday. Couldn't run block then either.

There was a difference between the Olines when Selby/Devlin/and Redmon played in the middle. Now that was a terrible offensive line.

Exactly! Why do people keep blaming the fact that this line sucks on Green's Kendall cut? Kendall is not that good. I don't care if he made the pro bowl as an alternate last year, I was never that impressed with him when he was a Cardinal. The line sucked as bad, or even worse, when he was here.

As for Ross, the guy has been hurt all camp and into the season so he has looked like crap when he has played. It is a convenient time to point the finger and say "this guy sucks", but the truth is we haven't seen him play healthy.

I don't agree at all about Big. He rarely gives up a sack and he does a good job in the running game. So far this year he has not looked as good as last season so I wonder if he is hurting too. At times, he plays kind of stiff and upright like Clement use to when his back bothered him. Has anyone else noticed that?

I think the biggest problem with this O line right now is a lack of quality depth. It is banged up and the players that needed to fill in and step up are not there. Like Ian Allen. I don't understand what the coaches see in him. Must be a good practice player. This is where Shelton could have been a big asset. Sure, he would have been overpaid for a backup but he is a far better player than any of the backups they have now.

Green is right when he says the best O lines are ones that have continuity. You can keep changing the pieces, but sooner or later you have to pick 5 guys and let them play together for a season or two before you can say if they are any good or not. Even though this 5 is off to a slow start, I'm willing to give them a chance to gell over the season to see if they can become decent before labeling the entire line a bust.

 

[duckfallas]

My hope is that (a) Step & Leckey for Lynch will dramatically change our run blocking and (b) coverage teams deficiencies can be fixed. The one thing that terrifies me, however, is the prospect that "stoutness against the inside run" is not a learned skill.

Speaking of stoutness against the inside run, maybe it is time to run that Russell Davis article again.

Draft priority #1 next season. Get a real freakin nose tackle!

 

[joeshmo]

My only opinion on your article is the mention of Pete Kendall. He is gone, we need to let go. Whether you agree or not with Coach Green he is gone. He had only one year left on his contract so Kendall may have chosen to leave the Cards on his own rather than stay. So to say he would make a difference on this unit this year is not valid.

Very, Very good point about this year. So you are correct that Kendall making a difference this year is not valid at all. So make your arguements about last years oline but for this years oline its an empty arguement.

 

[john h]

I can't believe I'm saying this because I understand why Green cut Pete and while I disagree, it was part of his overall method as a coach so I dealt with it.

But to say we weren't any better with Kendall is missing the point. You don't improve a weak area by cutting your best players and replacing them with journeymen. Green made a point by cutting Kendall, that's his right, but he hasn't upgraded the talent on the OL at all with his surgeries to date. If Kendall were still here this OL would be better, unless you believe Pete was a cancer that was going to tear this team apart, and if that's the case, I would argue the OL should be BETTER because Kendall is gone, it's not.

Green made a statement, the team heard it loud and clear, but the problem is he didn't follow through with more talent and a better coach instead he brought in journeymen and hired a guy with about a month of coaching experience. If the season goes in the can and Green gets fired is any other NFL team going to hire Lindsay as OL coach?

I think you have it spot on Russ and I could not say it any better.

 

[john h]

Everybody needs to let the Pete Kendall thing go.....

I have not got over the Cubs letting Lou Brock go to St Louis. Kendall was just let go two years ago so I have hardly have had time to let that go.

 

[john h]

My only opinion on your article is the mention of Pete Kendall. He is gone, we need to let go. Whether you agree or not with Coach Green he is gone. He had only one year left on his contract so Kendall may have chosen to leave the Cards on his own rather than stay. So to say he would make a difference on this unit this year is not valid.

Let's see if the O-line can get it done this week against St. Louis. They were pretty tight against the Niners so don't expect alot of running yards this week either. I just hope Warner can stay sharp and stay clean and get Q a TD this week.

Yes Pete is gone but Coach needs to learn a lesson himself from this. You do not throw a decent player away if you do not have some one as good to replace him. History is a great teacher so Coach and fans should never forget Pete Kendall lest Coach does the same thing again. I am sure he knows the fans have not forgotten Pete Kendall.

 

[john h]

I agree that we need to wait and give this line time to develop some chemistry (I think K-9 made a good point in saying Green knew this offensive ineptitude would prevail over the first half of the season and he knew we would rely on our defense at least iniitally) but the reaiity is that this present group will never be elite as a unit (unless Elton Brown and Davis start to fulfill expectations which is not likely this season)but they could improve from bad to servicable, possibly soon. That would make us a 9 and 10 win team with a good oline being our biggest weakness. The dline, lb, secondary, wr, qbs, and kicker all showed flashed of being very good units.

Lets look at this from the worst case scenario angle: Lets say the line plays very poorly all year and we go 6-10 again. DG knows how important good offensive lines are to high powered offenses (see 90's Vikings)Green will get one more year to work it out. and the draft is heavy on offensive linemen and th free agent class offers many upgrades. I think Warner (or any other qb of a comparable level) will take this team with a good offensive line pretty far with that unit improved.

Even if the draft is full of good offensive lineman it takes a couple of years or more to put together a good offensive line that works well together and understands each others abilities. The offensive line position is one of the tougher positions to learn. So far we have gone backwards with our offensive line and I do not see this group as an effective OL in the near future if ever. If they do not do well this year we are not going into the new stadium with much hope of making the playoffs. Many of us had that as sort of a goal.

 

[john h]

This might be the best thread I have read recently. Wow, all the big hitters are in this one. Entertaining to say the least.

We have all been through this cycle before.

We are Cardinals fans, this is what we do.

Our season starts at game 13. We jockey for a top ten pick. Top five the better. Why you say? The press we get and the guessing who we will pick is akin to shopping. Exciting.

We get diverted by Free Agency for awhile then comes the draft and the hope is burning brightly. Speculation abounds during this time and just maybe this is the greatest time for a fan.

The mini camps begin. Just too much fun. More Free Agency.

Next the dreaded 31 day prison term during July. Almost no activity but excitement about preseason is high.

Signings are happening and everyone is talking.

Ah, camp begins and we get reports from practice. Great time to be a fan. We finnally get to see our team play mock games. We see the good and bad.

And yes the season begins on opening day. By the end of the game hope begins to be replaced by reality. We will struggle through countless games, up and down.

Game 13 will be here soon, and the cycle of being a Cardinal fan starts again.

Damn, I love this...

Great post! Dam! Great post. You have a deep understanding of what it takes to be a Cardinal fan. The more things change the more they remain the same. As Cardinal fans we need to adapt like Cub Fans: "just wait until next year" is our mantra.

 

[duckfallas]

I forgot Pete Kendall the day he was cut.

That O line sucked bag and Kendall was right in the middle. Overpaid and underperformed. I'm glad Green did something about it and started shifting some of that dough around. The investment in the previous O line was a huge failure.

 

[red desert]

Not a bad article Ed and right on with your assessments. Someone needs to light a fire under this team. The talent is there, but it is young and it needs a true leader. Hopefully this Sunday will show us the team we all thought we had.

Here here.

 

[red desert]

I think this article is one of Ed's best, if not the best. It is thoughtfully written and it makes timely, accurate points...such as Leonard Davis' draft class turning out to be a poor one...the offensive linemen the Cards' passed up at $1M a year, all of whom are better fits than Ross...and Pete Kendall's replacement becoming Bridges, who is now trying to find a spot with another team.

Yes, Dennis Green is a draft expert...plain and simple. And most of the free agent moves he's made have been excellent...especially the signing of Bertrand Berry.

However, it's mystifying that a so-called offensive guru like Green could possibly think he could win with the offensive linemen he has...particularly at the three interior spots. Sure, Step and Brown may develop, but they've been thrown in there way too early. Wells, well, all one has to do is watch him try to run block and one will know he simply doesn't have the girth or the strength to do it. So the team is stuck without a running game for another year. "We want to be able to run the football consistently," Green keeps saying ad nauseum.

Compounding the matter, is Green's absurd decision to promote Everett Lindsay to offensive line coach. As bad as the offensive line was last year, Lindsay couldn't even make the team. He's not served long enough as an apprentice to understand what it takes to be a good coach, both from a motivation and a technical standpoint. And yet, he's the coach whether any of us like it or not.

In the interim, we the fans will have to sit through 16 games of watching J.J. Arrington get hammered before he can muster up a yard of momentum...and without a running game, how long will it take for the oft-injured Kurt Warner to limp off the field with a concussion or a serious knee injury?

Bill Parcells left New England because as he put it, "If I'm cooking the meal, I want to shop for the groceries." Well, Dennis Green has brought home some filet mignons in Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Bryant Johnson, J.J. Arrington and Marcel Shipp...but forgot to buy the charcoal briquettes...and those filets aint gonna get hot sitting on a cold grill. The neglecting of the ineterior three o-line spots is a real oversight...one that many of us have been scratching our heads over for two years now after the one bona fide player on the roster was sent packing...and Ed was even kind to not mention L.J. Shelton, who, when healthy and properly coached, is hands-down better than any offensive lineman on the current roster, save the uninspired Davis.

Absolutely agree. Absolutely.

 

[red desert]

Everybody needs to let the Pete Kendall thing go.....

Why? That decision is still hurting the team. Only when we correct that mistake will it be time to let it go, IMO.