Edge Rusher Options at #7: Jones, Werner, Ansah, Mingo, Jordan

[NashDishesDimes]

basically my thoughts. Would be cool to take a beast pass-rusher, but with all the 1st round worthy talent on the OL, I think it's foolish to not take one of the 3 almost guaranteed to be there for us. Whether Joeckel, Warmack or Fisher (who after reading his draft profile, looks pretty damn versatile, playing RT, LT, and RG)

Sadly i agree. Doesnt matter how good the D is if the offense cant move the ball at all. With Warmack and Levi at least the Cards can run the ball a little bit. Focus on OL this year and then the Cards shouldnt have to think about it too much for the next 5 years. Id like Warmack in 1st, Warford in 2nd, and Matt Scott in 3rd if hes there.

 

[Snakester]

I am with you, Gary.

However, if Mingo gets in the right system with the right coaches and adds 20 pounds of strength---watch out. He could be an even faster version of Aldon Smith.

This is why first round picks are so tenuous---because you really hope to draft a sure thing type of player in the first round especially in the top ten, where you cannot afford to miss.

But---therefore how comfortable can a team be drafting for potential in the first round?

At least the new draft salary structure makes it more appealing to draft for potential.

Lastly, about Mingo, he's the type of player i would want to research in terms of personality and maturity---I read that he and fellow LSU DE Sam Montgomery were betting on personal stats and that the two of them were not exactly endearing themselves to the LSU coaches.

Personality---in the first round---matters. It matters a lot. Wouldn't you say?

I agree. Mingo is a top 20 athlete but if you go off of production he is a third rounder. I would not draft him in the top ten. I do think that this is the year we finally draft either a pass rusher or an O-lineman with our first pick. I would love to see us bring back both Karlos Dansby and Kerry Rhodes to shore up the defense. Bringing them back and adding a pass rusher would make our D complete.

 

[Sunburn]

I'm puzzled. You say you get the sense the Cardinals want guys that are strong and punishing, and are less likely to select guys that "rely primarily on speed and quickness". But then, your best choices for the Cardinals, other than Ansah, seem to be guys that rely on speed and quickness.

Jarvis Jones
Quickness and alertness are his forte
Areas in which he struggles: Holding and maintaining the edge

Dion Jordan
Supremely athletic
Quick and speedy off the edge
Lacks requisite NFL edge strength

Barkevious Mingo
Tremendously quick first step
Blazingly fast crashing, stunting and rushing to the inside
Quick and naturally athletic
Plays tentatively---as if he's thinking too much
Doesn't break down well on runs to his side
Gets little push after hard contact, especially on pass rush

The one guy, other than Ansah, that seems to fit your description of what the Cardinals are looking for you have ranked last:

Bjoern Werner
Maintains the edge well---
Physical at the point of attack

If you have time, would you explain?

 

[52brandon]

I'm puzzled. You say you get the sense the Cardinals want guys that are strong and punishing, and are less likely to select guys that "rely primarily on speed and quickness". But then, your best choices for the Cardinals, other than Ansah, seem to be guys that rely on speed and quickness.

Jarvis Jones
Quickness and alertness are his forte
Areas in which he struggles: Holding and maintaining the edge

Dion Jordan
Supremely athletic
Quick and speedy off the edge
Lacks requisite NFL edge strength

Barkevious Mingo
Tremendously quick first step
Blazingly fast crashing, stunting and rushing to the inside
Quick and naturally athletic
Plays tentatively---as if he's thinking too much
Doesn't break down well on runs to his side
Gets little push after hard contact, especially on pass rush

The one guy, other than Ansah, that seems to fit your description of what the Cardinals are looking for you have ranked last:

Bjoern Werner
Maintains the edge well---
Physical at the point of attack

If you have time, would you explain?

he sounds like a 3-4 DE, we've already got 2 outstanding players there, why would the Cardinals be looking for that?

 

[Sunburn]

he sounds like a 3-4 DE, we've already got 2 outstanding players there, why would the Cardinals be looking for that?

My point is not to advocate for Bjoern Werner. My point is:

I'm puzzled. You say you get the sense the Cardinals want guys that are strong and punishing, and are less likely to select guys that "rely primarily on speed and quickness". But then, your best choices for the Cardinals, other than Ansah, seem to be guys that rely on speed and quickness.

 

[Mitch]

I'm puzzled. You say you get the sense the Cardinals want guys that are strong and punishing, and are less likely to select guys that "rely primarily on speed and quickness". But then, your best choices for the Cardinals, other than Ansah, seem to be guys that rely on speed and quickness.

Jarvis Jones
Quickness and alertness are his forte
Areas in which he struggles: Holding and maintaining the edge

Dion Jordan
Supremely athletic
Quick and speedy off the edge
Lacks requisite NFL edge strength

Barkevious Mingo
Tremendously quick first step
Blazingly fast crashing, stunting and rushing to the inside
Quick and naturally athletic
Plays tentatively---as if he's thinking too much
Doesn't break down well on runs to his side
Gets little push after hard contact, especially on pass rush

The one guy, other than Ansah, that seems to fit your description of what the Cardinals are looking for you have ranked last:

Bjoern Werner
Maintains the edge well---
Physical at the point of attack

If you have time, would you explain?

Excellent question, itinsunsfan---

It's the 34 OLB conundrum---you would like to draft an edge player in the first round who is a 3 down player---34OLB and nickel DE--

I was making the case as to why Ansah might be the top choice---Werner looks like more of a 43 DE, while the others look like stronger 34OLB choices---but, if the Cardinals feel as if Werner can be effective as a 34OLB then he might be higher on their board than I projected.

The Steelers' 34OLB criteria starts with: (a) being physical and strong enough to hold and maintain the edge; (b) being able to bull rush the QB...and it seems to me that the Cardinals are now adopting the same 34OLB philosophy.

The bottom line is---it's a rarity to find edge strength and speed wrapped up in one player---and Ziggy Ansah has both.

As for Jones, Jordan and Mingo---the have the athleticism, can they add the strength?

Werner has the strength, can he be an effective 34OLB edge athlete?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Dion Jordan is about the only guy I would take at 7 and he looks like he may be gone by then. In a couple years Jordan will have added strength and still have the mobility to cover. We have no idea if Ansah can cover. I suspect he'll be a pass rusher only, which is not bad.

If Jordan is gone, I think the Cards are better to go with Warmack and address the OLB position later in the draft with a guy like Collins or Simon. Simon can't cover but he'll be stout at the point of attack and can get after the QB. Collins is the probably the better overall pass rusher.

 

[Sunburn]

Excellent question, itinsunsfan---

It's the 34 OLB conundrum---you would like to draft an edge player in the first round who is a 3 down player---34OLB and nickel DE--

I was making the case as to why Ansah might be the top choice---Werner looks like more of a 43 DE, while the others look like stronger 34OLB choices---but, if the Cardinals feel as if Werner can be effective as a 34OLB then he might be higher on their board than I projected.

The Steelers' 34OLB criteria starts with: (a) being physical and strong enough to hold and maintain the edge; (b) being able to bull rush the QB...and it seems to me that the Cardinals are now adopting the same 34OLB philosophy.

The bottom line is---it's a rarity to find edge strength and speed wrapped up in one player---and Ziggy Ansah has both.

As for Jones, Jordan and Mingo---the have the athleticism, can they add the strength?

Werner has the strength, can he be an effective 34OLB edge athlete?

Mitch, thank you for responding. And thank you for your analysis. I agree with you that Ansah exhibits the raw, physical tools that, no doubt, have the Cards, and many other teams, drooling.

 

[WildBB]

Dion Jordan is about the only guy I would take at 7 and he looks like he may be gone by then. In a couple years Jordan will have added strength and still have the mobility to cover. We have no idea if Ansah can cover. I suspect he'll be a pass rusher only, which is not bad.

If Jordan is gone, I think the Cards are better to go with Warmack and address the OLB position later in the draft with a guy like Collins or Simon. Simon can't cover but he'll be stout at the point of attack and can get after the QB. Collins is the probably the better overall pass rusher.

This is the intruiging aspect of Dion Jordon. He would be an ideal weak side OLB, imo. Move Acho over to the strong side and I think we've got a great tandem there. Schofield can spell either side.

I think J. Jones or Jordon are the best bets @7. One or both will be there. Adress the OL in Rd. 2. There will be several good ones still both in the 2nd and 3rd Rds.

 

[Cardiac]

I get the sense that the Cardinals under new DC Todd Bowles have an OLB/DE proto-type in mind---someone who is strong enough at the point of attack to set and maintain the edge, someone who is strong enough to generate an effective bull rush, and ideally someone who can disengage from blocks quickly to make stops on athletic QBs. if this is truly the case, the Cardinals will be less inclined to take edge rushers who rely primarily on speed and quickness.

Bruce Arians and Todd Bowles want the defense to be more physical, more imposing of their athletic will and more punishing in the way in which they attack the ball carriers and wide receivers.

There are some very intriguing edge rushers that will be scooped up early in this draft---let's see which ones might be the most appealing to the Cardinals:

Best choices for Cardinals:

1. Ziggy Ansah
2. Jarvis Jones
3T. Dion Jordan
3T. Barkevious Mingo
5. Bjoern Werner

Really do look forward to your draft threads Mitch and obviously the work you put in on these is a labor of love. I've been wanting an OLBer/elite pass rusher with our rd 1 pick. I'm very intrigued by Jordan, especially after Jones poor 40 results at his pro day. Then I think of Q's and Suggs poor 40 times and say screw the 40 time and trust the tape.

I'm good with you rankings list for OLBers.

Now I have to strongly disagree with your obsession with WR's and Austin in particular. Austin may be every bit the playmaker you project him to be but it still doesn't make sense for the Cards.

Fitz - 3rd overall pick
Floyd - 13th overall pick
Roberts - 3rd pick

Investing the 7th overall pick on yet another WR is not only Matt Millenish but an irresponsible use of CAP and draft capital on a single position. There will be a couple of options for a very fast and shifty WR later in the draft that will achieve a decent amount of what you expect to achieve with Austin.

So give me your highest ranking OLBer available when we draft or one of the OT's still undrafted.

I say no to an OG that high in the draft. I say no to a WR before rd 3 and would prefer rd 5 or 6 if at all.

Let's see what Fitz, Floyd, Roberts, and Byrd can do with a Carson Palmer can achieve before spending more valuable draft resources on yet another WR. I'm good with drafting a TE in rd 2 because at least that's a different position than WR but would still add to the weapons for the offense.

 

[Bodha]

Bar none and miles beyond everyone else, Jarvis Jones IS the best pass rusher in this draft.


Theres no ifs ands or buts.


He consistenly put up numbers in the most NFL-like conference in college football. All those other guys have 'potential'. JJ has proven his worth time and time again. Id take him in a heartbeat.

IDC if he doesnt look good running the 40 or running around in gym shorts, he dominates games.



Looks at Vernon Gholston. Combine freak. Worthless.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Bar none and miles beyond everyone else, Jarvis Jones IS the best pass rusher in this draft.


Theres no ifs ands or buts.


He consistenly put up numbers in the most NFL-like conference in college football. All those other guys have 'potential'. JJ has proven his worth time and time again. Id take him in a heartbeat.

IDC if he doesnt look good running the 40 or running around in gym shorts, he dominates games.



Looks at Vernon Gholston. Combine freak. Worthless.

Gholston's last year 14 sacks and was dominant
Jones's last year 14.5 sacks and was dominant.

I don't know why you keep referencing Gholston as nothing more than a combine freak. I guess maybe you like being wrong, because Gholston had the on field production that was confirmed by good combine numbers. He just stunk as a pro.

 

[Bodha]

Gholston's last year 14 sacks and was dominant
Jones's last year 14.5 sacks and was dominant.

I don't know why you keep referencing Gholston as nothing more than a combine freak. I guess maybe you like being wrong, because Gholston had the on field production that was confirmed by good combine numbers. He just stunk as a pro.

Im talking about the fact that Jarvis' stock has plunged because hes not athletically impressive.

whereas theres none more impressive than Gholston, whos a huge bust. Theres little to no connection between 40 speed, broad jumps and bench presses and production.



Deeerrrpp

and how does combine numbers confirm field production? Doesnt the combine come after College? Did he run a sub 4.5? Yes? Then yes, those sacks were real, we didnt imagine them.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd love to trade back into the first and get Demontre Moore. I haven't been able to substantiate any character questions that people have raised. It's insanity that he's fallen off the map as much as he has.

The kid reminds me of Terrell Suggs.

Ziggy Ansuh is a 4-3 DE. He's not a rush linebacker. He might be a 3-4 DE, but that's a technical position, and his length to impact is going to be much longer.

Werner is a 4-3 DE, as well, IMO.

I like Mingo, but he's a tough projection, because he played DE so much last year and was mostly occupying gaps.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

I'd love to trade back into the first and get Demontre Moore. I haven't been able to substantiate any character questions that people have raised. It's insanity that he's fallen off the map as much as he has.

The kid reminds me of Terrell Suggs.

Ziggy Ansuh is a 4-3 DE. He's not a rush linebacker. He might be a 3-4 DE, but that's a technical position, and his length to impact is going to be much longer.

Werner is a 4-3 DE, as well, IMO.

I like Mingo, but he's a tough projection, because he played DE so much last year and was mostly occupying gaps.

Lol When I layed down to go to bed last night I was thinking the same thing

about Damontre Moore. Then we could get Zack Ertz and Travis Frederick

in the second round and Glennon in the third. I read somewhere yesterday

Zack Ertz may slide to the bottom of the second round now because

of his lack of blocking ability