elaborate please

[panfolk]

Just to take our minds off the waiting game for a moment I was wondering if we could start gathering opinions on what we think we'll see out of the suns next season. I'm a little dim on strategy but so far I've picked up that our ball movement was terrible due to Marbury (how he averaged so many assists astounds me) and the offense designed around him, our off the ball movement was nil, we weren't running screens, we were running mostly pick and roll, (sorry to be a nuisance but someone explain an "entry pass" to me please) and our players were pretty much standing still when they wanted the ball.

I only got to see about 10 suns games last year (one live in portland!) [vs. the whole season of blazers I watched. This year I get NBA League Pass. If anyone knows anything about it says so.]

So for the seasons he is healthy we can expect a running team to be built around Nash. Marion is pretty much a steals/rebounds scavenger who doiesn't need plays run for him. C will play much the same. Will we be going inside out through Amare again or will it be through NAsh exclusively? How will JJ fit into the system? When he isn't controlling the ball is he really as effective? his numbers went up all around during the times he played point.

What is the Euro influence D'antoni might bring? None? Just good basketball? What specifically will we see other than the obvious running game?

 

[NJYAJ09]

I think Amare will get more touches this year, with nash being the distributer. I think JJ's role will go up a little more, he'll get more shots as well. Marion will keep grabbing the rebounds, and being his slashing self. We NEED Dampier...

 

[George O'Brien]

I think Amare will get more touches this year, with nash being the distributer. I think JJ's role will go up a little more, he'll get more shots as well. Marion will keep grabbing the rebounds, and being his slashing self. We NEED Dampier...

The key will be for JJ and Shawn to move without the ball. If they do, they will score. If they don't, they'll sit.

 

[Errntknght]

An 'entry pass' is a pass from someone on the perimeter to a teammate who has established position in the low post. It's usually a C or PF (receiving the pass) but it could be guard who is posting his defender. It sounds almost trivial but good entry passes require skill and teamwork which the Suns seldom displayed last year. For example, when Amare set up in the low post the ball and passer were rarely in position for a quick entry so the defense had time to slide extra defenders into position to help. Frequently he had to give up his position in order to get open for the pass.

A key thing that is often overlooked is the height of the player wanting to make the entry pass. It's a relatively static situation and the defense is aware of a target who is a major threat so the would be passer's defender will try to smother him if possible when he's in position to enter the ball. Naturally, the taller the passer the harder he is to smother.

 

[George O'Brien]

An 'entry pass' is a pass from someone on the perimeter to a teammate who has established position in the low post. It's usually a C or PF (receiving the pass) but it could be guard who is posting his defender. It sounds almost trivial but good entry passes require skill and teamwork which the Suns seldom displayed last year. For example, when Amare set up in the low post the ball and passer were rarely in position for a quick entry so the defense had time to slide extra defenders into position to help. Frequently he had to give up his position in order to get open for the pass.

A key thing that is often overlooked is the height of the player wanting to make the entry pass. It's a relatively static situation and the defense is aware of a target who is a major threat so the would be passer's defender will try to smother him if possible when he's in position to enter the ball. Naturally, the taller the passer the harder he is to smother.

Another issue is whether the passer is effective when making entry passes on the run or has to be stationary. This is just like in football: pocket passers and scramblers. Great pocket passers are often tall, while guys who can pass on the run don't have to be. Nash is notable for being able to pass well on the move.

In theory, a guy like Carbakapa would be a huge plus in making entry passes because of his heigth. Being able to pass over a defender is just as valuable as being able to shoot over because it forces them to play tight, which opens things up inside.

Just as important is for players to be ready to catch the ball at all times. Turnovers because the receiver isn't ready is unacceptable, but it takes changing focus. This was a recurring problem with Jake and Jahidi last season.

Amare will have to learn how to get himself open as teams collapse on him. This will mean moving around a lot and running guys through back screens.

 

[Gaddabout]

An 'entry pass' is a pass from someone on the perimeter to a teammate who has established position in the low post. It's usually a C or PF (receiving the pass) but it could be guard who is posting his defender. It sounds almost trivial but good entry passes require skill and teamwork which the Suns seldom displayed last year. For example, when Amare set up in the low post the ball and passer were rarely in position for a quick entry so the defense had time to slide extra defenders into position to help. Frequently he had to give up his position in order to get open for the pass.

Amare wasn't always in the best position, either. He often set up too high, although he often made up for it with dazzling athletic moves. He will be fun to watch when he can think less about his footwork and positioning. No one save Shaq could move him off the block.

 

[devilalum]

Amare wasn't always in the best position, either. He often set up too high, although he often made up for it with dazzling athletic moves. He will be fun to watch when he can think less about his footwork and positioning. No one save Shaq could move him off the block.

I'm no expert but it seemed like Amare often set up high on purpose. It gives him an extra step to blow by his defender. He doesn't back guys down like Chuck he uses a lot more finesse.

 

[binkar]

The key will be for JJ and Shawn to move without the ball. If they do, they will score. If they don't, they'll sit.

Sit? Ummm I seriously doubt they would sit.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Naturally, the taller the passer the harder he is to smother.

Exactly. That is one of the reasons Penny is so good at entry passes. Forget all the practice he had with Shaq, he height was an incredible advantage.

I honestly expect JJ to grow into that mold. I would be surprised if he didn't make most of the entry passes into Amare next season, with Nash feeding Amare on the break

 

[George O'Brien]

Exactly. That is one of the reasons Penny is so good at entry passes. Forget all the practice he had with Shaq, he height was an incredible advantage.

I honestly expect JJ to grow into that mold. I would be surprised if he didn't make most of the entry passes into Amare next season, with Nash feeding Amare on the break

JJ showed some promise last season. I haven't seen his assist stats since the trade, but he ended up with 4.4 assists for the season after getting very few in the first two and half months of the season. JJ averaged 5.9 assists per game over the final 17 games including 11 against the Grizzlies on Apr 2nd.

It is worth noting that Bibby is a top PG and averaged only 5.4 assists last season (he did do 7.0 in the playoffs).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It isn't fair to judge Bibby's assists. The offense pretty much ran through Brad Miller and Divac from what I remember. Bibby would pass in to them, then they would pass out. Both Divac and Miller had huge assist numbers for big men.


JJ started to get the entry pass down, but only to a fraction of what Penny was able to do in our playoff run. Like I said, I hope and think that will improve, but it require JJ touching the ball a lot more often than I think he will to start the season.....

 

[George O'Brien]

It isn't fair to judge Bibby's assists. The offense pretty much ran through Brad Miller and Divac from what I remember. Bibby would pass in to them, then they would pass out. Both Divac and Miller had huge assist numbers for big men.


JJ started to get the entry pass down, but only to a fraction of what Penny was able to do in our playoff run. Like I said, I hope and think that will improve, but it require JJ touching the ball a lot more often than I think he will to start the season.....

I expect all the Suns players will see improvements in their assist totals. Good fast break teams tend to spread the assist numbers around if the pass like they should on the break.

That being said, I think Nash will do fine at getting the ball inside to Amare. He had no problem getting the ball inside to Walker when Walker decided to hang around near the basket.

 

[panfolk]

The key will be for JJ and Shawn to move without the ball. If they do, they will score. If they don't, they'll sit.

With Q in you mean?

Thank you all for the explanation.

 

[George O'Brien]

With Q in you mean?

Thank you all for the explanation.

That is one of the reasons to get a first rate backup - to force the starters to play hard all the time while keeping from overworking them. On offense that means moving around a lot and on defense to keep the intensity up.

 

[binkar]

AS the team currently stands it is EXTREMELY athletic. I think we are in the top 5 in the league as far as althletes go. We will put up lots of points and fast. We have the athletes to put together a decent team defensively as well. However the one huge concern is on the boards. Aside from Amare we simply dont have any good low post rebounders.

But as a break down of players:

Amare: Amare has stated that he has improved his game and will need to be triple teamed. I hope he is working on his defense and rebounding as much as his offense because right now thats what we need most from him. Amare has the potential to be one of the best rebounders in the game with his strength and hops.

JJ: Joe needs to keep his head right. If we get Q I hope Joe doesnt go back into his shell. He needs to realize that aside from Amare he is our biggest scoring threat. Joe also is a decent defender and must continue to be aggresive with and without the ball.

Marion: Shawn needs to bounce back. It seemed as though his added muscle last year could have affected his shot. Also he must continue to slash to the bucket and give Nash an opportunity to find him because he will. Shawn must continue to rebound for us as we dont have much in that area.

Nash: Steve was an awesome addition to this team. I still think that he makes this team better than Kobe would have. We have plenty of people he can find to put the ball in the hole and he will have his first low post threat in Amare. Another thing Steve brings to us is his ability to knock down the outside shot. He will be able to spread the d giving JJ and Shawn (maybe Q) an opportunity to Slash the lanes. He must work hard defensively and continue his awesome hustle.

Jake: Jake needs to learn not to make stupid fouls. He will give us energy and needs to help us on the boards.

Barbosa: Leandro seems to have had a good summer and is working hard to improve his game. He also can hit down the 3 ball when left open. He will give us the opportunity to not slow down the pace when Steve takes a break. He must improve his one on one defense, but is great in getting in the pass lanes.

Lampe: Lampe is still raw but has potential. He needs to learn how to use that big body of his and put it to work. He will slowly develope through the season and his role will increase. He needs to learn how to pass the ball more often, but he can shoot.

Zarko: I think Zarko could be important. Zarko has alot of potential and was showing it at the beginning of last season before he got hurt. If he has heeled and can get his stroke back he could create alot of problems offensively. Unfortunetly he creates problems for us on the other side of the floor. He is very week defensively and must improve. He will never be a good defender but he cant be poor either.

Jacobsen: I like Casey. He works hard and is aggresive. He isnt the greatest athlete but uses all he has. He must hit the 3 consistently and improve defensively. Teams can always use a good shooter.

Howard: Will not play much of a role at all. Just doesnt fit.

Vroman: If Jackson is aggresive and can bang the boards he could really help this team. He is not a shot blocker but will work hard and make his guy work. He is one of those guys that is annoying to play against.

and hopfully,

Q: If Q becomes a sun there is no team in the league with out athleticism. We may have a small lineup on the floor at times, but boy will we be exciting. He is a very streaky shooter but if he gets hot watch out. He played extremely well against us last year and has the potential to be a great player. He rebounds well for a guy his size and will be a very good addition. Also has good character.

There is are team with Q and not including a big body we might sign. I got a little bored so I figured I would discuss it. I love this team and if somehow we could get a big body that just rebounds and blocks some shots (unlikely), this team could be unreal.

I am very excited about this season.

 

[George O'Brien]

AS the team currently stands it is EXTREMELY athletic. I think we are in the top 5 in the league as far as althletes go. We will put up lots of points and fast. We have the athletes to put together a decent team defensively as well. However the one huge concern is on the boards. Aside from Amare we simply dont have any good low post rebounders.

But as a break down of players:

Amare: Amare has stated that he has improved his game and will need to be triple teamed. I hope he is working on his defense and rebounding as much as his offense because right now thats what we need most from him. Amare has the potential to be one of the best rebounders in the game with his strength and hops.

JJ: Joe needs to keep his head right. If we get Q I hope Joe doesnt go back into his shell. He needs to realize that aside from Amare he is our biggest scoring threat. Joe also is a decent defender and must continue to be aggresive with and without the ball.

Marion: Shawn needs to bounce back. It seemed as though his added muscle last year could have affected his shot. Also he must continue to slash to the bucket and give Nash an opportunity to find him because he will. Shawn must continue to rebound for us as we dont have much in that area.

Nash: Steve was an awesome addition to this team. I still think that he makes this team better than Kobe would have. We have plenty of people he can find to put the ball in the hole and he will have his first low post threat in Amare. Another thing Steve brings to us is his ability to knock down the outside shot. He will be able to spread the d giving JJ and Shawn (maybe Q) an opportunity to Slash the lanes. He must work hard defensively and continue his awesome hustle.

Jake: Jake needs to learn not to make stupid fouls. He will give us energy and needs to help us on the boards.

Barbosa: Leandro seems to have had a good summer and is working hard to improve his game. He also can hit down the 3 ball when left open. He will give us the opportunity to not slow down the pace when Steve takes a break. He must improve his one on one defense, but is great in getting in the pass lanes.

Lampe: Lampe is still raw but has potential. He needs to learn how to use that big body of his and put it to work. He will slowly develope through the season and his role will increase. He needs to learn how to pass the ball more often, but he can shoot.

Zarko: I think Zarko could be important. Zarko has alot of potential and was showing it at the beginning of last season before he got hurt. If he has heeled and can get his stroke back he could create alot of problems offensively. Unfortunetly he creates problems for us on the other side of the floor. He is very week defensively and must improve. He will never be a good defender but he cant be poor either.

Jacobsen: I like Casey. He works hard and is aggresive. He isnt the greatest athlete but uses all he has. He must hit the 3 consistently and improve defensively. Teams can always use a good shooter.

Howard: Will not play much of a role at all. Just doesnt fit.

Vroman: If Jackson is aggresive and can bang the boards he could really help this team. He is not a shot blocker but will work hard and make his guy work. He is one of those guys that is annoying to play against.

and hopfully,

Q: If Q becomes a sun there is no team in the league with out athleticism. We may have a small lineup on the floor at times, but boy will we be exciting. He is a very streaky shooter but if he gets hot watch out. He played extremely well against us last year and has the potential to be a great player. He rebounds well for a guy his size and will be a very good addition. Also has good character.

There is are team with Q and not including a big body we might sign. I got a little bored so I figured I would discuss it. I love this team and if somehow we could get a big body that just rebounds and blocks some shots (unlikely), this team could be unreal.

I am very excited about this season.

Pretty good summary. Just a few extra thoughts?

1. I'm not worried about JJ going into a shell. I believe he has turned the corner on his confidence and his late season slump was due to double teams rather than regression. Also, I think he will benefit a lot from getting passes from Nash.

2. Marion found his shooting eye late in the season. I expect he will come to camp "ready" like he did two years ago after playing on the US team rather than last summer when he did not work on his shooting.

3. Amare has said he has been working on his defense a lot after watching the finals. I think working with Larry Brown and against Duncan this summer is an incredible chance to improve his game.

 

[panfolk]

Zarko: I think Zarko could be important. Zarko has alot of potential and was showing it at the beginning of last season before he got hurt. If he has heeled and can get his stroke back he could create alot of problems offensively. Unfortunetly he creates problems for us on the other side of the floor. He is very week defensively and must improve. He will never be a good defender but he cant be poor either.
.

I remember a transcript of a radio interview of D'antoni from the end of last season where he said that he was surprised with Zarko because he had thought Z would be so good offensively that his terrible defense would have to be over looked but that by the end of the season he was lousy on offense but could play reasonable D. So If he does get straight on offense he might be a halfway balanced player He's the main reason I hope the clippers match.
On a separate occasion D'Antoni mentioned Zarko as a having point forward capability. That's pretty impressive really. I remember seeing him making a brilliant cross court pass to eisley one time. That was just as good as seeing him slash to the basket I guess. I'd venture to guess he'd be described as having good court vision and a high basketball IQ.

 

[George O'Brien]

I remember a transcript of a radio interview of D'antoni from the end of last season where he said that he was surprised with Zarko because he had thought Z would be so good offensively that his terrible defense would have to be over looked but that by the end of the season he was lousy on offense but could play reasonable D. So If he does get straight on offense he might be a halfway balanced player He's the main reason I hope the clippers match.
On a separate occasion D'Antoni mentioned Zarko as a having point forward capability. That's pretty impressive really. I remember seeing him making a brilliant cross court pass to eisley one time. That was just as good as seeing him slash to the basket I guess. I'd venture to guess he'd be described as having good court vision and a high basketball IQ.

I wasn't that impressed with Zarko's defense, but I'll take your word for it. I think he will give an effort which is about all we can expect for a while.

As for his being a point forward, that is not too far fetched. His ball handling was one of the characteristics everyone commented on when he was drafted. He certainly knows how to pass and is very good at it on the break.

BTW, the concept of the "point forward" is one that Don Nelson developed. He realized that many teams set up their defenses to try to get the ball out of the hands of the point guard so as to make it harder to run plays. With the point forward, as soon as opponents try to double the guy with the ball he can get it to the PG and run the play. If they don't double, the point forward starts the play.

The basic concept works using the SG to bring up the ball, but often using the forward creates greater defensive problems.

 

[NJYAJ09]

Zarko justs play too soft for my liking, too many floaty jumpers.

 

[Joe Mama]

By no means did I think that Cabarkapa was a good defender, but I have argued on several occasions that his defense was not nearly as bad as some people thought. Lampe and Cabarkapa are both excellent ball handlers for big men. In fact Lampe might be even better than Cabarkapa because he knows when to give up the ball. During the summer league games he started the fast-break every time he got the chance, and he rarely turned over the ball.

I really hope that Larry Brown's coaching helps Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire especially on defense. I believe Amare is going to be a 25-10 player next season. If he can cut down his turnovers, improve his passing skills, and most importantly improve his defense he will be a superstar possibly top five player.

Joe Mama

 

[zett]

Zarko justs play too soft for my liking, too many floaty jumpers.

Yea alot like that Larry Bird guy, Except Zarko can jump.

 

[NJYAJ09]

Yea alot like that Larry Bird guy, Except Zarko can jump.

No freaking way you can compare Cabarkapa to Bird AT ALL. Cabarkapa is about 15 miles away from Birds game.

 

[George O'Brien]

No freaking way you can compare Cabarkapa to Bird AT ALL. Cabarkapa is about 15 miles away from Birds game.

I think he was joking. That's why he had a smily face.

I could make case that Zarko's "style" may be similar to Bird's, but hardly his talent. Larry Bird was a remarkable talent and one of the greatest players in the history of the game. But Bird did have the advantage of playing on a great team that could take advantage of his skills.

The thing about Bird that really stuck out was his incredible passing skills. The Celtics could run their offense through him because he was tall enough to be hard to defense on the outside, clever enough to get by his defender, and extraordinary at making entry passes to McHale and Parish. At the same time he was strong enough that he could have been a power forward if they hadn't a super one already in McHale.

Other than the strength and rebounding, Zarko has similar kinds of skills, but not the level by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Dylan]

I think he was joking. That's why he had a smily face.

I could make case that Zarko's "style" may be similar to Bird's, but hardly his talent. Larry Bird was a remarkable talent and one of the greatest players in the history of the game. But Bird did have the advantage of playing on a great team that could take advantage of his skills.

The thing about Bird that really stuck out was his incredible passing skills. The Celtics could run their offense through him because he was tall enough to be hard to defense on the outside, clever enough to get by his defender, and extraordinary at making entry passes to McHale and Parish. At the same time he was strong enough that he could have been a power forward if they hadn't a super one already in McHale.

Other than the strength and rebounding, Zarko has similar kinds of skills, but not the level by any stretch of the imagination.

And I hear he worked on his game all the time, a tireless worker. I read that before games he would go early to the arena and shoot for a couple hours, just shooting and shooting. By game time, he was hot and ready to go!

 

[panfolk]

Amare: Amare has stated that he has improved his game and will need to be triple teamed. I hope he is working on his defense and rebounding as much as his offense because right now thats what we need most from him. Amare has the potential to be one of the best rebounders in the game with his strength and hops.
.

The main improvement I'd like to see in Amare is that he stop trying to posterize other players so much and go for the more disciplined shot instead (granted by disciplined I just mean anything other than a monster dunk). There was a game where they showed slowmo of severeal of his attempts rattle in becaause he was leaping too high and the ball was kinda falling out of his hands instead of being actively directed.