Eli Who?

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I don't remember ASU saying he ran a 4.2. I heard Koetter on the radio raving about Nick "I got kicked off the team" Johnson, saying that he was faster than Suggs (a 4.6 is what he said).

Maybe it wasn't that fast, but they were definitely saying that he was much, much faster than any of the times that he registered in front of scouts. I'm just saying that I haven't seen blistering speed from Fitzgerald, which is what we need on the other side of 'Quan. If you want that, draft Williams from UCLA. He is always outrunning corners.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
My understanding on Fitzgerald is that he's not all that fast. I know that Pitt says that he runs a 4.4, but I"m not sure I believe it. Colleges usually embellish the 40 times of they're players (remember T. Suggs's 4.2?).

They said Suggs would run 4.58 in workouts, but he never did and that's one reason he fell.

I agree about Fitgerald I mentioned last week he's become a bit overrated he's not as fast as they're saying. That said, he has put up remarkable numbers and has remarkable hands and ability to go get the ball. I think he's clearly a better player than Johnson, he reminds me of a bigger Jabar Gaffney. What made Gaffney special in college is he ran such good routes(son of an NFL WR) that he got remarkable separation, clearly head and shoulders the best WR at Florida when they were loaded(Caldwell, Taylor Jacobs on the same team). But in the NFL he's had problems because he can't run by people and so while he's still a great route runner, he's less of a deep factor. Fitgerald is bigger than Jabar and thus a much better in the air player, I think he'll be better than Gaffney too, I'm just not convinced he's as good as those stats suggest he will be.

I think Roy Williams fits this teams need more(big and fast) and I think even Michael Clayton would be a solid guy, not the gaudy numbers of Fitgerald but a great athlete who can get downfield and make plays in the air. I think Fitgerald's polish probably makes the transition a bit easier for him in the beginning, Roy Williams is a natural stud but he hasn't been well coached in college and he still relies on natural ability, he'll struggle at times as a rookie.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Maybe it wasn't that fast, but they were definitely saying that he was much, much faster than any of the times that he registered in front of scouts. I'm just saying that I haven't seen blistering speed from Fitzgerald, which is what we need on the other side of 'Quan. If you want that, draft Williams from UCLA. He is always outrunning corners.

You mean from USC (Mike) or Washington(Reggie)? Reggie's in the draft, Mike isn't draft eligible. Mike isn't any faster than Fitgerald he's just so big, long and so good in the air that his lack of top end speed doesn't matter.

Reggie is faster than Mike. Roy is probably as fast as reggie.

UCLA's best WR is Craig Bragg.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
You mean from USC (Mike) or Washington(Reggie)? Reggie's in the draft, Mike isn't draft eligible. Mike isn't any faster than Fitgerald he's just so big, long and so good in the air that his lack of top end speed doesn't matter.

Reggie is faster than Mike. Roy is probably as fast as reggie.

UCLA's best WR is Craig Bragg.

Then Reggie I guess is who I mean. I don't know. I thought that Mike's one-handed grab against Oregon State was sick. I'm worried about Roy Williams's age and injury history, and so I'm not totally sure that he's solid enough to take as a top 5 on this team, but I haven't been looking at him, either.

I just think that we should be looking at a speed guy with a football background (sorry, Gilmore), instead of just the "Best WR Available". I think a lot of people are a bit enamoured with Fitzgerald because he's been getting so much press. I'm not sure if he'll be more than a Travis Taylor/Rod Gardner-kind of guy in the NFL. If you're going to be a Randy Moss, you need the speed to back it up. It's pretty clear to me that Fitzgerald doesn't have that kind of speed.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I'm worried about Roy Williams's age and injury history, and so I'm not totally sure that he's solid enough to take as a top 5 on this team, but I haven't been looking at him, either.

That's my big concern with Williams. Will he all of a sudden start having hamstring problems again which is common for speed guys that have had them before. Especially with the long grueling NFL season.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I just think that we should be looking at a speed guy with a football background (sorry, Gilmore), instead of just the "Best WR Available". I think a lot of people are a bit enamoured with Fitzgerald because he's been getting so much press. I'm not sure if he'll be more than a Travis Taylor/Rod Gardner-kind of guy in the NFL. If you're going to be a Randy Moss, you need the speed to back it up. It's pretty clear to me that Fitzgerald doesn't have that kind of speed.

I don't know man, I think Fitzgerald closely resembles Terrell Owens if you were to cut off Terrell's head and stick a sane one on top. I believe he would be the perfect complement to Quan and Johnson.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
I don't know man, I think Fitzgerald closely resembles Terrell Owens if you were to cut off Terrell's head and stick a sane one on top. I believe he would be the perfect complement to Quan and Johnson.

But 'Quan doesn't look much different than T.O., either. T.O. doesn't have Randy Moss-type speed. In a couple years, he's going to look (and sound) a lot like Keyshawn Johnson. T.O. out-muscles a lot of corners and is very "sudden", but he dropped out of the first round for the same reason that Quan did: not much top-end speed. Rarely will you see TO make a play streaking down the sideline for a jump ball in the end zone, a la Randy Moss. He makes cuts and moves down the field, like we've seen with Anquan.

Look at Steve Smith in free agency, or a speed guy that can catch. We don't need two T.O.s, we need a T.O. and a Marvin Harrison (who isn't big or physical, but is quick, as well as fast). I think that in this draft, you can mortgage size for speed and still get a player that can come up with the ball and not drop it on an seven yard out on third and six.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Goodness Gracious!

DRAFT ELI MANNING FOR THE LOVE OF FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough of this cutsie poo stuff!

Yeah we passed on Suggs for two barely adequate picks.

Suggs is now starting and has a good # of sacks.

STUPID MOVE BY THE CARDINALS.

Why Eli Manning ?

1. He is good, and has the talent to be an NFL QB.

2. He is a accurate passer, turnovers kill us.

3. Boldin, Boldin, Boldin, and ......oh yeah BOLDIN!

4. It is the move that is right. Regardless if Eli becomes the worse pick of all time. The Cardinals organization has to start doing "smart things". The Cardinals draft Eli Manning and Free Agents will here about it. It will be on the front page of all the papers. It will help put some positive reason why people should sign with us. It would be a good Public Relations move!!!

All this draft a WR, and pick Rosenberger stuff should be thrown out the window.

The Cardinals are the worst team in football, and with the Bengals winning we are officially the worse team for the longest time. We can't try anything that is "against the grain". We have to start playing it by the book. We have to start doing what other are doing to succeed.

In order to start getting talent we MUST start acting like a PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION that makes PROFFESSIONAL DECISIONS.

Peace

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
But 'Quan doesn't look much different than T.O., either. T.O. doesn't have Randy Moss-type speed. In a couple years, he's going to look (and sound) a lot like Keyshawn Johnson. T.O. out-muscles a lot of corners and is very "sudden", but he dropped out of the first round for the same reason that Quan did: not much top-end speed. Rarely will you see TO make a play streaking down the sideline for a jump ball in the end zone, a la Randy Moss. He makes cuts and moves down the field, like we've seen with Anquan.

Look at Steve Smith in free agency, or a speed guy that can catch. We don't need two T.O.s, we need a T.O. and a Marvin Harrison (who isn't big or physical, but is quick, as well as fast). I think that in this draft, you can mortgage size for speed and still get a player that can come up with the ball and not drop it on an seven yard out on third and six.

Speed guys are so overrated. Big guys with Good Speed and Amazing Hands are rare and they create match up problems for the smaller CBs. That is why guys like Fitzgerald and Williams are so coveted.

5'10" 185lb CBs trying to match up with 6'3" 220lb WRs who are just as fast creates match up problems for the defense.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
.

Look at Steve Smith in free agency, or a speed guy that can catch. We don't need two T.O.s, we need a T.O. and a Marvin Harrison (who isn't big or physical, but is quick, as well as fast). I think that in this draft, you can mortgage size for speed and still get a player that can come up with the ball and not drop it on an seven yard out on third and six.

The speed thing is critical depending on who's our QB. the point Jaws made about Blake on draft day was very telling, if you don't have deep threats to spread the field, Blake will have problems because of his nature as a QB. He has never been accurate, he's a hot and cold guy, and if the field is "compressed" because you have no deep threat, that's a problem. If Blake is starting next year we'll have the same issue unless we a get a Darrel Jackson or Steve Smith type who can stretch the field . Jackson has a lot of drops this year but about half came in one game he played with a concussion, and he's a major deep threat, 8 TD's 17 yards per catch. The concerns I have on him are past injuries, hands, and is he a guy who looks good because of the offense he's in?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
Speed guys are so overrated. Big guys with Good Speed and Amazing Hands are rare and they create match up problems for the smaller CBs. That is why guys like Fitzgerald and Williams are so coveted.

5'10" 185lb CBs trying to match up with 6'3" 220lb WRs who are just as fast creates match up problems for the defense.

Yeah, but we already have a "#1" WR in Anquan. There are only so many passes to go around, and I don't want to see this turn into a Steeler-type offense where you're passing 75% of your downs just to please all three stars in your Corps. We already have a lot of money invested at wide reciever, and we need to let Bryant Johnson into a solid #2. We don't really need another playmaker at WR right this moment. Maybe we'll decide we need one next year, but right now I'm getting the same feeling about our WR situation in the 2004 draft as I had about the QB postition in the 2003 draft (I don't want to break out "Kerouac9's Lock of the Draft," please don't make me ).

What I see us needed is just someone that can stretch the field and keep defenses honest, especially safeties. I'd prefer someone who can do that as a split end or out of the slot, and I don't think that Gilmore's going to develop into that role. Maybe you think that we need two (or three, if BJ develops) "stud" WRs, but I don't like to have that many; it's a waste of money. I want a solid role player who can just do his job and mabye catch four to seven balls a game, but average 17 yards per catch.

Darrell Jackson is a good reccommendation, but he might want a ton of money. Steve Smith, or even someone like the slot guy that they have in San Diego (the white guy... what's his name!?) would be perfect. Someone who can return punts and kickoffs as well, but with jets. I'm not talking about a Santana Moss, but kind of like a second-tier version of such. Like Tim Dwight (there it is!).

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
The speed thing is critical depending on who's our QB. the point Jaws made about Blake on draft day was very telling, if you don't have deep threats to spread the field, Blake will have problems because of his nature as a QB. He has never been accurate, he's a hot and cold guy, and if the field is "compressed" because you have no deep threat, that's a problem. If Blake is starting next year we'll have the same issue unless we a get a Darrel Jackson or Steve Smith type who can stretch the field . Jackson has a lot of drops this year but about half came in one game he played with a concussion, and he's a major deep threat, 8 TD's 17 yards per catch. The concerns I have on him are past injuries, hands, and is he a guy who looks good because of the offense he's in?

I've never really considered Carl Pickens or Darnay Scott burners. They were big guys who had good but not elite speed and steady hands. Much like a Fitzgerald or a Williams.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I thought that Mike's one-handed grab against Oregon State was sick.

I'm not sure if he'll be more than a Travis Taylor/Rod Gardner-kind of guy in the NFL. If you're going to be a Randy Moss, you need the speed to back it up. It's pretty clear to me that Fitzgerald doesn't have that kind of speed.

That catch by Williams is the best one handed catch I've ever seen. The throw was high with decent velocity. And, then, to catch it one-handed with his arm fully extended and not pull it back into his body was freakish. Not to mention he got his feet down inbounds with a bit of a shove too. Wow!

You remember Travis Taylor and Rod Gardener in college? You must not. Fitzgerald is way better than both of them. It's a moot point though. He won't be in the draft IMO.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

There's a great article in last week's SI about Fitzgerald.First off, the fatsest he's ran is a 4.5 but says he'll get that down into the 4.4's for the workout.It sounded like his family was well off , father played in the NFL and is an editor for a newspaper,so he could've prop 48'd if he wanted to.His mother died recently and that has been a driving force for him to get better.He sounds like a great kid and has his head on straight.That being said,draft Eli.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
That catch by Williams is the best one handed catch I've ever seen. The throw was high with decent velocity. And, then, to catch it one-handed with his arm fully extended and not pull it back into his body was freakish. Not to mention he got his feet down inbounds with a bit of a shove too. Wow!

You remember Travis Taylor and Rod Gardener in college? You must not. Fitzgerald is way better than both of them. It's a moot point though. He won't be in the draft IMO.

Did you see Marvon Harrison's one handed snag this past weekend? Better than Williams' IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Did you see Marvon Harrison's one handed snag this past weekend? Better than Williams' IMO.

I saw that grab, too, but I like's William's better. Williams didn't even have a handle on the ball. He literally caught the ball BY THE NOSE, and managed to get into the end zone. It gave me chills.

I think that Fitzgerald will be fine, but I really like Gardner as a #2. What I'm saying is that at best Fitzgerald is going to be like T.O., but we already have a T.O. in Anquan Boldin. We should be looking at how to help ANQUAN in his game, how best to complement him, and if we're going to do it with a 3 WR set (I'd prefer to run a 2 TE set, frankly, but we'd have to draft someone like Winslow, and Top 5 is too high), we need a guy with speed who is a legitimate threat to catch the ball down the sideline three yards ahead of the corner, who just can't keep up. Someone to keep the safety from patrolling the shallow middle. THAT player isn't going to cost you a Top 5 pick. THAT player can be found in round 2. The next Ashley Lelie or Donte Stallworth will be able to be found at the top of the second round, and we can afford to wean him into the offense, even if it's behing Bryan Gilmore for the first eight games or whatever.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Did you see Marvon Harrison's one handed snag this past weekend? Better than Williams' IMO.

Great catch no doubt about it. But, he did bring it back into his body. I just can't remember a one handed catch where the arm was all the way extended and he never did bring the ball in. It's like he had super glue on his hands.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Great catch no doubt about it. But, he did bring it back into his body. I just can't remember a one handed catch where the arm was all the way extended and he never did bring the ball in. It's like he had super glue on his hands.

He probable did like in the replacements.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by SweetD
He probable did like in the replacements.

Actually you would be surprised how much a little stick'um helps. We tried some out once after practice when I played in high school. The football would stick right to your glove. The problem was so would everything else. If you touched the ground once, the glove would end up looking like turf.

 

[MadCardDisease]

With the signing of Green, my Larry Fitzgerald suggestion doesn't sound as crazy.

 

[buff17]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Yeah, but we already have a "#1" WR in Anquan. There are only so many passes to go around, and I don't want to see this turn into a Steeler-type offense where you're passing 75% of your downs just to please all three stars in your Corps. We already have a lot of money invested at wide reciever, and we need to let Bryant Johnson into a solid #2. We don't really need another playmaker at WR right this moment. Maybe we'll decide we need one next year, but right now I'm getting the same feeling about our WR situation in the 2004 draft as I had about the QB postition in the 2003 draft (I don't want to break out "Kerouac9's Lock of the Draft," please don't make me ).

What I see us needed is just someone that can stretch the field and keep defenses honest, especially safeties. I'd prefer someone who can do that as a split end or out of the slot, and I don't think that Gilmore's going to develop into that role. Maybe you think that we need two (or three, if BJ develops) "stud" WRs, but I don't like to have that many; it's a waste of money. I want a solid role player who can just do his job and mabye catch four to seven balls a game, but average 17 yards per catch.

Darrell Jackson is a good reccommendation, but he might want a ton of money. Steve Smith, or even someone like the slot guy that they have in San Diego (the white guy... what's his name!?) would be perfect. Someone who can return punts and kickoffs as well, but with jets. I'm not talking about a Santana Moss, but kind of like a second-tier version of such. Like Tim Dwight (there it is!).

Your right about not enough passes to go around, however Boldin is not and never will be a true #1 receiver. He had great numbers this season, but hes a possesion receiver. Boldin and Johnson and a true number one receiver would be the most dangerous in the NFL IMO. Although, WR isnt what needs to be drafted in the first round. It would be awesome to sign Owens, but some of the guys your mentioned above would also be excellent choices. Also save alot of $$!

 

[vince56]

Originally posted by buff17
Boldin is not and never will be a true #1 receiver.

:roll:

Oh yeah, and a big to you too, buddy!

 

[Stout]

See, Buff's right...Boldin might keep going as the #1 receiving OPTION, but he's not a #1 RECEIVER. A teams #1 position receiver is the burner that stretches the field. That's not Boldin. As great as Boldin is and will continue to be, he's a very solid, if not great, possession receiver, that can help break a game open.

 

[Goldfield]

Here's my OPINION!

We got the #3 pick.

We got Green as HC.


If a QB(Big Ben or Manning) drops to #3 take him... (unless Green really likes what Josh did those last games.)


If none of those two QB's drop to #3, and Larry Fitzgerald is there. I think you have to take him...


Larry Fitzgerald & Boldin together, not to mention Bryant Johnson as the #3 would be AWSOME, no mater who is throwing the damn ball.


So in my opinion, we are in a WIN/WIN situation. Either a great QB or a Great due of WR's...

Man I am excited.

(I didnt know Larry Fitzgerald was as tall as he is either. I really like that guy)

 

[Assface]

Originally posted by BEERZ
If none of those two QB's drop to #3, and Larry Fitzgerald is there. I think you have to take him...


Larry Fitzgerald & Boldin together, not to mention Bryant Johnson as the #3 would be AWSOME, no mater who is throwing the damn ball.

Johnson/Boldin/Fitzgerald would be a nice trio but I kinda want to fix our defense. I'd rather not have all of our games next year look like basketball scores.