ESPN Insider Article - Suns 3rd Worst Franchise for the Future?

[ASUCHRIS]

Not sure I'm buying that the situation is a complete disaster, but ESPN did a breakdown of teams based on current rosters/FO and other factors. Needless to say, they're not too positive about the Bobby Sarver era, and it's hard to disagree with much of what they say. Even better, the sparkling list of updated GM "candidates" indicates that our new GM will be a castrated yes man. Good times!

27. Phoenix Suns | Future Power Rating: 399

PLAYERS MANAGEMENT MONEY MARKET DRAFT
136 (24th) 55 (23rd) 95 (17th) 63 (9th) 50 (15th)

The enthusiasm over the Suns' terrific run to the Western Conference finals was seriously dampened by a pretty crappy June and July.

When team president and GM Steve Kerr resigned, owner Robert Sarver took over front-office operations and managed to do a great deal of damage in just a few weeks.

First he lost Amare Stoudemire in free agency, and then he took on Hedo Turkoglu's huge contract while also overpaying Josh Childress (who plays the same position as Turkoglu), Channing Frye and Hakim Warrick. Sarver eventually brought on respected player agent Lon Babby as the team's new president, but at that point, most of the damage had been done.

Sarver's moves will help keep the Suns respectable for the moment, but for the future, the picture is bleak. As Steve Nash ages, it's hard to imagine how the role players Phoenix has put around him will be able to prevent a Suns slide into irrelevance.

(Previous rank: 25)

 

[carey]

We were really low last year too and went to the WCF. Whatever.

 

[elindholm]

I agree that the Suns' intermediate-term future is among the bleakest in the league, but I've been saying that for a while. Their young talent is weak, they don't draft well, and their ownership is meddlesome. I don't see how you can fault an impartial analyst from reaching the same conclusion.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Except it's John Hollinger, who bases everything on the manipulation of stats. How many times has he picked Utah to make the NBA Finals?

 

[Bert]

I'm not a big fan of Sarver either but I dont see how he can blame him for Amare leaving. We offered him the max, and he wanted to leave so he left. What was Sarver gonna do? Beg?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree that the Suns' intermediate-term future is among the bleakest in the league, but I've been saying that for a while. Their young talent is weak, they don't draft well, and their ownership is meddlesome. I don't see how you can fault an impartial analyst from reaching the same conclusion.

Unfortunate but true. I don't know about 3rd bleakest, but the kool aid is becoming harder and harder to swallow.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm not a big fan of Sarver either but I dont see how he can blame him for Amare leaving. We offered him the max, and he wanted to leave so he left. What was Sarver gonna do? Beg?

Who blamed him for Amare leaving?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not a big fan of Sarver either but I dont see how he can blame him for Amare leaving. We offered him the max, and he wanted to leave so he left. What was Sarver gonna do? Beg?

lol, revisionist history. and it's not even two months old. we did not offer amare the max.

 

[green machine]

Suns have a roster that won't contend for a title this year and has no flexibility to make the necessary moves to contend in the near future. I'd say things are fairly bleak.

 

[SweetD]

Ya Suns suck at drafting please!!! Lopez is a starting C with very good potential. Dragic is a great pick up for 2nd round which the Spurs didn't want.... Let's not forget Barbosa who was drafted with the Spurs pick as well. It is hard to build through the draft when you are one of the top teams in the league every year. Tell me how the Lakers, Cavs (Minus Lebron), Celtics and other top teams have done better in the draft.

Amare wanted to go and he was requesting way to much, I agree with the Suns on this move.

The draft mistakes happened in the Jerry C. /Mike D. era. They gave away Dang & Iggy. This team up until this year did not have the court time for top rookies to develope and play.

 

[SweetD]

Suns have a roster that won't contend for a title this year and has no flexibility to make the necessary moves to contend in the near future. I'd say things are fairly bleak.

Sound just like last year... ya da ya da they will be lucky to make the playoffs they are a 9th or 10th seed at best. So what unless we can get a onesided trade like the Lakers for say D. Howard then I would have to say not many teams can beat the Lakers either.

 

[Griffin]

we did not offer amare the max.

Technically Amare would have gotten what he's getting in NY had he only stayed relatively healthy throughout the contract. But obviously even he doesn't believe that's likely. It's been speculated that Amare will need another major knee surgery at some point in the future.

Ya Suns suck at drafting please!!! Lopez is a starting C with very good potential. Dragic is a great pick up for 2nd round which the Spurs didn't want.... Let's not forget Barbosa who was drafted with the Spurs pick as well.

The Suns did relatively well with the picks that they had kept. But that's just it, what about all those picks that the Suns gave away because they didn't see their long-term value? That was not a sound draft strategy, imo.

 

[green machine]

Sound just like last year... ya da ya da they will be lucky to make the playoffs they are a 9th or 10th seed at best. So what unless we can get a onesided trade like the Lakers for say D. Howard then I would have to say not many teams can beat the Lakers either.

So you're content with the team using all its cap space on long term deals, thereby eliminating any flexibility to add the players that can either help beat the Lakers or at least wait them out?

The Suns, right now, are so seriously flawed as a roster it's not even funny. Last year's team was underestimated, no doubt, but this year's squad looks like a 50 win and first round exit team if I've ever seen one. That may be good enough for you, but I kind of expect more.

 

[asudevil83]

Ya Suns suck at drafting please!!! Lopez is a starting C with very good potential. Dragic is a great pick up for 2nd round which the Spurs didn't want.... Let's not forget Barbosa who was drafted with the Spurs pick as well. It is hard to build through the draft when you are one of the top teams in the league every year. Tell me how the Lakers, Cavs (Minus Lebron), Celtics and other top teams have done better in the draft.

Amare wanted to go and he was requesting way to much, I agree with the Suns on this move.

The draft mistakes happened in the Jerry C. /Mike D. era. They gave away Dang & Iggy. This team up until this year did not have the court time for top rookies to develope and play.

you dug yourself a hole that's going to be tough to get out of. I'll start with 2004 to the present:

Lakers: Vujacic, Byrum, Turiaf, Farmar, Toney Douglas. thats every first rounder they've picked besides Crittenton and some foreigner have made the regular rotation. Everyone of them have played a role in the Lakers getting where they are in some form or another. Not stars, but decent quality role players.

Celtics: its pretty hard to gauge them. they've had a BUNCH of quality players used with their picks. Tony Allen, Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Jeff Green, Randy Foye. but much of that talent was traded away getting Hall of Famers.

Suns: Barbosa, Lopez, Dragic. that's it. its funny though. a BUNCH of quality talent has been just flat out given away with suns picks, but nothing traded back such as in the case with the Celtics. its disturbing. And for the most part what we've held onto has be crap.

 

[ReddBird]

I think the Suns make the playoffs again this year.

I think the Knicks will regret opening their wallet to Amare -- and I like Amare. Just not full dollar for full years.

And I wish Phoenix could trade owners....

 

[Yuma]

As Steve Nash ages, it's hard to imagine how the role players Phoenix has put around him will be able to prevent a Suns slide into irrelevance.

Does this guy even watch the Suns? We have a guy named Gorin Dragic waiting in the wings to take the reins from Nash.

I would argue we need better big men going forward. Lawal looks like a small version of Elton Brand to me in the summer league. Let's just hope he's not too small for the big boys. Hopefully Lopez becomes a solid center. We need a good back up, maybe starter at center, and some real power forwards. We always get two guards and small forwards.

 

[Chaplin]

So you're content with the team using all its cap space on long term deals, thereby eliminating any flexibility to add the players that can either help beat the Lakers or at least wait them out?

The Suns, right now, are so seriously flawed as a roster it's not even funny. Last year's team was underestimated, no doubt, but this year's squad looks like a 50 win and first round exit team if I've ever seen one. That may be good enough for you, but I kind of expect more.

Considering that's what they've been for 20 years, are you really expecting more than that?

 

[Gaddabout]

Actually, I'm feeling better about the Suns because they didn't overpay for Amare and they haven't had any Marcus Banks-type signings that I can tell. No one's under contract for a really long time and the budget is spread out, meaning they can move pieces as they see fit.

I think what Hollinger sees as doom and gloom is really just the middle of transition.

Now, whether or not you think the FO is actually capable of transforming this team, that's another question entirely.

 

[Errntknght]

In terms of players we're suffering from the blight of the D'Antoni years - with he and Sarver's weaknesses combining so disastrously. Our drafting isn't looking all that bad in retrospect and this is after years of the scouting and evaluation forces being held impotent, with nothing to do. Ranking 15th is probably about right, though. If the coaches can pull off a minor miracle in channeling Clark's talent that would be a nice boost.

Heck, if inserting Babby in the chain of command signals that Sarver intends to curtail his meddling that's a positive move. Of course, until we find out how it all works out its nothing but question marks. I'm going to consider it a faint ray of light until then. For the intermediate term we have a good coach, who appears quite capable of learning on the fly. I guess coaches are never considered long term pluses or minuses, and for the most part, rightly so.

We can't do anything about our market and the money won't change until Sarver sells the team. (I'm hopeful he will as soon as he can turn a reasonable profit.)

If next year is the upheaval many of us are expecting, that could play dice with everyone's long term outlook.

If Miami turns into a long term (6 years) juggernaut, it will a good time to be rebuilding, and we're right on pace for that.

 

[dodie53]

i thought the suns FO offered amare the max but 2 yrs are not guaranteed.

 

[SweetD]

you dug yourself a hole that's going to be tough to get out of. I'll start with 2004 to the present:

Lakers: Vujacic, Byrum, Turiaf, Farmar, Toney Douglas. thats every first rounder they've picked besides Crittenton and some foreigner have made the regular rotation. Everyone of them have played a role in the Lakers getting where they are in some form or another. Not stars, but decent quality role players.

Celtics: its pretty hard to gauge them. they've had a BUNCH of quality players used with their picks. Tony Allen, Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Jeff Green, Randy Foye. but much of that talent was traded away getting Hall of Famers.

Suns: Barbosa, Lopez, Dragic. that's it. its funny though. a BUNCH of quality talent has been just flat out given away with suns picks, but nothing traded back such as in the case with the Celtics. its disturbing. And for the most part what we've held onto has be crap.

But none of the players you mentioned are with the team, what I am saying the Suns picks are actualy with the team still other have not stayed with them. Unless you also want to talk about 2nd rounders that are not even playing in the league that many on this board wanted to keep.

 

[SweetD]

So you're content with the team using all its cap space on long term deals, thereby eliminating any flexibility to add the players that can either help beat the Lakers or at least wait them out?

The Suns, right now, are so seriously flawed as a roster it's not even funny. Last year's team was underestimated, no doubt, but this year's squad looks like a 50 win and first round exit team if I've ever seen one. That may be good enough for you, but I kind of expect more.

What long term deal would hinder the team?? Only long term deal is Hedo that is over 10 Mil, Fry's 6Mil a year is a going rate everyone else is below 5 a year. Nash and JRich are the only contracts hindering the Suns from bring in top salaries. The West got weaker this year so why would the Suns be a 50 win team? Just becouse the Suns didn't keep Amare then I think you might have over valued Amare's production. I think the combo of Fry, Warrick & Hedo will be able to make up the differance. I am not saying they will be in the West Conf Finals, that will be up to seatings just like last year. I still feel the Lakers are a better team every other West team is in the same boat now, there is no clear #2. The East will be much tougher with all the Bigs moving back East.

 

[SweetD]

We can't do anything about our market and the money won't change until Sarver sells the team. (I'm hopeful he will as soon as he can turn a reasonable profit.)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THAT IS IT>>>>>>>>>

Ok this is BS I am going to put it out there. I do alot of business with the Suns and have for years. Yes Jerry ran this team different, but I can tell you the bottom line was ALWAYS number one. But it was also different times with a the CBA and different types of players. He cut corners like every businessman does. The fans may not see it but his employees and sponsers see it.

Sarver want to WIN and WILL put a great product out there for his partners and fans. But these are diffent times not many players like Rodney Roggers, D. Manning and others will play for the vet min. No longer can you have a player like Mark West making so little or KJ coming out of retirement. Kerr was an cornholio to his employees and to the organization he was brought in to turn this organization in the Spurs but he was not the right guy and changes had to be made.

For bench player that is overvauled by fans there are real issues why the team does not keep them around. For example when the Suns thought they had two big men to build with .... Ala Big Jake and Danny Shais (sp) Big Jake had plantar fasciitis, Danny had a very bad back. Niether played well after that year. There is ALOT that goes on that the fans just don't know about.

Know your history if your a fan then learn what your talking about instead of every year say this team sucks and is not going to do jack.

 

[Sunburn]

One quality big away. . .

 

[Irish]

Hollinger is a horse's rear end.

I wonder how many teams with only one non-playoff team since 2004 and that team won 47 games. Was this all due to Amare?

Hollinger is one of those "analysts" who think a team is just a collection of individual stats.