ESPN: Manning to AZ best fit for all

[MrYeahBut]

Oh totally. Very much agree. I'm just as much a ******* as the next guy, sometimes more so. There's dudes on here that have watched football longer than I've been alive and just laugh and laugh at my (and others) idiocy. No doubt.

I have no way to judge whether Grimm is a good coach or not other that what I see on the field. So far the results have been disappointing to say the least, imo. If it's Grimm or Whiz or Graves or some combination, I don't know and I don't care. I just want them to succeed and let them go if they can't make it happen.

 

[Darkside]

I have no way to judge whether Grimm is a good coach or not other that what I see on the field. So far the results have been disappointing to say the least, imo. If it's Grimm or Whiz or Graves or some combination, I don't know and I don't care. I just want them to succeed and let them go if they can't make it happen.

Oh I agree it's been pathetic. I think we have one of the worst offensive lines in the league. I'm merely defending Grimm in culpability. People say he sucks and I find that hard to believe, given what he's been dealt. It appears to be a design choice by Whis and Graves to coach up lesser talent. There's no way we can know, no possible way, how much Grimm has coached up this heaping pile of crap we call an offensive line. He may have coached them to their max potential, but we can't tell. Nobody can tell. My point is it shouldn't be blamed on Grimm, because it's by design.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I think he's got some input, as I said, he gets to pick the best out of a crap of choices. Look, I'm not saying he's blameless, I'm merely saying he isn't the problem with the O-line. People get on Grimm without having a clue, any freaking clue whatsoever, what they're talking about.

I'll say again though, Grimm isn't the one putting up draft picks on their board. When they want to draft an O-lineman, in whatever round, then sure they talk to him and get input, obviously, but he's left with crap. And the Levi Brown pick, show me where Grimm made that pick, because it didn't happen. I'd like a link. Everything I've read suggests that was a coaches pick, over AP.

You talk about his tenure with Pitt, didn't they win a SB with him, with one of the worst Olines in football, as you put it? Didn't Gerome Bettis have one of his best years in Pitt under Russ Grimm? He did. And he went out in style, winning a SB.

When you talk about throwing balls over Fitz head I have no clue what that has to do with the O line. I won't defend our O line because it's crap, as I've said, but Fitz being overthrown isn't Grimm's fault. You're reaching man.

You guys can blame Grimm for anything, and that's cool. It's just another topic. Next week we'll be arguing about how Whis sucks, or Graves sucks. But you know what I really enjoy? The fact that you ****'s expect to win now, instead of the loser mentality before 07 and 08. Carry on.

I specified 'pass-blocking' in reference to his tenure with the Steelers. Their run game was good, but the pass blocking was atrocious. If you look at Grimm's teams, whether it be with the Steelers or AZ, his O-Lines are typically in the bottom 10 in reference to sacks and/or QB hits given up.

If you watch pre-games at all, you will see Grimm throwing the ball over Fitz's head. Was a sarcastic remark to show that he has made a bigger contribution throwing a ball to Fitz than he has coaching the O-Line

 

[Dr. Jones]

Really, you don't think Levi or Keith has improved at all? First of all, Levi is in the wrong position, out of necessity, and that's something that had to be done. And Keith is one of our best offensive lineman when he's healthy. Doesn't make him good, it makes him the best out of a pile of sh*t.

Levi in particular is under-rated. He's primarily a run blocker, and primarily on the right side, rather than the left, but by necessity he had to be moved to the left side.

To be honest, I don't really care if you have faith in his scouting or projecting or anything else. He went to the HOF as an offensive lineman. He's one of the Hogs man. Whereas you merely spend time criticizing something you obviously don't understand. I trust his analysis alot more than yours, to be frank.

You're talking about not seeing any improvement, how much do you even watch the Olineman during a game? Aside from some idiot getting beat? What do you know about foot placement, hip rotation, center of gravity, holding and leverage? Please do share. I would appreciate it if you could enlighten the rest of us.

1. Wrong..... We moved him over there on purpose.

2. Usually the best players make the worst coaches.

3. God I hope he is better than me.

4. As a fan I am entitled to my opinion. As a fan, you are entitled to yours. Giving you my qualifications is juvenile and has no place on the internet. I could be Ron Wolfley..... Or I could be a pre-pubescent 9 year old in a basement in Hong Kong.


Trust me..... I believe the criticism is justified.
-Levi Brown being drafted at #5. Grimm loved him pre-draft. Multiple articles stated it. They called him a LT the year he was at RT. When Gandy retired they moved him. Performance be damned.
-Oliver Ross & Al Johnson. He and Whiz brought him here. Do you think Whiz didnt consult with Grimm about Ross?
-Keith was touted as Grimm's "project" a few years ago. Personally, I am not impressed.
-Lyle has gotten better.... Some credit is due here.
-Moving Wells to guard when he was a solid RT for us the year prior.

 

[Dr. Jones]

We should also note that when it comes to improving players, when you're given players with a lack of talent, their ceiling for improvement is short. Some people say, "He didn't improve..." such and such, but the fact is, when you're dealing with poor talent, that ceiling is small. Grimm could have improved dudes to the best of their ability, and just because he didn't make them all pro doesn't mean he didn't take them as far as they could go.

Again..... He brought in Levi and wanted Keith as a project. What more could we do for him?

In return we had the worst set of starting tackles in the league.

 

[Stout]

Darkside, others have already highlighted his poor personnel opinions on this thread. I'll go another route. When we routinely have linemen ignoring free rushers in a FOUR MAN rush, and then are told it isn't the player's fault, that the play was schemed that way, and when that is ROUTINE...well, blame falls directly on the O-line coach. Grimm is awful.

 

[RedRob]

It's all a matter of perspective, having watched too many Cardinal football games I can tell you that what you've seen out of the o-line over the last few years is far better than what's been thrown out there in the past. If you desire to make Tosh.o throw a VCR tape of...pick any game in the 90's...focus on the o-line and you'll puke stuff out of your system that's laid dormant for years.

Darkside has a good point, I don't see the Card's organization cherry picking top free agents and or top draft picks since Grimm has been here save Brown.

I'm not arguing that Grimm is a good coach, my point is the hatred spilled here towards him is over the top and indicative of the typical internet driven feeding frenzy all too often displayed.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm not a Grimm fan but the Cards haven't used the draft to acquire OL talent very well. They haven't drafted an OL above round 6 since Lutui and Levi.

 

[JeffGollin]

I have no way to judge whether Grimm is a good coach or not other that what I see on the field. So far the results have been disappointing to say the least, imo. If it's Grimm or Whiz or Graves or some combination, I don't know and I don't care. I just want them to succeed and let them go if they can't make it happen.

Count me in on the above statement.

Point is - something isn't working.

But I can't resist speculating that - on the list of Cardinal personnel priorities, both OT's have gotten short shrift; either because (a) we had what were considered bigger needs at other positions, (b) the FA list of affordable OT's sucked or (c) the BPA's in each high round never included offensive tackles. (Note - I take the OG off the hook because we have signed guys like Faneca, Hadnot and Colledge in recent years - not that they've been All Pros).

I'm also guessing that, inside those discussions, Russ Grim played the role of "loyal trooper" and said something along the lines of "that's OK; I can work with the guys we've got." If so, this has got to stop. Noble as it might be, it's hurting the football team.

Maybe it's time for Russ to stand up and make a strong case for getting us 2 or 3 quality OT's.

 

[oaken1]

Darkside, others have already highlighted his poor personnel opinions on this thread. I'll go another route. When we routinely have linemen ignoring free rushers in a FOUR MAN rush, and then are told it isn't the player's fault, that the play was schemed that way, and when that is ROUTINE...well, blame falls directly on the O-line coach. Grimm is awful.

this is something I have been wondering about myself.....who exactly teaches them where to block for each play?? The o-line coach....or the offensive coordinator??

When I watch the guys block, fundamentally they block well...good foot position, nice leverage...but they block the wrong guy........why does Levi block down on a DT and totally ignore the DE or OLB right in front of him??..lol,...perfect form while blocking down,...just not the right defender....and we have a free rusher....

would be nice to know who is teaching the blocking assignments for each play.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

this is something I have been wondering about myself.....who exactly teaches them where to block for each play?? The o-line coach....or the offensive coordinator??

When I watch the guys block, fundamentally they block well...good foot position, nice leverage...but they block the wrong guy........why does Levi block down on a DT and totally ignore the DE or OLB right in front of him??..lol,...perfect form while blocking down,...just not the right defender....and we have a free rusher....

would be nice to know who is teaching the blocking assignments for each play.

What I know about 0-line blocking schemes could be written on the back of a cigarette pack with a warning not to pay any attention to what I say. But, that said - it's the centre and QB who are responsible, to the best of my knowledge, for giving blocking assignments on any given play. Blocking down, I would imagine, is often a decoy play.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

If we get Manning, I want at least 4 games in the retro unis. IND has a very traditional uniform - blue and white. Our old unis are great-looking, old school unis. Aside from the fact that I need a new "old school" Cards hat, I think it would be cool to have Manning and the Cards in the old unis for a significant portion of the season....

 

[BigRedFan]

Whether it's the OL coach or the players or both, the bottom line is the Cardinals gave up 54 sacks, 2nd last in the league only to the lambs with 55. This doesn't sound like a perfect fit to me. In comparison the 1975 Cardinals gave up 7.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Originally Posted by MrYeahbut
Being in the HOF doesn't automatically make you a good coach...

Sincerely,
Greene, Mean Joe

You could add Mike Singletary in there. Or Jim Zorn (not sure if anyone remembers him). Fair enough. My point was that I trust his knowledge more than some guy coming at me on a message board.

I remember Zorn quite well. I don't, however, remember him making it to the HOF.

Steve

 

[chickenhead]

If we get Manning, I want at least 4 games in the retro unis. IND has a very traditional uniform - blue and white. Our old unis are great-looking, old school unis. Aside from the fact that I need a new "old school" Cards hat, I think it would be cool to have Manning and the Cards in the old unis for a significant portion of the season....

Yes! I am totally on board with this. It would look right. Btw, it is weird that the Cards, Dolphins, Jets, and Titans have been four of the rumored teams for Peyton. If the Chargers didn't have Rivers and the Bills hadn't extended Fitzpatrick, we could have had all the white-helmeted teams in the theoretical hunt.

 

[oaken1]

What I know about 0-line blocking schemes could be written on the back of a cigarette pack with a warning not to pay any attention to what I say. But, that said - it's the centre and QB who are responsible, to the best of my knowledge, for giving blocking assignments on any given play. Blocking down, I would imagine, is often a decoy play.

right,...so if Brown is blocking down....he is most likely being told to do so....either by the QB...or when the center makes the line calls...

It has had me thinking that our center and our QB are not seeing the same things,....because if the center is calling for the tackle to crash, then the QB should be bringing over a TE or slot WR to pick up the free rusher........something is amiss in the chicken coop

 

[Duckjake]

It's all a matter of perspective, having watched too many Cardinal football games I can tell you that what you've seen out of the o-line over the last few years is far better than what's been thrown out there in the past. If you desire to make Tosh.o throw a VCR tape of...pick any game in the 90's...focus on the o-line and you'll puke stuff out of your system that's laid dormant for years.

Darkside has a good point, I don't see the Card's organization cherry picking top free agents and or top draft picks since Grimm has been here save Brown.

I'm not arguing that Grimm is a good coach, my point is the hatred spilled here towards him is over the top and indicative of the typical internet driven feeding frenzy all too often displayed.

Lyle Sendlein has started at Center since the last two games of 2007, 66 consecutive games. Levi Brown has started 75 games for the Cardinals. Duece Lutui started 72 games for Arizona. Colledge has started 92 games in the NFL. Rex Hadnot has started 93 games. Sendlein, Lutui and Brown started in the Super Bowl. If these guys were the trash Darkside claims they are they wouldn't have those numbers.

Grimm is the problem. We aren't football morons as much as some posters like to believe. We watch the games and replays and see the defenders coming in unblocked because no one was assigned to block them game after game year after year with the only constant being Russ Grimm.

 

[nashman]

Someone just rename this thread it really has very little to do with manning, just a long drawn out argument over oline geesh