Evidence For No TD

[Buckybird]

Total crap. If the Cards were on the other end....the outcome would be the same. The rule states the evidence has to be irrefutable to reverse the call. The call on the field was TD. The play should have stood by rule.

Again, this one play didn't cost them the game and they had plenty of chances througout the game and that drive for that matter that could have negated the game coming down to that play.

So, if Holmes' catch is called no catch on the field would it have been over-turned? I don't think so. That call was so close, but I still say his right foot never touched the ground. The right foot stayed about an inch above the left throughout the play.

 

[Buckybird]

That picture STILL doesn't convince me! It's tough (for me) to tell whether the right toe is touching the turf.

However, THIS picture does convince me that it was a TD: http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/FanBoy/45253

...dave

Really? Look again!!! If his right foot is 1-2 inches above the other and his left toe is down, how does the right one touch? Does Holmes have one foot longer than the other?

 

[dylanbw]

The Holmes TD catch is a perfect example of why I, and many others, are pissed. To me, the call could have gone either way. Since it was ruled a TD live, I don't think there was enough to overturn it. If it had been ruled incomplete, I could see just as much of an argument for not overturning that call. I think it's too close to take away. I say good catch.

The problem is, the officials took all the time in the world to make sure they got it right. They didn't leave it up to the booth official. They gave all the gazillions of people watching an opportunity to see every angle and slo-mo and NBC zoom or whatever. On the Cardinals critical play, the did not. And to compound that, I would really like to agree that it was clear that Warner did indeed lose control of the ball and just slapped it forward by accident.

I don't see it that way and I think it was close enough that the referee might agree with me. If the apparent excitement and rush to start the celebration wasn't a factor and the play was reviewed with the time that it deserves, the multiple angles, the NBC zoom, etc. I think a case could be made that while the defender gets a nice slap at the ball, his hand comes off of the ball and Warner still has it in his grip. The Steeler has his arm on Warner's arm as it stars coming forward and that's where he lets it go. At the very least, it's up to interpretation when his arm started coming forward. Warner maintains control for some period of time and it could have been viewed either way.

It deserved the same scrutiny that the Holmes TD got.

Agreed. He briefly lost his grip due to one hand hitting the ball, but regained it and sort of "shot-putted" the ball forward.....Incomplete Pass!!

Also, is there a true definitive shot that shows Holmes right foot down with possession? I was at the game, what replay did the fans at home see?

 

[moklerman]

I never got a definitive look. Most of the replays were from above and the one ground level shot was pretty far away. The stills that I've seen where his right foot seems to be touching, the ball is completely obscured by Franciso's worthless dead weight.

Overall, I wouldn't take that play down to the millimeter like that. I think he tapped both toes so close to when he had possession of the ball, had such good control of the ball and never bobbled it on the way down that it was a good catch. Now maybe...maybe his right toe tapped a micro-second before he had the catch but I don't think so. If that was Fitz or Boldin or Breaston I would certainly have called it a catch.

I didn't want it to happen and think Holmes is a POS but that was a helluva catch.

 

[BCEagle]

Really? Look again!!! If his right foot is 1-2 inches above the other and his left toe is down, how does the right one touch? Does Holmes have one foot longer than the other?

Ball in hands. Right toe down. Left toe down. (See image at the bottom of that page.) Right toe comes up and drags over left foot as Holmes is pushed into a twisting motion. Touchdown.

 

[Buckybird]

need more evidence?

 

[Buckybird]

and the last. I zoomed in on this shot. If you download the small pic you can zoom in even more. Appears off the ground to me.

 

[BCEagle]

In this case, the last image was the first in the chronological sequence. As you can see, Holmes has the ball, and both feet are down. The only question is did he maintain control of the ball, which I think he did.

TD.

 

[LukesDad88]

There it is, right in Buckybirds pictures. Ignore pics #1 & #2, it's impossible to tell the timing of those still photos. Also, he mixed up the order on the others, but you can see the progression:

Pic 4: Holmes with left foot down and bent at an angle. Right toe appears to be touching. Defender approaching, contact imminent. Did Holmes posess the ball? That's the question. I watched the replay again, and Holmes had posession before being hit. Which means TD

Pics 3 & 5 are almost simultaneous following Pic 4.

 

[Buckybird]

In this case, the last image was the first in the chronological sequence. As you can see, Holmes has the ball, and both feet are down. The only question is did he maintain control of the ball, which I think he did.

TD.

NOPE!!! Download the pic and zoom in. His toe is off the ground.

 

[daves]

Really? Look again!!! If his right foot is 1-2 inches above the other and his left toe is down, how does the right one touch? Does Holmes have one foot longer than the other?

Ugh... now you've got me leaning toward thinking that his right foot IS still off the ground, even in the picture that briefly had me convinced otherwise.

Since his right foot is closer to the camera in that picture, if it were touching the same plane as the left foot, the toe would be closer to the bottom of the frame. But the left toe is closer to the bottom of the frame, so the right toe must be slightly above the ground.

Oh well.

...dave

 

[BCEagle]

NOPE!!! Download the pic and zoom in. His toe is off the ground.

Let it go. The tip of his right shoe disappears into the turf. It was a catch and a TD. Your sequence of images is the best proof yet.

And you can see that pictures 1 and 2 happened after the fact -- look where the defender's arm is on Holmes' back in relation to the last one.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Anything that takes this level of detail and 10 pages of debate is anything but clear. Thus you stay with the ruling on the field.

 

[conraddobler]

Anything that takes this level of detail and 10 pages of debate is anything but clear. Thus you stay with the ruling on the field.

It takes a few days for the truth not to hurt so bad but yes, I agree.

We lost in a hugely close game after a magical season, Fitz was even going no no no no no.

It was crushing and it was so close, it's not just like we just got there and then got blown out, no we had the lead with what 40 seconds left?

OH man I depressed myself again.

 

[moklerman]

BuckyBird, I think the last close-up shot that you provided is a little late in terms of possession. To be fair, I think the evidence, if you really want to play around with debating it, should start just before the ball is in his hands and go from there. Otherwise, all of these shots of his feet or after the fact.

 

[Russ Smith]

McNabb would have been fine if he had gone to the Eagles bench and used the phone. He immediately went on the opponents sideline for his act. Different circumstances. Under your definition every time a player held their helmet up high to celebrate a big play they could be flagged. The Steelers would be flagged multiple times in every game if that were true since players regularly twirl the terrible towel. Holmes didn't do his routine until after the replay results were in and the steelers were lining up for the extra point. I don't even think an official could see him.

I also think the rule is stupid except in a case like McNabb's. To me to go on the opponents sideline or even when TO went to stomp on the Dallas star at midfield is unsportsmanlike. I also think the 'taking off the helmet rule' is stupid. Who cares as long as it isn't safety related.

In case it hasn't been said enough ... props to the Cardinals on the excellent season. I think they are poised to have many more.

My point was that being on the sideline didn't matter. AS it turns out the refs are saying they didn't see it, or they would have flagged Santonio.

I hate the celebration rules I like players emoting after a great play myself.

But they did say it should have been penalized, they just didn't see it. Fine with me.

I'm not one that thinks we got hosed, since I've seen the angles that appear to show it was indeed a catch, I have no issues we should have stopped them and couldn't, that's on us not the refs.

 

[Russ Smith]

Really? Look again!!! If his right foot is 1-2 inches above the other and his left toe is down, how does the right one touch? Does Holmes have one foot longer than the other?

Because the left foot is bent, the toes are pushed into the ground from his weight but the right foot it's just the toe touching.

At least that's how it looks to me.