F@#! Tim Thomas

[devilfan02]

Ban me for all I care...... I hate anyone who runs their mouth, uses the word "********" in reference to them being so stupid to leave a championship caliber team, then signs fpr a couple mill more after he cashed out when he got cut by headcase Skiles. F TT, he can crash and burn in the same bus with JJ, Sexson, Glaus, Sim Rice, ....... This is comin from the heart but mostly the jager bombs. Screw anyone who b;ounces on P-H-X, especially when we're gettin our ring this time next year

 

[Sir Charles Barfbag]

Hey, TT has to feed his family with all that $$ he got for doing nothing last year before going to PHX. And it took him only 5 minutes to take the Clips offer and run....ya know, he needs that extra 2-5 million over 5 years to feed his family.

Hope he enjoys playing with the Clips the next few years when they barely win 40 games a year.......they're the Clips you know......one good year doesn't = dynasty when you're the Clips.

Look - considering his career and attitude long-term, we're probably lucky not to have him coming back......consider what he did in the playoffs last year a gift.......and know for certain he won't be doing that anywhere else.

If the Suns can make a POS like him into a good player, and they've already done that with countless other spare-parts who fit our system, we'll be fine with whatever 1-2 players we bring in to replace that ******** POS Tim Thomas. Hey, he said he'd be ********....and now he is. Stupid MF'er.......could've signed on for 2 years just to win it all and THEN cash in on another contract.

Whatever. He's an admitted ******. That's how we should all address him from now on.

 

[Joe Mama]

3 years, $12 million
4 years, $24 million

Even if you figure that he could get another year or two at $3 million per afternoon each of these contracts is that that would mean $15 million vs. $24 million. He's also going to a top team in the conference. It's not like he's running to a loser team for more money.

Lastly, I think Tim Thomas could see that when Amare Stoudemire and Kurt Thomas are healthy his minutes will be quite limited here.

Joe

 

[Louis]

All great points Joe.

Hopefully some who are upset with TT's decision realize that James Jones is still on the roster.

Jones is virtually the same player, just younger, more athletic, a better defender, and a better rebounder.

Did anybody expect any different from TT? First he said he'd be back because he wanted a ring so money wasn't an issue. Then he said he'd be back if the offer was "fair".

Arn Tellum (Joe Johnson's agent) represents him, so no surprise there.

It's pretty hilarious though that the Suns used the excuse of trading away draft picks saved them money that they could use to sign TT. Then they get outbid by a guy once known as the cheapest owner in the league.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Glaus

Glaus was traded.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's pretty hilarious though that the Suns used the excuse of trading away draft picks saved them money that they could use to sign TT. Then they get outbid by a guy once known as the cheapest owner in the league.

Yes, this is the irony, as a fan, when the Suns let TT go.

No draft picks, no TT and the Suns are looking at 35 year old players.

Are the Suns going to invest in the team... using the MLE, trade options, TE, etc.

It now seems like the Suns are saying they will be over the luxury next season if they use money on a player much over the veteran minimum. I really don't think next season poses a luxury tax issue... I could be wrong. However, I think the Suns could move salary after next season is over and still get a quality player this year. Everyone knows the NBA has become a juggling act to be financially responsible.

However, do the Suns know how to juggle or willing to spend at least up to the luxury tax threshold in a given year?

This is no longer about TT, but whether the Suns have become the old Clippers or the old Cardinal football team run by an accountant just looking at the bottom line not aware that salaries have to be manuevered like a homeowner trying to pay the bills.

 

[KloD]

It's not that I believed him, but he did say he's made more than enough money. Does he think the Clippers can win it all? I'm very disappointed he jumped at the bigger check than the brighter future. So piss off Tim Thomas you ******.

 

[George O'Brien]

There had been a lot of discussion about possibly moving Jones to clear enough below the luxury tax to get TT. Based on the Suns offer, they weren't willing to do that.

Jones has the potential to become another Udonis Haslem but with three point range, ie a smallish inside guy who gets by wtih hustle.

 

[Joe Mama]

Yes, this is the irony, as a fan, when the Suns let TT go.

No draft picks, no TT and the Suns are looking at 35 year old players.

Are the Suns going to invest in the team... using the MLE, trade options, TE, etc.

It now seems like the Suns are saying they will be over the luxury next season if they use money on a player much over the veteran minimum. I really don't think next season poses a luxury tax issue... I could be wrong. However, I think the Suns could move salary after next season is over and still get a quality player this year. Everyone knows the NBA has become a juggling act to be financially responsible.

However, do the Suns know how to juggle or willing to spend at least up to the luxury tax threshold in a given year?

This is no longer about TT, but whether the Suns have become the old Clippers or the old Cardinal football team run by an accountant just looking at the bottom line not aware that salaries have to be manuevered like a homeowner trying to pay the bills.

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

I know the Republic said that Tim Thomas' would have taken them over the luxury tax by approximately $1 million, but I don't think that's accurate. I think it would have taken them over by at least $2 million. Keep in mind that's before they even fill out the rest of the roster.

I know the tendency is to blame this all in the cheap owner, but I think it's more likely that this was a management decision.

Joe

 

[Goldfield]

I was under the impression that the MLE was exempt from the luxury tax penalties. Am I wrong?

 

[KloD]

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

I know the Republic said that Tim Thomas' would have taken them over the luxury tax by approximately $1 million, but I don't think that's accurate. I think it would have taken them over by at least $2 million. Keep in mind that's before they even fill out the rest of the roster.

I know the tendency is to blame this all in the cheap owner, but I think it's more likely that this was a management decision.

Joe

Good point Joe. This is a business and ownership can't or better shouldn't be expected to bow to every players $$$ demands. TT said it wasn't about money, then said money is not the main motivator...we should have known it was going to be in the end. Oh well...

 

[newfan101]

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

I know the Republic said that Tim Thomas' would have taken them over the luxury tax by approximately $1 million, but I don't think that's accurate. I think it would have taken them over by at least $2 million. Keep in mind that's before they even fill out the rest of the roster.

I know the tendency is to blame this all in the cheap owner, but I think it's more likely that this was a management decision.

Joe

I'm not sure those numbers are correct Joe. According to Hoopshype, the Suns are at 58,563,115, INCLUDING Diaw, Barbosa and Howard Eisley. When you take away Eisley's money (amnesty), it's at a little over 56,000,00, meaning they have over 6 1/2 million to spend before hitting the luxury tax. Now, when you consider that they were going to have to fill 5 additional roster spots AFTER Thomas, then yes, they were going to go over the tax with that offer. However, trading two low salaried draft picks didn't really "SAVE" anything, since they combine to equal roughly the same amount as a minimum salaried veteran.

My bet is that if they sign anyone close to the MLE, then James Jones will be gone for a future pick and cash. The numbers just aren't adding up to keep the team under the tax without another giveaway.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

Since Diaw and Barbosa are not restricted free agents until next year, the Suns don't make qualifying offers to them until after next season - it's not relevant now. They are under contract this season, and their cap hits equal their salaries. The season after next is obviously a different story.

 

[Mainstreet]

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

I know the Republic said that Tim Thomas' would have taken them over the luxury tax by approximately $1 million, but I don't think that's accurate. I think it would have taken them over by at least $2 million. Keep in mind that's before they even fill out the rest of the roster.

I know the tendency is to blame this all in the cheap owner, but I think it's more likely that this was a management decision.

Joe

Joe, maybe I'm confused here. But I didn't think the impact of extending Barbosa and Diaw would impact the Suns this upcoming season. In other words their extensions would only impact the Suns with the luxury tax going forward after next season.

I'm not into the Sarver bashing thing yet although I can see why some Suns fans are. The Suns seem to say one thing and do the other... like saying they are saving money by not using their first round draft picks to sign TT. The Suns management should have not said this if they did not mean it. I was not locked into the re-signing of TT but really a 4 year, 20 million dollar contract (as reported on TV this morning) was only to be expected by some team.

I was under the impression the Suns could bring in at least one quality player using near the MLE (or via trade) to fill an area of need for the Suns this season.

I realize the Suns might have to trade some salary after this coming season, but isn't one good Championship run worth it? This coming season may be the Suns best chance to win a Championship. Also KT's contract expires after two more seasons giving the Suns some relief.

 

[Mainstreet]

Since Diaw and Barbosa are not restricted free agents until next year, the Suns don't make qualifying offers to them until after next season - it's not relevant now. They are under contract this season, and their cap hits equal their salaries. The season after next is obviously a different story.

We agree.

Edit:

Certainly I want Barbosa and Diaw extended if at all possible this season.

 

[newfan101]

I think Joe was basing his original numbers off of NEXT years salaries. Diaw and Barbosa are already factored in.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Ban me for all I care...... I hate anyone who runs their mouth, uses the word "********" in reference to them being so stupid to leave a championship caliber team, then signs fpr a couple mill more after he cashed out when he got cut by headcase Skiles. F TT, he can crash and burn in the same bus with JJ, Sexson, Glaus, Sim Rice, ....... This is comin from the heart but mostly the jager bombs. Screw anyone who b;ounces on P-H-X, especially when we're gettin our ring this time next year

How dare you!!!



You forgot to mention Antonio McDyess, in the F off list.


I hate Tim Thomas, I'm glad he is missing out on next years ring

 

[George O'Brien]

You forgot to mention Antonio McDyess, in the F off list.

The Suns probably could have kept Dice if they had used the money they put into Q for him. Of course, the fact that the Pistons had a championship contending team meant a lot when Dice left the Suns. But considering his history of injuries, that would have been a huge gamble. Still it remains a classic "what might have been".

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was under the impression that the MLE was exempt from the luxury tax penalties. Am I wrong?

That depends on your question. For cap purposes (not lux tax) the MLE is added to your salaries unless your renounce it. So a team can't get 12 million under the cap, sign a max player, and THEN use their MLE to sign an additional player.

The MLE doesn't count against the luxury tax just because its available. It only counts when you actually use it. Otherwise EVERY team would use their MLE, because it counts against them any way.

Think of this way. The SALARY cap threshold is a soft cap. There are all kinds of exceptions that allow you to go above it (LLE, MLE, Bird Rights, trade exceptions etc.)

The Luxury Tax threshold is a HARD number. They add up your team payroll, and if you are over, you pay.

 

[JCSunsfan]

the Phoenix Suns are at $56.8 million next season BEFORE you figure qualifying offers for Boris Diaw and Barbosa. Those qualifying offers will total just over $5 million, so BEFORE they signed anyone else but their core of 8 players they will have a team salary $61.8 million. The luxury tax limit is expected to be around $63 million.

I know the Republic said that Tim Thomas' would have taken them over the luxury tax by approximately $1 million, but I don't think that's accurate. I think it would have taken them over by at least $2 million. Keep in mind that's before they even fill out the rest of the roster.

I know the tendency is to blame this all in the cheap owner, but I think it's more likely that this was a management decision.

Joe

Joe, Barbosa and Diaw are still under their rookie deals for next year. We don't have to extend qualifying offers to them until the fall of 2007, when they hit restricted free agency.

Right now, with 10 players under contract, we are at 59.4 million for the 06/07 year.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

 

[newfan101]

Joe, Barbosa and Diaw are still under their rookie deals for next year. We don't have to extend qualifying offers to them until the fall of 2007, when they hit restricted free agency.

Right now, with 10 players under contract, we are at 59.4 million for the 06/07 year.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix.htm

Actually, their math is wrong, and those figures include Howard Eisley. The actual salary is 58,563,115. When you subtract Eisley, whose salary doesn't count due to the amnesty provision, its 56,363,115 for 9 players under contract.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Actually, their math is wrong, and those figures include Howard Eisley. The actual salary is 58,563,115. When you subtract Eisley, whose salary doesn't count due to the amnesty provision, its 56,363,115 for 9 players under contract.

That's right, I forgot to take Eisley out. We don't count him against the lux tax because of the one time amnesty clause last summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

Actually, their math is wrong, and those figures include Howard Eisley. The actual salary is 58,563,115. When you subtract Eisley, whose salary doesn't count due to the amnesty provision, its 56,363,115 for 9 players under contract.

So the Suns have roughly 7 million dollars (63M - 56M) to work with before they reach the luxury tax, if I understand it correctly. Also they were willing to inch over it per D'Antoni for TT.

I'm thinking the Suns have the room to add at least one quality player at a position of need not even factoring in a trade and then add some veteran minimum type players.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So the Suns have roughly 7 million dollars (63M - 56M) to work with before they reach the luxury tax, if I understand it correctly. Also they were willing to inch over it per D'Antoni for TT.

I'm thinking the Suns have the room to add at least one quality player at a position of need not even factoring in a trade and then add some veteran minimum type players.

They have to add 4 players to the payroll to reach the minimum of 13. I assume they were pencilling in 3 vet mins at 1 mill a piece, plus TT at a little less than 4 million.

That hoopshype number might be wrong too. Some other sites have KT's number for this year higher.

The actual tax # is also an unknown right now. Teams are just estimating what it it will be.

 

[Griffin]

So the Suns have roughly 7 million dollars (63M - 56M) to work with before they reach the luxury tax, if I understand it correctly.

They only have the 5.4M mid-level exception to work with, along with minimum contracts. Remember that they are over the cap.